Clutch is dead...again

Scyry · March 15, 2005

My clutch is going out on my truck again, it was replaced 6k ago...everything, slave, master cylinders, plate, and throw out bearing. It is doing all the same things again, hard to shift, loosing power, and I could smell the clutch the other day after an hour drive (all interstate). All the driving was done on highways pretty much, commuted 120 miles/day for 2 months before I moved closer to my job. I am getting it back to the dealer to have it fixed. Anyone have an idea what could be causing this? I mean I am at 60,000 miles, the tranny was replaced at 48,000, whole clutch at 54,000. I just don't know what to do besides get rid of the truck.

I also am worried about this trying to be thrown back at me. I don't want to pay for any of this. It is rediculous for the clutch to be gone already.

Scyry · March 28, 2005

Ok, took my truck up to the dealer and they took the clutch apart, claim it has no abnormal wear, but anytime I drive it for a while 15-20 minutes in fifth gear, you can smell the clutch when you get out of the truck. The dealer thought the "hydraulics had air in it." I am guessing this meanings something was wrong in the slave cylinder?

Anyways, the truck is not any better, but I have to have my truck for the next week, so I didn't take it back to the dealer yet. So, does anyone have any ideas what this could be? When I go to shift, everytime, it stops me from pushing it all the way into gear, like if you try to down shift at too high of speed. Then it almost sucks the stick out of my hand into gear. Sometimes it won't go into reverse, I have to try to shift it into gear 3 or 4 times before it will go. The repairs done to the truck are in the previous post. I am at wits end and don't know what to do at this point.

Also, when I take it back, do I have a right to demand what I paid on the previous trip be credited to the reapirs they try next? I mean what they did, did nothing; seems unfair to pay for work that didn't fix the problem.

BlackDawg · March 28, 2005

Brutal situation!

I have no idea what might be the cause but I do have a story to share and a suggestion:

Story:

My buddy told me once (back in the early eighties) not to buy a jeep cherokee. He said they are a crappy product, they make bad noises and the doors fall off (of course he was exaggerating). So I bought it anyway 'cuz I liked it. It was a great vehicle, handled well, good power for what I wanted and very versatile (one of the original SUVs).

However, it wasn't long before I was having clutch problems. to shorten the story, the clutch was replaced twice, the tranny once and the rear end once. The final straw was when I was washing it one day and I opened the passenger side door and the door literally "fell OFF in my arms". CAN YOU BELIEVE IT!?!?!

It turns out the hinge pins are made of hollow spring steel, not solid steel so the whole time I was lubricating them, the oil was simply draining down the centre. Drove it the dealer ship with the door in the back (looking very uncool for a Cherokee). Thank GOD for extended warranties or that vehicle would have put me in the poor house. Sold it a week later for a significant discount. Other than the problems, I really liked that vehicle, I think it was just a "bad" vehicle.

Suggestion:

This is a great forum for airing "whats up" and maybe another member will be able to give you some decent advice other than me who just has another crappy story to share!

My only practical advice would be to get that truck out of your life ASAP and move on. It may be that you will never run into the "right" person who really knows what the problem is or who will take the time (and your money) to figure it out. I expect your next truck will be fine and you will soon be sitting around the bar telling old truck stories instead of having to drive "that ongoing story" everyday (that it is not in the shop)!

Cheers brother! Hope things bet better

Heybeerman · April 4, 2005

Well my door has not fallen off. But I am on my third clutch/flywheel. Plus my trans went out at about 120,000 miles. The problem with the clutch starts with a broken flywheel. At least thats what I've been told. Some thing about a 2 peice flywheel.

Oh...on a 02 D-max 4x4 dually

Good luck.

BlackDawg · April 4, 2005

... The problem with the clutch starts with a broken flywheel. At least thats what I've been told. Some thing about a 2 peice flywheel.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You know why they said it has to do with a 2 peice flywheel?

Because it starts out as a 1 peice flywheel but then it breaks into 2 pieces and once that happens, that is when the clutch problems start. Ha, Ha, Ha,

Sorry, just trying to add a little levity to the conversation.

snoman · April 4, 2005

Well my door has not fallen off. But I am on my third clutch/flywheel. Plus my trans went out at about 120,000 miles. The problem with the clutch starts with a broken flywheel. At least thats what I've been told. Some thing about a 2 peice flywheel.

Oh...on a 02 D-max 4x4 dually

Good luck.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dmax cam be hard on clutch especailly if you boost them. Big rubber without regearing does not help clutch in either in a gas or diesel truck either.

snoman · April 4, 2005

On a side note my son had a clutch go out in his car recently and it turned out the the rear main seal (that we had put in 6 months ago) was defective and oiled the clutch some so they gave us a new seal and a new clutch too for free. We just had to tear it down again to do it though.

MemphisDoug · April 7, 2005

If you can smell your clutch after driving down the highway for 15-20 minutes, it sounds as though your clutch is being held partially disengaged. This would cause it to wear much faster. Just curious, are you sure you are smelling the clutch and not a stuck brake pad? Are you also sure that you aren't "riding the clutch", that is, resting your left foot on the clutch pedal as you drive. People do it without even realizing it. The problem with the partially disengaged clutch theory is that it wouldn't cause you to have the hard shifting you speak of unless that is happening well after the clutch is getting worn out. If you are breaking flywheels, you might have some sort of alignment problem between the engine and transmission. I think the breaking flywheels is where your investigation needs to start. Good luck!

Scyry · April 7, 2005

As soon as I am done shifting I stick my foot tight against the seat. It was a habit I developed when my Dad taught me to drive, he didn't want me resting my foot on the clutch for the reason you said above.

They did drain the slave cylinder and recharge it. I have not had the smell since, but shifting is not much better. They have some TSB saying that the tranny shifts rough and it is normal. The tranny did shift smoothly before and then start shifting hard. Maybe I am just paranoid with all the troube I have had with the truck. Oh well, few months I will be rid of the truck and it will be someone elses problem.

As far as the fly wheel thing, I am not too familiar with all the drivetrain parts, I know the entire clutch and tranny have been replaced. So they should of looked at the flywheel at some point I am guessing? But since they didn't say anything about the clutch almost being dead when they replaced the tranny, you never know.

PS: my truck has really loud noise, lifter noise it what it sounds like to me, just a constant rattle, which I have be assured is normal many times. Could this be due to the flywheel? It is louder than the injector noise all the 6.0 liters make, but sounds similar.

snoman · April 7, 2005

As soon as I am done shifting I stick my foot tight against the seat. It was a habit I developed when my Dad taught me to drive, he didn't want me resting my foot on the clutch for the reason you said above.

They did drain the slave cylinder and recharge it. I have not had the smell since, but shifting is not much better. They have some TSB saying that the tranny shifts rough and it is normal. The tranny did shift smoothly before and then start shifting hard. Maybe I am just paranoid with all the troube I have had with the truck. Oh well, few months I will be rid of the truck and it will be someone elses problem.

As far as the fly wheel thing, I am not too familiar with all the drivetrain parts, I know the entire clutch and tranny have been replaced. So they should of looked at the flywheel at some point I am guessing? But since they didn't say anything about the clutch almost being dead when they replaced the tranny, you never know.

PS: my truck has really loud noise, lifter noise it what it sounds like to me, just a constant rattle, which I have be assured is normal many times. Could this be due to the flywheel? It is louder than the injector noise all the 6.0 liters make, but sounds similar.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A tear down and inspection is warranted and by someone else than has been doing your work in the past as something is not right unless you are really beating it bad or slip it a lot with big tires and like someone said maybe it is not fully releasing too. The hard shifting is a sign that something may not be right with the clutch (not fully releasing) causing hard shifting. You need a new clutch, pressure plate, through out bearing and to varify the clutch linkage is working properly too.

BlackDawg · April 7, 2005

About the "broken flywheel". That was just a joke. Hope I didn't lead anyone one to thinking that the flywheel actually breaks into two pieces (although I suppose it might). My understanding is that in some designs, there can be a heavy rubber damper near the centre of the flywheel that "separates" the flywheel into 2 pieces. This is a design that may be referred to as a "2 piece" flywheel. I am only speculating but did want to "clean up" after my previous comments...

Jacqson · April 7, 2005

As soon as I am done shifting I stick my foot tight against the seat. It was a habit I developed when my Dad taught me to drive, he didn't want me resting my foot on the clutch for the reason you said above.

They did drain the slave cylinder and recharge it. I have not had the smell since, but shifting is not much better. They have some TSB saying that the tranny shifts rough and it is normal. The tranny did shift smoothly before and then start shifting hard. Maybe I am just paranoid with all the troube I have had with the truck. Oh well, few months I will be rid of the truck and it will be someone elses problem.

As far as the fly wheel thing, I am not too familiar with all the drivetrain parts, I know the entire clutch and tranny have been replaced. So they should of looked at the flywheel at some point I am guessing? But since they didn't say anything about the clutch almost being dead when they replaced the tranny, you never know.

PS: my truck has really loud noise, lifter noise it what it sounds like to me, just a constant rattle, which I have be assured is normal many times. Could this be due to the flywheel? It is louder than the injector noise all the 6.0 liters make, but sounds similar.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A tear down and inspection is warranted and by someone else than has been doing your work in the past as something is not right unless you are really beating it bad or slip it a lot with big tires and like someone said maybe it is not fully releasing too. The hard shifting is a sign that something may not be right with the clutch (not fully releasing) causing hard shifting. You need a new clutch, pressure plate, through out bearing and to varify the clutch linkage is working properly too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, I have come to the same conclusion as "snoman".The pressure plate was the first thing that came to my mind. Maybe the springs are shot in your pressure plate and your not getting proper pressure on the disc. The only time you can smell a clutch is when it starts to burn and the only way that can happen is the clutch starts to slip and does not have complete contact with the flywheel. The pressure plate keeps the disc firmly on the flywheel. If you have a hard time shifting then IMHO the clutch is not completely dissengaging when you step on the pedal. I would say get it checked out like "snoman" says and maybe look into a better clutch than the one GM has to offer.

Scyry · April 7, 2005

The pressure plate is only about 6k miles old, 3 months. They replaced everything in it. When I talked to the dealer after getting it back, they just quoted the TSB, no matter what I said. I am just so fed up with the truck at this point, even if it is fixed I am going to sell it. Still think IO should persue a full tear down? I really don't want to pay anymore out of pocket if they open it up and claim nothing is wrong.

snoman · April 7, 2005

The pressure plate is only about 6k miles old, 3 months. They replaced everything in it. When I talked to the dealer after getting it back, they just quoted the TSB, no matter what I said. I am just so fed up with the truck at this point, even if it is fixed I am going to sell it. Still think IO should persue a full tear down? I really don't want to pay anymore out of pocket if they open it up and claim nothing is wrong.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If they are not going to pay for it take it somewhere else and use someone elses parts. I have had good luck with clutch parts bought at Advanced Auto or Napa. It is too much trouble to take tranny out to not replace everything in there and if you are mechanically inclined, with the proper jacks, there are worse jobs than this to do yourself. GM usually puts a generous clutch in HD gas trucks unless they have changed their ways but I would change everything and not at same dealer either. Somebody is doing something wrong because that clutch is not that bad by design and it the new pressure plate was bad to begin with (or the wrong one) the clutch could fail early.