Another cracked battery

jhm · November 3, 2003

Saturday we were set to go on a ride (75 degrees in November in CT is RARE!) turned key, nothing but that dreaded click! I pop the hood, look at the battery, smell acid, but the "eye" is still green. My wife gets in cab tuns key and eye turns to black. I look under truck and see 12 inch dia acid puddle. This '01 is still in warranty so I call dealer and he says he will call flat bed to bring it to him. He says they are closing at 1:00 so there is only a 2 hr window to get it fixed today. The tow guy calls and says no way can he get it there before 1:00, so I tell dealer and he says he will call the rental company and get me a car. The rental company calls me and says they are totally out of cars till Sunday. I say skip it, will get by with wifes car. Next the tow guy calls and says if it only needs a battery, they have a battery service and I can be up and running by 3:00, I relay this to dealer and he hems and haws and says "no, that might cause a problem with the warranty". So instead they pay for a flat bed haul 20 miles, a rental car (I passed on) and a battery anyway! I then tell the dealer that while it is there, I have a list of concerns that I was bringing in before the warranty expires, we will see how many they can fix, but at least they are documented for when the warranty runs out! I had heard about these batteries cracking and always checked mine for any sign, but murphys law strikes!

Ben · November 3, 2003

If you've ever taken the positive post connection apart, you could have the infamous GM pos battery problem. Kills alternators, batteries, pos cables, starters and host of electrical problems.

Here's my standard reply:

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http://james.jaguar.net/subtopics/Terminal-Mod.jpg

....note that the brass nut is drilled out and just acts like washer. There are TWO OEM lugs on the battery terminal, then brass nut, then accessory lug (3 wires, two 50 amp fuse holder, one 30 amp fuse holder) and alarm power wire. Have since gone to store bought that looks very much like this one (it's shown on #1 Son's battery page).

http://forums.vmag.com/suvsuburban0402/mes...sages/5109.html

TEXT from that article:

That bad battery post design can/does kill alternators, batteries, starters, battery cables, and wreck havoc with other electrical circuits.

Think many don't know what Traveler and I are talking about. Here's an example of what is happening and the cause'n affect:

Take the battery positive cable lug and unscrew it from the battery (disconnect it). Manually hold the cable lug to the battery post. Start the vehicle. Now touch, remove, touch, remove the cable lug to and from the battery pos terminal. THAT is EXACTLY what happens when that stupid lead spacer crushes and allows the bolt to bottom into the battery pos post.

The alternator sees the battery, charges (provides oltage/current), then the connection goes away. Voltage at the alternator goes up (maybe several hundred volts, instantly...or almost that fast). Then when the contact is made again, the alternator will see huge load (maybe hundreds of amps, instantly...or almost that fast). This is called load dumping and will kill a good alternator in short order.

Above load dumping will also kill the battery in short order too. Over voltage and over current. Also will have high resistance terminal, meaning voltage drop, meaning current used at that spot. That current usage turns out to be heat...high enough to melt the battery case, which will allow battery acid to leak into the joint *AND* down the cable (cable acting like a wick and cable insulation acting like a hose...carrying battery acid down to the starter...starter don't like battery acid).

Another cause is that there is a lead spacer between the two cable lugs on the battery post. One time use, as 2nd time tightening the bolt will have the lead washer too short to provide resistance and allows the bolt to bottom out inside the batt pos terminal. That then cracks the batt case, allowing acid to leak...ditto above, ruining cable, starter, alternator, battery, etc. Throwing away the lead washer, cutting off the plastic from the lug blades (flat part only) and replacing the washer with stack of brass washers that won't allow the bolt to bottom is a fix.

All of the above then has this affect on the vehicle computer: turns it on and off. Or various components of the vehicle. Which one??? Who knows and not always the same one. Engine dies for no apparent reason. Doors lock and unlock for no reason. Window motors burn up for no reason. Lights turn on, off for no reason. After market alarms turn on/off and lose their programing. ETC, ETC, ETC.

Another way to avoid/manage the lead crush washer is to use a hardened brass bolt that is threaded whole length, that is longer than needed and a hardened brass nut. Put nut on and screw it to the bolt head. Stack up all of the lugs on the bolt, then screw the bolt into the battery pos terminal till it hits bottom, back off 1/2 turn. Now turn the nut down onto the stack of lugs while holding the bolt hex from turning (do not allow bolt to bottom into the batt terminal and only HAND tight). Tighten the nut till it's tight and makes good connection. This way you'll be able to keep that lead spacer and not have to cut off the plastic covers on the lug blades...

This avoids bottoming the bolt, which is one cause of acid leaks (cracks battery case), other is high resistance and the heat generated melting the batt case...causing acid leak.

Another potential is jumping another car while your engine is running. Here is hot link to that thread at hot link below.

http://forums.vmag.com/suvsuburban0201/mes...sages/1157.html

jhm · November 3, 2003

That is a lot of data, but no, I have never done anything to the battery or cables. Dealer just called and claims everthing on my list has been fixed except the engine ping. He said they didn't hear it, but they were just letting it idle in park. I told him you gotta accelerate in gear....he says they will check it out. I got a strong suspicion it will be a "NORMAL NOISE"!!!

SportyShorty · November 3, 2003

I had to replace my battery on my truck this past weekend for the same reason. I went out, saw acid on the ground. I went to loosen the positive battery cable and th darn thing fell off. Anyone know if the dealers are warrentying this?? The battery has a 6 year warrenty and the truck is ony 5 years old??

stlmaj · November 4, 2003

My wife’s Grandprix did the same thing!! And of course it was out of warranty... And we were nowhere near home… I replaced it myself and haven’t had any trouble from it again. (I had no aftermarket stuff added to the cable either)

Matt

LogixRat · November 4, 2003

Wowsers...lots of good info in there. Thanks for sharing Ben!

Now I'm just wondering how soon my alternator will go to crap considering how many times I have helped friends (and strangers) jump their vehicle. Maybe I shouldn't be such a nice guy, but I've been there before and it sucks to be stranded. Now I know how to do it right w/o causing me grief down the road.

Luckily (*knock on wood*) I haven't had any probs with my battery, but I haven't ever disconnected it either. Gotta agree with others about why GM would put such shoddy crapware for a battery connector when for just a little more you could get a higher quality product that wouldn't cause these problems. Seems that just a few hundred battery replacements would justify the cost. Oh well, I guess that's why they make the big bucks and I just whine here...hehe.

Again, thanks!!

Ben · November 4, 2003

...snip...
Gotta agree with others about why GM would put such shoddy crapware for a battery connector when for just a little more you could get a higher quality product that wouldn't cause these problems. Seems that just a few hundred battery replacements would justify the cost. Oh well, I guess that's why they make the big bucks and I just whine here...hehe.

Again, thanks!!

I'm not for sure, but think about this that that little $0.05 lead washer does for GM....

How many "extra" batteries does GM sell?

How many "extra" alternators does GM sell?

How many "extra" staters does GM sell?

How many "extra" positive battery cables does GM sell?

All at the much higher margin parts counter prices...

All with labor to ID, install and check out...

Not many really believe all of this so continue to "buy" parts with labor to install...

How much does this $0.05 lead washer make for GM?????

Am I being a bit too pesimistic on this? It's an easy fix, change the material to something that won't crush...

[edit]....forgot to mention that every last one who has done this "fix" has *NOT* had a repeat of their previous problems. Even noticed their electricals works much better...starts up faster...etc.

Maybe GM isn't doing this on purpose, but it sure makes tons of money for them...even if they have to eat a battery or two under warranty...

LogixRat · November 4, 2003

Yeup I see your point too. The revenues they make on people out of warranty probably outweighs the money spent for those still in-warranty. I guess if they get to a point where it's reversed they'll pony up the extra nickel and we won't be as pesimistic anymore, at least about this particular item...hehe.

100R1 · November 4, 2003

MY #1 complaint about GM products is THAT d**n SIDE POST TERMINAL BATTERY!!!!!

I ahve never seen a side terminal post battery last anywhere near the warrentity period before they start to leak at the + post.

I just had it happen on my 01 Yukon w/ 28K miles

I have replaced every GM company vehicle battery in the fleet due to leakage at some point in time. If possible I replace with a top post.

I purchased a Sears Diehard (yea right!) with something like 80 month warrentity.

I know it will not last full warrentity, But The way I look at a battery is that you do not own it but just RENT the battery with the PRO rated warrentity.

Next time on the 'KON I think I will spend a few more bucks and get a optima that should cure the side post ills

*I heard that GM for 2004 is replacing the flooded acid side terminal battery with another type of side post battery that will not leak........anyone know anymore info?

jhm · November 4, 2003

The orig equip battery in my truck lasted 33 months. I wouldnt care so much if it just died, but to leak acid on my almost new garage floor is BS! Plus, I'm sure it didnt just leak all at once overnight, so acid probably was dribbling out while I was driving. I'm gonna check it out for any damage when I get the truck back. I am going over to the dealer this afternoon cause he said yesterday the tech didnt hear any engine noise so I got to bring him for a ride and point it out. Like I said, he will probably say "that noise? that is nothing to worry about" Funny thing is it made no noise when it was new, only after hitting 15K!