Help Purchasing A Leftover

gdnelis · March 31, 2010

Hi - quick introduction, new member, current owner of my second Dodge truck / 3rd Mopar vehicle and swore there would not be a fourth due to some quality issues I've grown tired of on my last three. Being a long time GM fan, the current generation of the GMC has won my vote so far on the replacement truck I'm shopping for. I apologize for being long winded, but I type a little too quick so posts go long...

Here is my deal. I have an underpowered, too small truck for what I'm using it for. The short wheelbase and 4.7 motor in my Ram 1500 make towing my 20' enclosed trailer (7000 lbs dual axle hauler) which typically is loaded up to around 4500-5500 a little painful. Too little power, too short of a wheelbase when it gets on the highway.

I run a marine canvas & upholstery business so I use the trailer to take the shop to boats too big to be towed or come out of the water for big jobs. I'd say the trailer weights around 3600 lbs empty and I add around 1400 lbs to it on average.

I was shopping for an 2010 extended cab / long bed GMC Sierra 2500 and stumbled across what I consider an oddball combination at a large dealer in my area (The lots are about picked over right now so even the larger dealers have very few trucks). So there was a 2009 Crew Cab 6.0 3500 dually with 3.73 gears... what I'll consider the reason its still on the lot in "April 2010." Now if I were buying this truck to tow its maximum capacity, this combination of motor and gears would make me pass on it just like everyone else has. The SLE trim with some nice features that fit my needs, not decked to the sky but a heck of a nice truck.

I'm going out to drive it tonight and I'm anticipated a pretty tough negotiation situation given its the last day of the month and this truck really needs to move from this lot. The window sticker is sitting on the seat telling me from my dealership days (detailer) that the truck was either a demo or a sale that fell through.

Before I get too ahead of myself, what are your thoughts on this combination on this truck? I do a fair amount of highway driving by the way, probably 50% actually. In addition to towing my trailer around, I also haul customer boats which I'll say can weigh between 7000-10,000 (have not gone that heavy, but plan to in the future). My towing is 25-30% of my business use with the truck during the summer season, so while it would obviously be nicer to have a diesel - please be realistic in my weight / usage before telling me the diesel is the only way to go since i'm not hauling around backhoes and heavy equipment (not to sound rude, I've been the "bigger is better" guy for suggesting others do what I couldn't afford as a dreamer but need reality for this one!).

Despite having two more tires and two more full size doors than I was shopping for, this is the truck I wanted. The dually is a "look at me" truck which will draw your eyes to the business logos I plan to tastefully plaster onto the white canvas of the truck so an eye grabber is a plus. Space is a concern in that I realize this truck is a yacht itself, but I have a 1800 sq/ft garage behind my house that doubles as my shop and my "parking space" has a 12'x16' door so when the shop isn't filled to capacity, I'll be able to keep this monstrosity in the garage.

First I'd like to hear your thoughts on the pros and cons of this truck's combination of motor / gears / chassis.

Secondly, I'd like to know what you'd pay for this truck. http://tinyurl.com/yl8x89o

The sticker is $44,865 and best I can calculate, invoice is somewhere around $40,500-41,500 from what I can tell and there are around $2500 in rebates on the truck. Given its age, I expect it to have a few demo miles on it at least. I'm looking at something around mid to upper mid 30's to consider it an option but would like your opinion. My main concern is this - I trade it in next year (theoretically) and its a two year old truck with 11k miles, not a 1 year old truck with 11k miles and the value will be much less than a 2010 with the same mileage a year from now. I've kept my last two trucks over 100,000 miles and will probably do the same with this one so I foresee it being in the fleet for 6-8 years so resale isn't my biggest concerns, but things change so I need to be aware of the hit this truck will take. Thoughts? Tips? Advice?

As I mentioned, I know this motor doesn't match the capacity of this chassis, but the 2010 Duramax with leather next to it is $10k more and i can't afford the sticker price on either of these trucks, only considering it because the dealer's internet negotiations have the price lower than invoice on a 2010 extended cab long bed I was looking at that was equally equipped.

Thanks for reading this - looking forward to being on this forum once I find a GM that fits my needs!

Greg

vester · March 31, 2010

How far will you be towing the boats? Just up the ramp and a few miles to storage or are you going to haul them through the mountains several hundred miles? IMO, towing power mainly becomes a concern on long trips with long steep grades. If you need to get a heavy boat up a steep ramp, you can always use 4-LO to get it up to level ground. If you were to get a diesel in the same price range, you would be comparing this truck to one that is several years old with some miles on it. The diesel will also cost you more in the long run in maintenance, but probably maintain its resale better.

Hi - quick introduction, new member, current owner of my second Dodge truck / 3rd Mopar vehicle and swore there would not be a fourth due to some quality issues I've grown tired of on my last three. Being a long time GM fan, the current generation of the GMC has won my vote so far on the replacement truck I'm shopping for. I apologize for being long winded, but I type a little too quick so posts go long...

Here is my deal. I have an underpowered, too small truck for what I'm using it for. The short wheelbase and 4.7 motor in my Ram 1500 make towing my 20' enclosed trailer (7000 lbs dual axle hauler) which typically is loaded up to around 4500-5500 a little painful. Too little power, too short of a wheelbase when it gets on the highway.

I run a marine canvas & upholstery business so I use the trailer to take the shop to boats too big to be towed or come out of the water for big jobs. I'd say the trailer weights around 3600 lbs empty and I add around 1400 lbs to it on average.

I was shopping for an 2010 extended cab / long bed GMC Sierra 2500 and stumbled across what I consider an oddball combination at a large dealer in my area (The lots are about picked over right now so even the larger dealers have very few trucks). So there was a 2009 Crew Cab 6.0 3500 dually with 3.73 gears... what I'll consider the reason its still on the lot in "April 2010." Now if I were buying this truck to tow its maximum capacity, this combination of motor and gears would make me pass on it just like everyone else has. The SLE trim with some nice features that fit my needs, not decked to the sky but a heck of a nice truck.

I'm going out to drive it tonight and I'm anticipated a pretty tough negotiation situation given its the last day of the month and this truck really needs to move from this lot. The window sticker is sitting on the seat telling me from my dealership days (detailer) that the truck was either a demo or a sale that fell through.

Before I get too ahead of myself, what are your thoughts on this combination on this truck? I do a fair amount of highway driving by the way, probably 50% actually. In addition to towing my trailer around, I also haul customer boats which I'll say can weigh between 7000-10,000 (have not gone that heavy, but plan to in the future). My towing is 25-30% of my business use with the truck during the summer season, so while it would obviously be nicer to have a diesel - please be realistic in my weight / usage before telling me the diesel is the only way to go since i'm not hauling around backhoes and heavy equipment (not to sound rude, I've been the "bigger is better" guy for suggesting others do what I couldn't afford as a dreamer but need reality for this one!).

Despite having two more tires and two more full size doors than I was shopping for, this is the truck I wanted. The dually is a "look at me" truck which will draw your eyes to the business logos I plan to tastefully plaster onto the white canvas of the truck so an eye grabber is a plus. Space is a concern in that I realize this truck is a yacht itself, but I have a 1800 sq/ft garage behind my house that doubles as my shop and my "parking space" has a 12'x16' door so when the shop isn't filled to capacity, I'll be able to keep this monstrosity in the garage.

First I'd like to hear your thoughts on the pros and cons of this truck's combination of motor / gears / chassis.

Secondly, I'd like to know what you'd pay for this truck. http://tinyurl.com/yl8x89o

The sticker is $44,865 and best I can calculate, invoice is somewhere around $40,500-41,500 from what I can tell and there are around $2500 in rebates on the truck. Given its age, I expect it to have a few demo miles on it at least. I'm looking at something around mid to upper mid 30's to consider it an option but would like your opinion. My main concern is this - I trade it in next year (theoretically) and its a two year old truck with 11k miles, not a 1 year old truck with 11k miles and the value will be much less than a 2010 with the same mileage a year from now. I've kept my last two trucks over 100,000 miles and will probably do the same with this one so I foresee it being in the fleet for 6-8 years so resale isn't my biggest concerns, but things change so I need to be aware of the hit this truck will take. Thoughts? Tips? Advice?

As I mentioned, I know this motor doesn't match the capacity of this chassis, but the 2010 Duramax with leather next to it is $10k more and i can't afford the sticker price on either of these trucks, only considering it because the dealer's internet negotiations have the price lower than invoice on a 2010 extended cab long bed I was looking at that was equally equipped.

Thanks for reading this - looking forward to being on this forum once I find a GM that fits my needs!

Greg

davzog · March 31, 2010

My 6.0L gas truck has 4.10 gears and is adequate with my 12,000# 5th wheel, excepting hills where is gears down and struggles some. I did change the tires from 16 to 17" with Hummer wheels, and that effectively changed my final drive ratio to about 3.90 or so....

So, it is still adequate for towing as it....towing our ponoon boat is a non-issue, and I haul a full ton of wood pellets in the bed a couple of times a year...

The 6.0L is a great engine, but you would be pulling more truck weight than I am, so towing capacity would be a tad less, I suppose.

The dually is just a "COOL" truck and is an eye catcher for advertising....Also, I believe (at least around here) that the resale is better on a dually, but it takes a special customer to buy it. I would like to have a dually, but have absolutely no need for one. We parked our 5th wheel in a park, and my truck is now a daily driver....a dually would be too inconvenient to park and drive around town, unless it was for a business like yours.

The fact that it is a year old would certainly be an issue if you were to trade it in soon, but if you keep it a few years it would wash out, again because it is a dually....would also depend on the miles like anything else. I am surce you could not buy a similar 2010 for the same price, and I bet the dealer would love to get rid of it....I purchased a couple of "year old" vehicles and never really got hurt. My daughter bought a 2009 Hyundai and got a great deal....she drives car until they stop!

I just reviewed the window sticker and it is very well equipped....

If I were in your position, I think I would go for it, assuming that you get a fair price....I would start negotiation at $32k and see where it goes. Remember, they are probably financing the truck and have to pay interest on it every month....the end of the month works often as a sales maker.

If you can do your job with a Dodge 1500 4.7, I suspect you will be much happier with the 6.0 dually....maybe not as happy as with a diesel or an 8.1 L gas, but still be better able to haul what you need.

If it has a few miles on it (demo) the price again comes down, and you can save a little more without a trade if you can swing that deal....I saved $900 I opted not to trade in my last truck....dealer does not have to prep it or finance it.

Overall, I say go for it....the worse that can happen is that you enjoy the truck and save some money and it will do probably everything you need....won't be a power house, but will be very adequate....good luck

Rat4go · March 31, 2010

I've towed 7K+ enclosed with a 2009 SRW 6.0L 3.73 2500 HD and it did pretty good. Keep in mind that the GM 6-speed has a monster 1st gear (4.03:1) so it should launch pretty decently compared to either the old 4L80 trans (2.5:1 first gear) or to the Dodge or Ford trans offerings with a ~3:1 first gear. Trans gear spacing is reasonable for towing (or at least it seemed like it to me). The 4-5 and 5-6 steps are smaller and my experience is that you'll likely run 5th on the highway when towing on the flats and the trans isn't too busy. The extra ratios help on the highway when towing as well....unless you're at WOT, you don't need to spin the snot out of the motor to pass someone. It'll most likely drop to 3rd at about 3500 rpm and chug past the blue-hair in the slow lane.

The other slight advantage to the 3.73 gear is that you said you 'only' tow 25-30% of the time. While the extra tires and the wind drag of the dually bed flares are directionally incorrect for fuel econ, the 3.73 will be better than a 4.10 truck by a little when running empty on the highway.

Can't comment on the longer term financials of getting an '09 in this config....my crystal ball only shows me yesterday and nothing in the future.

gdnelis · March 31, 2010

Thanks everyone.

To answer a few questions, I tow the trailer and boats on average of 40 miles each trip. I live in the countryside about 40 miles north of Pittsburgh. So I'll be towing through side streets of the city, about 15 miles of highway with varying hills (PA is brutal) and then another 15 or so through two lane with hills again. I live on a canyon of a road (have a 200' driveway that is a fair hill) so I think I have a well rounded mix of towing needs. Most boats are sitting on the flat land already on the trailer by the time I hook up so pulling out of the ramps is not an issue but I do currently use 4L for that in my existing truck to make life easier.

I think the truck is a good mix of gears / motor for me, but resale is a concern because I don't see many takers on this dually especially, but understand what you're saying on any dually really. Truthfully, they told me I was crazy buying a Ram in a loaded package with a 5 speed (like the stick) when I ordered it, but I drove it into the ground basically and the difference on trade in price for it in an auto right now is like $500. So while I know a diesel will be worth a lot more on trade when I'm done with this, its simply out of my budget and this seems like a good mix. I'm slightly more concerned with the resale just from thinking things may change and I may not need this thing in 3 years, but its a gamble I'm willing to take. I've been in business for 2 years and its growing faster than I can keep up so hopefully my good fortune continues.

I looked up a KBB* trade in price on a 2008 and a 2009 both with 12k miles to compare what I'd lose if I traded in next year theoretically with a 1 year old model vs. a 2 year old model. The diffference in equally equiped trucks was $2500 over the on year. So, I'm hoping to take the truck for $35000 before rebates which will put me at $32500 with the $2500 they're offering and 0% for either 60 or 72 months however I decide I want the payment to shake out to. We'll see, its the end of the month and this truck has seen a lot of end of the months on that lot - they bounced it between dealerships a few times from what I can see (its at a different one than this website showed on GMC) which tells me they just can't move it, but I'd have no problem letting them have it for another month or five too. With the 2011's around the corner I wish I could wait, but its just not in the cards - I'm afraid the current one will throw a rod through the hood by the time they're out.

*(I know KBB doesn't mean much these days thanks to auction prices, but we'll go with them for comparison purposes and they can tell me if I'm now showing a big enough loss with the auction prices if they want to shoot themselves in the foot to help me)

Thanks again

Greg

jro909 · March 31, 2010

if a duramax is in your budget get one..otherwise the 6.0 will deal with anything you want to throw at it but with a little less ease as the durmax would have...i second that the 6 speed is a monster

s-ten · March 31, 2010

From what it sounds like the 6.0 will be just fine for your needs, and a large improvement on the 4.7. You will struggle if you try to tow 70+ up a hill with a load, but i you keep the speeds in range of the engines capabilities it would work great. You would like the stability of the dually when towing, I have towed 8-10K with my dads '05 dually a number of times and the truck is very stable.

As far as resale you have a couple of things going for you. One, it is a dually and it will hold its resale a little better. Two, there is no 8.1 anymore for someone wanting a gas engine so the only option left is to buy a 6.0.

Good luck with your decision.

wages999 · March 31, 2010

The 6.0/6-speed will blow you away compared to your Ram. If your Ram gets the same gas mileage as my dad's '02 Ram, the Sierra might actually get better gas mileage (loaded and unloaded). Good luck with the purchase!

gdnelis · March 31, 2010

Gas mileage is one thing I'd probably lose, the dodge averages 15 mpg empty but I don't put enough miles on to worry about gas too much (10-11k a year) and its a write off for me anyhow.

The sales manager called me and fed me some BS already today, not looking forward to the purchase experience. I had a bad experience with this dealership many years ago but with the turnover rate at these places, all but the owners have changed in the last 8 years so I'll give them a quick try. He tried telling me the price they quoted via email ($38,995) was invoice less the rebate but I beg to differ. The reason I don't like them is years ago I asked to see the invoice and they refused to show it to me, every other dealer showed me what I wanted that year and they got my purchases as a result.

But, the cards are in my hand because the deals they're offering on this truck expire Monday, not today like his commission / quota numbers at the end of the month. We'll see how it goes, I'll keep you all posted and thanks again for the help. If not this one - there will be another from the General on my radar sooner or later.

Shaners · March 31, 2010

Welcome to GM-trucks!

I don't live too far from you. I am in Grove City.

The only thing that will dissappoint you about the GMC is that fuel milage will be less than what you are used too. Otherwise I think you will love the truck!

jro909 · March 31, 2010

idk, the mileage could go either way...mopar builds gas guzzlers plain and simple...the 6.0 and the weight of the truck itself may be a decent balance to the point you may get good mileage for a truck, for example a 5.3 gets better mileage in a half ton then a 4.3 because it dosen't have to work as hard...just my 2 cents a gmc is worth 3k more then a dodge in trade in value...

davzog · April 1, 2010

Regarding gas mileage, mine gets about 14 empty on the hiway and 12-12.5 in town....towing our 5th wheel I get 9-10 on level hiway at 62-65 mph. If I had a dually I might drive a bit faster but my rig is not as stable as a dually. I would guess you will get the same mileage I do, since you would be running 3.73 and I have the 4.10....but you have a tad more weight to pull.

Unless you are going to a diesel, your mileage will not be great, but the newer diesels are not as good as a few years ago....

When I bought my 07 Classic, it sat next to the 07 New Body Style on the lot.....it had a $3k rabate and the new body style had $500 rebate....so I saved $2500, and on KBB mine is only about $1500 lower than the new body style.....

As nicely equipped as the truck is, I might suggest you won't be trading it soon enough to worry about a big loss in value....let us know...

jro909 · April 1, 2010

Regarding gas mileage, mine gets about 14 empty on the hiway and 12-12.5 in town....towing our 5th wheel I get 9-10 on level hiway at 62-65 mph. If I had a dually I might drive a bit faster but my rig is not as stable as a dually. I would guess you will get the same mileage I do, since you would be running 3.73 and I have the 4.10....but you have a tad more weight to pull.

Unless you are going to a diesel, your mileage will not be great, but the newer diesels are not as good as a few years ago....

When I bought my 07 Classic, it sat next to the 07 New Body Style on the lot.....it had a $3k rabate and the new body style had $500 rebate....so I saved $2500, and on KBB mine is only about $1500 lower than the new body style.....

As nicely equipped as the truck is, I might suggest you won't be trading it soon enough to worry about a big loss in value....let us know...

hell i'd take the savings for a classic, they are way nicer looking..i love mine to death, my only gripe is the weak plastic front bumper, but hell plastic overides steel these days