hypertech/dealership Q

GLOCKM22 · December 25, 2004

I have to take my truck in next week for a problem I am having with the volt meter fluctuating and lights dimming etc while at low idle. I am going to reset my hypertech programmer to the stock settings before I take it in. Will they be able to tell I installed any programming in the past???? My dealership is strict. They told me they would void my warranty if I installed a K&N FIPK2. I thought that was BS but it prevented me from getting one.

gixxer · December 25, 2004

I have to take my truck in next week for a problem I am having with the volt meter fluctuating and lights dimming etc while at low idle. I am going to reset my hypertech programmer to the stock settings before I take it in. Will they be able to tell I installed any programming in the past???? My dealership is strict. They told me they would void my warranty if I installed a K&N FIPK2. I thought that was BS but it prevented me from getting one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you could do a google on magnuson moss act and show that to your dealership

ktmjim215 · December 25, 2004

A K&N will not void your warranty. The air filter would have nothing to do with say, a window motor going out. The K&N will only void the parts it replaced or parts affected by the aftermarket parts. If you over oiled the filter and it caused driveability problems those problems wouldn't be covered by warranty. The MAF soaked with oil wouldn't be covered.

If you have something specific, post it. If the dealership wants to void your warranty due to a simple and common upgrade you just need to find a new dealer. You should ask them if they are taking about voiding the entire warranty or the situations as I described.

It is a good idea to always return your vehicle to stock when going to the Dealership if you have a programmer. It's not that the Dealership cares in most cases, it's that GM's diagnostic and update programs will not work with the aftermarket settings in some cases. And there's nothing the Tech can do about it.

budhayes3 · December 25, 2004

They shouldn't be able to tell that you had the Hypertech programming in there if you remove it, and as far as the FIPK goes, unless the warranty concern is a direct result of the FIPK installation (ie: the oil from the filter contaminated the Mass Air Flow sensor, or the vehicle stalls because the intake tube pops off), they have to honor your warranty. When I got my FIPK, I kept my stock air box, just in case I had an issue I could switch back if necessary. I was always able to diagnose any concerns before hand so I knew if removal was necessary before bringing the truck in. I brought the vehicle in for numerous warranty concerns with the FIPK installed without a problem. (radio issue, driveline clunk, leaky rear window, steering shaft, leaf spring slap, noisy front shocks...the list goes on)

The one time I actually did have a check engine light, I got a code out of it (you can get that done at AutoZone I believe), and diagnosed the bank1 sensor1 O2 heater as being bad. The service writer called me (he's a friend of mine), and mentioned how the technician made some comments about my Gibson cat back and shorties causing the problem. I told him, no problem, if you can prove to me how my exhaust caused the failure, I'll gladly pay for the part, double the labor, and buy the shop lunch...but I'm positive that the heater failed because it just did...how many of those do you replace every day anyway? He said "yea, I know, we do about 2-3 of those a day...there's about 5 on the shelf in stock, they're very common." I said "I know...I just replaced one on a Camry with only 8k on the odometer" (Different manufacturer, same O2 principle)

Anyway, sorry about the long story, just wanted to give you an example.

GM-Tech · December 25, 2004

you could do a google on magnuson moss act and show that to your dealership

Working at a dealership service department as the service manger/shop foreman, I've been in these discussions before. I'm not trying to be a smart a$$ here, just sharing the reality of this situation as I see it...

Waving this act in front of the service manager will get you exactly nowhere. Yeah, legally you may have certain rights, but unless you go the full route of getting an attorney, suing, taking the service manager to court, etc., etc., you are wasting your time. We are threatened with, "I'm calling my attorney" on a somewhat regular basis and trust me, it does not set us to shaking in our boots. While you are calling your attorney, you are driving around in a vehicle that is not being fixed under warranty. Telling them to "prove it" as far as whether or not your add-on is the cause of the problem will get you equally as far.

However, a dealership does not have the power to "void your warranty" unless you call voiding your warranty their refusal to do the needed repairs under warranty.

Some dealerships are overly extreme in their view of aftermarket equipment. Some don't care what it is, if it's even remotely close to where the problem is, they ain't touchin' it unless you pay (or sue!).

Others are reasonable. I think we fall into this category. If you come in with a vibration at highway speeds and have 22" aftermarket wheels and tires on your truck, we wouldn't even consider it to be a warranty issue. Maybe it's driveline related, but I'm not wasting my time trying to diagnose this until you put it back to it's original wheel/tire configuration. I wouldn't even look at it at your expense.

On the other hand, if your complaint was that it idled roughly, I wouldn't give the wheels/tires a second glance, except to complain that leaning over the fender is a pain with a truck that high. If you had an excessively oiled K&N that can affect the MAF, that's a different story.

Vehicles today are exceedingly complex and hard enough to fix in their "as designed" configuration. No one wants to be trying to fix something with the various unknown factors of added on equipment.

slimjim2525 · December 25, 2004

I like when the GM-TECH posts here. He gives real world answers to questions, and no BS. Too many people have theories, of how things work.

MrQuadrasteer · December 25, 2004

I wanted to thank GM Tech, also. That was a good explanation.

This is always a subject that sits heavy with me and it's good to hear an REAL insider's side.

Merry Christmas, y'all !!

GLOCKM22 · December 25, 2004

Gm-Tech, Do you guys have the ability to tell if someone previously had installed hypertech? If I was honest with you the dealer and told you that I did have it installed, would you void my warranty on the motor, drivetrain, transmision etc?? thanks for you straight forward posts!

MrQuadrasteer · December 25, 2004

Well, since we're buggin' ya anyway ...

GM Tech, how about this : I installed a Westers CPU but kept my stock one. Would you be able to tell if I swapped them back before going in ??

Thanks.

ktmjim215 · December 25, 2004

I agree with GM-Tech's answers about how to handle your Service requests. Right on the money. And the part about "Calling my Lawyer" does no good. If the Service Department has done wrong, you shouldn't ever need to get that far. If the work or request is correct, then "Lawyer" is just another 6 letter word they hear all the time. Remember that many times the Service Dept's hands are tied, GM's policy and procedures manual is about 3 inches thick and now on CD. More rules and audit threats than you can think. And what GM thinks about taking $100K or taking your franchise is nothing.

And this is real world, I've been a GM Service Manager, Parts Manager or Fixed Operations Director for 18 years. People with reasonable requests or something they don't understand, with a reasonable attitude, always get help. People that come in with a TRUE story and just need help will always get help. Service Dept. employees earn their livings helping people and most enjoy it. And most really step up when things go wrong. But when someone comes in acting like an idiot, well. Sometimes the stories (or lies ) we hear should be on TV. For example, my Service Dept. closed on Xmas Eve 3 hours earlier than normal closing, and we were the only GM dealer in this large city even open that day. A customer (local but never been here before) pulled up as I locked the door and asked to get his vehicle looked at for a hard start problem that has been going on for a few weeks, vehicle has 50K on the odometer. He was pi$$ed when I told him that we closed early so the employees could spend some time with their families. He couldn't understand. He really got upset when we wouldn't be open today (Xmas and the Dealership he bought the truck from doesn't open on Saturday anyway). Before I could even explain that each of my employees worked 45-65 hours each week and deserved time with their families (less time than other area dealership employees too), the guy stated that he would never come here again. Probably a good thing anyway, don't think he could afford the repairs anyway .

Down off the soap box now, you've got to have some thick skin to work in this industry these days. If you're not getting beat up by the customers it's the factory. Sounds like GM-Tech works at a good dealership.

Bish · December 25, 2004

I'll give you another reason to return it to stock before a dealer visit, in case it isn't mentioned above.

If they update your computer, your programmer will no longer work and will be rendered useless even for another vehicle. The way a Hypertech works is it stores your stock programming and VIN in the unit once you have set custom programming. If the dealer does a maintenance update, your Hypertech will not be able to change it or return it to stock because it no longer matches the unit. If you sell it, nobody will be able to program their truck because your VIN is in the unit. I believe Hypertech will erase it for around $150

When I was under warranty and still visiting the dealer, I always returned to stock first. Now, if you have custom programming done, that can be a "whole nother story".

budhayes3 · December 25, 2004

you could do a google on magnuson moss act and show that to your dealership

Others are reasonable. I think we fall into this category. If you come in with a vibration at highway speeds and have 22" aftermarket wheels and tires on your truck, we wouldn't even consider it to be a warranty issue. Maybe it's driveline related, but I'm not wasting my time trying to diagnose this until you put it back to it's original wheel/tire configuration. I wouldn't even look at it at your expense.

On the other hand, if your complaint was that it idled roughly, I wouldn't give the wheels/tires a second glance, except to complain that leaning over the fender is a pain with a truck that high. If you had an excessively oiled K&N that can affect the MAF, that's a different story.

Vehicles today are exceedingly complex and hard enough to fix in their "as designed" configuration. No one wants to be trying to fix something with the various unknown factors of added on equipment.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Most of the dealerships that I've worked for have pretty much been this way, (although I've worked for a different manufacturer with a little bit different of a philosophy towards customer satisfaction and retention...sometimes we thought that Toyota wrote the Red Hot Chili Pepper song "Give it away now"). Anyway, same deal though...if the customer came in with a vibration or thumping at 55mph, and had chrome 22's, etc, we'd have to ask that he/she please re-install the factory equipment so we could properly diagnose the concern. That goes with what you mentioned about the complexity of todays vehicle control systems also...they're hard enough to diagnose and repair without throwing in other unknown variables...(as a technician, I have nothing good to say about aftermarket remote starters, although I will admit that most of the failures that I have seen have been the direct result of poor workmanship as opposed to component failures, even with the inferior quality of those components)

GM-Tech · December 25, 2004

Gm-Tech, Do you guys have the ability to tell if someone previously had installed hypertech? If I was honest with you the dealer and told you that I did have it installed, would you void my warranty on the motor, drivetrain, transmision etc?? thanks for you straight forward posts!

I don't really do mods, so you'll have to excuse my ignorance. If there's nothing external, it would be difficult to tell. It it's just a calibration change, we *might* be able to tell if the cal number was something weird and not anything that would be in your vehicle, but we'd have to really be looking for that to know it was there. I can only remember once specifically looking to see if we could tell if the cal was not what it should be. I don't know what these Westers and similar things do in terms of cal numbers.

If we updated your PCM calibration, which is sometimes done when there have been updates, you'd lose any custom calibration and we wouldn't even know it. You probably wouldn't be too happy.

If you told me you had this, I would not void your warranty nor could I. But I would want to know what exactly was changed so I could know if this was somehow related to your concern. Most of all, I would appreciate your honesty and try to work with you on it.

GM-Tech · December 25, 2004

GM Tech, how about this : I installed a Westers CPU but kept my stock one. Would you be able to tell if I swapped them back before going in ??

No, probably not. A sharp tech that was looking for signs of modifications MIGHT be able to tell the PCM has been out, but even that's probably not going to happen. And even if he said, "hey, this looks like it has been worked on" that really doesn't mean much and certainly is no indication of something being modified.