Whats with MASs...

Norick · July 31, 2003

i have read a few things about MASs and so far i can tell if they work at all. from what i have read if you dont get a calibrated MAS the comp in the in chevys will adjust themselves after 200 miles and void any power gain. so im not sure if i should get one after reading reviews on this site.

also, do throutle body spacers and "tornado's" work at all?

-Norick

bigtruck21 · July 31, 2003

depends on the which truck you have

awdvkd · July 31, 2003

Tornado's are a scam, save your money!

8.1Texan · July 31, 2003

I've been contemplating an MAS as well for my 8.1/6-spd.

One thing I've been wondering about that maybe ya'll can help with, if I get a superchip/westers/etc. does the programming adjust the stock air flow sensor?

in other words, would it be redundant to have both the MAS and new programming?

cowboy02 · July 31, 2003

Tornado's are a scam, save your money!

Why do you say the are a scam?? I've actaully seen people that have used them and gotten mileage and HP gains..........

awdvkd · August 1, 2003

I have seen numerous studies done by consumers guide and others, they all show no positive gains other than lining the wrong set of pockets.

greyghost03 · August 2, 2003

I've also heard that the stock MAS can flow more than the stock TB and installing an aftermarket MAS can cause the engine to run a lean condition. So I guess unless you're planning on installing a larger, or ported and polished, TB it prob wouldn't make a diff.

TB spacers - Some say they make a diff and others say no diff. I guess it all depends on your particular application. If you are considering one and have an aftermarket intake you might, prob will, have to cut the fan shroud for clearance.

Tornado - If you have a Vortec engine you already have the swirling effect in the intake manifold and I think it would kinda be redundant to add one. I doubt they fit in an aftermarket intake also.

Just my .02!

bigtruck21 · August 4, 2003

In my 89 350 and my dad's 95 454 (both non-vortec) tbi....the tornado worked great. I could really tell how far i had to press on the gas pedal on the interstate. I got an extra 2mpg in my 350. It was like going into a headwind when I took it out compared to when it was in (because dad wanted to try it in his (it fit both trucks)). I'm sure they don't work as well on in the tube applications, but these fit inside the aircleaner assembly right on top of the intake. Don't tell me it's a scam if you have never tried it yourself. It was obviously something good if gm redesigned their whole engine on the principle of vortices. I also don't think it would work on a vortec engine, but I haven't tried it so I can't say for sure.

frdfandc · August 5, 2003

If you decide to start doing some engine upgrades, ie: Mass air flow sensor, throttle body, throttle body spacer, blah,blah,blah, I would suggest that when/if you order your mass air flow sensor, you might want to get it calibrated for a supercharger. The difference between a N/A calibrated MAF & a supercharger calibrated MAF, is that the supercharger calibrated MAF is calibrated to be a little richer for the fuel/air mixture. I have heard and seen of problems with getting a N?A calibrated MAF causing the engine to go lean.

awdvkd · August 7, 2003

I still stand by any independent company testing the tornado and saying it a scam rather than a seat of the pants driver test. If it gives 2 mpg increase every manufacturer would have them in the vehicle from the factory.

bigtruck21 · August 8, 2003

I'm not saying it works for every vehicle, hense you don't see it in my mods. I'm saying it worked great for 2 pre-vortec motors. Different motors work in different ways and sweeping generalizations about mods does not apply to all motors. And no, if it worked every manufacturer wouldn't have them in. If this was the case, customers wouldn't be able to upgrade their performance at all with aftermarket intake, exhaust...and so on. It costs money. Look at all the trim pieces and hoodlight and so on missing in the 03's compared to earlier. Manufacturers save money anyway they can.

I too try to get independant lab info because so many companies lie just to make a buck(but i'd trust my own tests first because the independent company could have malicious attempts for whatever reason to get people to not buy from a company). Shady companies hope ignorant people will buy a product and "think it made a difference" without any testing or scientific approach. An example, I emailed tornado about what they claimed for hp increases and fuel savings for the 5.3L vortec engines. They said they haven't tested it but guessed about 12hp and 1mpg. I said bullsh!t you haven't tested it...you made one for it right? They didn't have a reply.

350vortec · August 28, 2003

I have the grannatelli maf sensor and if I was you I would save your 350.00 on something that will really make a diff.The gran.maf sensor it to run leaner than the stock one.I could not tell any diff. on perf. either,it would also cause it to ping which I really did not like.Save the money for something else.

Tjwong · August 28, 2003

Are we talking about a MAF (mass air flow sensor) here? If so don't waste your money. An aftermarket sensor most likely will not have the same calibration as a stock GM sensor. The PCM relies on this calibration to determine actual air flow. If you replace it with an aftermarket larger diameter unit the calibration is going to be way off.

The PCM uses the frequency output that is matched to a look up table within the PCM calibration tables. For instance at 10000hz this equates to about 253 gms/sec of air flow in a 8.1L truck calibration. Now if you replace that sensor with a GMS sensor 300+ gm/sec of air maybe flowing through that sensor to get the same frequency output to the PCM. Now what do you think the PCM is going to do?

Well for one its going to be feeding fuel for 253gm/sec because that is what it knows, it doesn't know that someone swapped out its MAF sensor. So what it sees now is that its fueling for 253gm/sec but ohhh S**T my O2 sensors are telling me that I am lean (more air flow, same fuel delivery = lean) so now the PCM is going to adjust this with long term fuel trims to make up for the lean condition.

In time it will "learn" it out as we say. But the LTFT (long term fuel trims) will always be skewed to the rich side because its trying to add fuel to compensate for the incorrect MAF input! One point of interest to all you horsepower mongers, a stock GM MAF will handle more Hp than most of you will care to add in your trucks. A stock Corvette LT1 MAF sensor will handle over 600RWHP! and even at that if it goes off the scale we just tune it with the PE tables anyway. Airflow through the MAF itself will be adequate for 750+ RWHP! Now granted this has been done with supercharged cars in both the Corvette body and the F bodys. These are street cars that are on the ragged edge. Here is link of a friend going into the 9's with his Camaro, this is one example of one that is using the "STOCK" MAF and making some serious Hp.

LJ's 9 Second Camaro

A stock MAF in a typical supercharged 8.1L producing 530Hp is no problem. The sensors in the smaller LS1 style engine will handle in the excess of over 500Hp as well. Save your money and put the doe where it counts to make some real Hp. In the end a aftermarket MAF can be of benefit if it is calibrated or tuned after the fact to work with the PCM correctly. In most cases there will be no gains and in some cases there has been documented loss of power and even poor drivability.