2008 Chevy 2500hd 6.0 Starting Issues

bfullthrottle_69 · April 28, 2009

Afternoon Guys,

I have an 08 Chevy 2500HD 4x4 with the 6.0 motor. Truck currently has 15,000 miles on it and the problem started around 12,000 miles. Now I know you read the title and are thinking this is covered in one of the TSB's, most likely PIT4284...I think that it is the number. There are several that could possibly cover the issue but the dealership does not believe they actually apply.

My truck is currently at the dealership and the service manager as well as the GM engineers apparently have not clue as to what is causing my problem. When the truck is cold, and it appears the outside temp has to be in the low 30's or lower, the truck idles rough and somtimes stalls out. I am on my 4th trip within 2 months to the dealership for it.

The GM Engineers says the issue is bad gas. I have run nothing but premium in the truck since I bought it last July (08), mostly gas from Chevron or Valero. Both are high volume gas stations. I was able to reproduce the issue at the dealership on my first trip. The check engine light has only come on twice since it started occuring. It was not on when it happened at the dealership and according to the dealership the stored codes have nothing to do with the issue. The dealer did not know what to do, told me to bring it back and they called GM. GM suggested an Upper Engine Clean, which they did. The truck ran fine for one week and started doing the same thing. I immediately called the dealer.

It took the dealer almost weeks to schedule an appointment and a loaner. They got the truck last Thursday. Gm told them to to another Upper Engine Clean and they did it on Friday. The called me to come pick it up on Saturday. On my way to the dealer, they called to say they cranked the truck and it was still doing the same thing. They called GM back again and they told the dealer to do another Upper Engine Clean. I was told by the dealer that if it did not fix it the first time, most likely I have a valve problem and the heads, at minimum would need a rebuild.

Will the multiple Upper Engine cleans take care of the problem? I do not think so and neither does the dealer. Is there something else that is going wrong or is GM trying to get out of doing a major repair?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Brian

Stevens03 · April 28, 2009

Lemon law!

Get a new truck, it would be a cold day in hell before I'd let the dealership tear into a brand new truck like that especially when they've had it so many times and they are clueless on whats causing the problem.

bill190 · April 29, 2009

Sound to me like you need an upper engine clean!

(Sorry, I couldn't resist...)

bfullthrottle_69 · April 29, 2009

Sound to me like you need an upper engine clean!

(Sorry, I couldn't resist...)

lol...no worries...the dealer is complaining about the cost of the rental now. I agree I don't want them to tear into the motor either. I feel like GM is giving me the run around. The dealer can only do what they allow him to, as I understand it.

bfullthrottle_69 · April 29, 2009

Lemon law!

Get a new truck, it would be a cold day in hell before I'd let the dealership tear into a brand new truck like that especially when they've had it so many times and they are clueless on whats causing the problem.

I have talked to an attorney already. They are allowed to work in good faith, however i do not have a good answer on what is considered reasonable. I filed a complaint with the GM customer service and have a case number. i am supposed to get a call from a District manager within the next few days

bfullthrottle_69 · May 1, 2009

Just an update. Dealer brought me my truck back yesterday, said they thing it was fixed. Problem reappeared this morning and it did it at lunch also. They said they do not know what to do but call GM. Any other ideas?

bill190 · May 1, 2009

Is it the case that it was warm weather up until 12,000 miles and this problem started happening?

Or did you have the vehicle operating in cold weather before 12,000 miles and it was working fine at that time?

If yes, then it sounds like something is no longer working as opposed to a defect, which could have been there from the beginning, and was only noticed when the cold weather came along! (A clue one way or the other.)

If it is a factory defect, it could of course be ANYTHING!

However if it is something which *was* working and broke, then I would think that it would be possible to fix.

If it is indeed cold weather which causes this problem, you could use an old electronic troubleshooting trick. Although this will be more difficult to do with spring on the way.

That is to make certain parts cold or warm and see if that causes the problem. Then you can find the general area of trouble.

So maybe there is an electronic module INSIDE the vehicle which causes trouble in cold weather. To find this, you could park the vehicle half in and half out of a garage and partly close the garage door. Leave the vehicle windows open to the outside cold air. Place a space heater under the engine area to keep it warm.

So now you would have a warm engine area and a cold passenger area. Next morning start your car and see what happens.

Next night reverse it. Cold engine and keep inside of vehicle warm with a space heater. (Be careful to not cause a fire or melt anything!)

If the cold inside of vehicle thing causes the trouble, then this would point to an electronic (computer) problem. Electronics can fail in a manner where only cold (or hot) will show the problem. This is because things expand and contract with temperature. Along with electrical wires. And tons of tiny electrical connections inside of electronics!

If the problem is caused by cold in the engine area, you could leave the vehicle outside and point a space heater at one side on low with the hood open. Be sure only that side stays warm and the other side gets cold. In this manner, you could further isolate the problem to a specific area of the engine compartment.

In electronics we will use refrigerant and spray it on components to make them cold. Or a heat gun to heat components up. This would be a bit difficult to do with an entire vehicle though! And would not work with something like an engine.

bfullthrottle_69 · May 2, 2009

Thank you Bill for the info. Good suggestions. New twist today...80 f this afternoon and it is having the issue. Problem seems to be getting worse. it used to do it when it was cold and occasionally when the outside temp was warm. Now it is doing it when the truck sits for several hours.

I talked with the Service Manager today. He talked with the all knowing Engineers again. Now they want me to run as much of the gas out of the tank as possible and have them refill it with gas from a quality gas station to see if that solves the problem. I asked the Service Manager if Chevron "Top Tier" Premium is considered quality gas? His reply..."it is probably the best". Well i know for a fact the last 3-4 tanks have been Chevron Premium. I have the reciepts. i told him this. I even filled up with it this morning. His response..."well wait until GM calls you back about your claim and tell them that."

I am not holding my breath as I have tried for 3 days to talk to my "customer assistance rep". He has yet to answer the phone nor has he returned my phone calls.

GM wonders why they have lost market share and are on the verge of bancruptcy. Some days I wish I still had my 85. Yeah the saddle bag tanks might explode but at least it ran like a top.

Any other ideas?

superjim · May 2, 2009

It may be advantageous to let the dealer know that if they can't get it fixed pretty soon...and fixed RIGHT... you will be talking to your lawyer again about pursuing a buyback under the Lemon Law.

bfullthrottle_69 · May 2, 2009

It may be advantageous to let the dealer know that if they can't get it fixed pretty soon...and fixed RIGHT... you will be talking to your lawyer again about pursuing a buyback under the Lemon Law.

When I even mentioned a lawyer before, they almost hung up on me at the dealership. Said they could not talk to me anymore. i am trying to keep the dealer on my side at this point to use as leverage with Gm. Amazingly enough i love the truck other than the recent issues...would rather they just replace it...Dodge is worse...and I would rather ride a horse than a ford...the horse rides much smoother...lol. Besides the lawyer i talked too appears to not know his head from a hole in the ground when it comes to lemon laws. I did some checking on my own and found they have 4 opportunities to fix it or replace it where i live.

bill190 · May 2, 2009

Thank you Bill for the info. Good suggestions. New twist today...80 f this afternoon and it is having the issue. Problem seems to be getting worse. it used to do it when it was cold and occasionally when the outside temp was warm. Now it is doing it when the truck sits for several hours....

Well that wrecks my WHOLE plan!

Stupid question...

...in my experience engineers are smart, but they don't troubleshoot everyday like mechanics do. So mechanics actually might be better at finding problems and diagnosing problems because they do this everyday.

Anyway you mention they keep calling the engineers. Has anyone just turned it over to a mechanic and let him do his regular troubleshooting thing? Go by the book and check this that and whatever else the book says to check for this problem?

Maybe if these things were checked before, the problem may not have appeared at that time, but maybe it has grown worse and now might appear if they were to check again?

What specifically does it do after sitting for several hours?

Then it does this for how long?

Does the problem go away after the engine runs for awhile? How long before the problem goes away?

bfullthrottle_69 · May 5, 2009

Thank you Bill for the info. Good suggestions. New twist today...80 f this afternoon and it is having the issue. Problem seems to be getting worse. it used to do it when it was cold and occasionally when the outside temp was warm. Now it is doing it when the truck sits for several hours....

Well that wrecks my WHOLE plan!

Stupid question...

...in my experience engineers are smart, but they don't troubleshoot everyday like mechanics do. So mechanics actually might be better at finding problems and diagnosing problems because they do this everyday.

Anyway you mention they keep calling the engineers. Has anyone just turned it over to a mechanic and let him do his regular troubleshooting thing? Go by the book and check this that and whatever else the book says to check for this problem?

Maybe if these things were checked before, the problem may not have appeared at that time, but maybe it has grown worse and now might appear if they were to check again?

What specifically does it do after sitting for several hours?

Then it does this for how long?

Does the problem go away after the engine runs for awhile? How long before the problem goes away?

Bill, i thought i replied the other day. Guess i hit the wrong button..lol. First off i am an Engineer myself so I can't talk too badly about them.

Basically, the truck idles rough on a cold start. Initially it was stalling out too as it was idling so rough. once the engine warms up it starts ok. If it stalls out, it will start up with the key and run fine. If the truck sits for about 6 hrs, basically a cold start, it idles rough for about 15 secs or so the idles up. It hasn't stalled out since they did the first upper engine clean but at the same time the temps are significantly warmer now too.

Now, in addition, the truck idles a little rough in gear. You can hear it hitch and the truck vibrates a little. I gave one of the mechanics at work ar ride today and he even commented on the idle.

I am under the impression or assumption that a mechanic at the dealership has been taking care of it but i do not know for sure. i would assume they would be checking things in an orderly fashion and eliminating them. When i troubleshot motors that is waht i did. I do know that no one at the dealer has a clue as to the problem.

Service manager called me Friday evening, he said he talked to the GM engineers again. They told him that i need to run out all of the gas in the truck and let them fill it up at a "quality gas supplier" near their shop. I asked what he thought about Chevron Premium. He said it was the best. I informed him that 80-90% of the gas run in the truck was the chevron and has been the only gas in the truck for the last 3-4 tank fulls minimum, prob closer to 6-8 or more. At 12 mpg average i tend to block out how often i am filling up...lol.

GM was also supposed to call me today, per a vm from the gentleman handling my case. He did not call when he daid he would, nor has he returned any of my calls nor picked up the phone when i did call. His message said "if i had any questions or comments to please call him, otherwise he would call me on monday between 3-5 pm". So Gm must not be too concerned about my business.

bill190 · May 5, 2009

There are all sorts of "little" tests like the following in my 1992 factory service manual. The test I describe below may or may not apply to your vehicle. But there are all sorts of tests like this in my books and I was wondering if they have done some of the more obscure tests like the following?

It seems to me there would be trouble when starting if the gas was draining back into the tank due to a faulty "check valve". Then gas would not be in the fuel line at first when starting. And it seems to me it would take awhile for the gas to drain back into the tank, thus the problem occuring only when the vehicle sits for awhile.

Anyway wondering if they have done basic tests like the following...

In-tank fuel line check valve test: This valve keeps the fuel from "draining back" into the gas tank after the engine has shut off.

The book says to remove the fuel line at the filter, remove the gas tank filler cap, connect a radiator test pump to the fuel line (on line going toward the gas tank) and apply 15 psi pressure. Then see that this pressure holds for 60 seconds.