From P0300 and P0219A to P0172 and P0175 in a quarter tank?

[Jason Marsh]

Ok, so a little background here...

2011 Silverado 1500 LT, flex fuel. I never run the E85 because who the hell would pay a premium above the full price of regular premium for regular with less energy per gallon. The only non-ethanol fuel around here is not from a top tier fuel provider, and they want an additional 50 cents/gal for it over the top of the price of 91 octane gasohol, so I don't buy it, ever. I did once, but the small engines in my shed didn't like it, especially my Kohler-equipped Husqy.

I have a fuel drum (you already know where this is going) that I keep for lawn equipment, generator, neighbor needs a hand, etc.. So, I wanted to rotate the remaining fuel stock out and put the last 20 gal or so into three of our vehicles. I started with my truck, which took probably ten gallons or so, then our 2012 Equinox (V6, AWD, sharp looking car for the ol' lady) took about five gallons, and the remaining five or so went into the Hyundai beater we bought to drag behind the motorhome. I "distributed" the fuel last night and parked everything.

 

This morning, I go to drag the fuel trailer to the gas station and the CEL comes on steady, then I feel a miss and shudder, and the CEL is in party mode (flashing). Great! Back to the house I go, thinking the truck had sat for a month or so, maybe there's a rat's nest in the airbox (we're semi-rural and love it), but nothing. I've been rotating the fuel stock once or twice a year for eight years now, and never had any trouble, so I didn't initially think about the fuel. It has been an awfully wet year here, though. The key is that I started the rotation with the truck. It's the only one that objected to the four- or five-months old, and definitely moisture-laden fuel.

 

I checked the DTCs, and got P0300 and P0219A. Lean on bank 1 only, random misfire, too. Hmm, maybe that fuel weren't so good. I got half a tank of bad fuel mixed with what's probably been in the tank for two months already, so now I've got a full load of shoddy fuel. By the time I get the mile or two back to the house, it's cleaned up. Idles good, drives decent, and the CEL is no longer in party mode, but I can feel a miss under acceleration. The water-alcohol-fuel mix must've been "re-blended" by then. I decided to give it some more alcohol (not the good stuff, just some Heet) and Lucas FSC. Get my chores done, and I go to burn out some of the bad fuel. I put a hundred or so miles on to give me some room to dilute the water with some fresh top tier gas. Stop in and top it off with fresh 91 from a Pilot, check the DTCs again. The P0300 and P0219A were still stored (permanent), and I had new ones, too! P0172 and P0175. I didn't have a reference handy and I've shut off data on our carrier to teach that sweet, Equinox-driving gal to be more careful about what she does to our data cap, so I decided to put a few more miles on. I take a scenic 40 mile drive on home and check DTCs again to see what pops up this time. The P0300 isn't set. Yay! The P0219A isn't set. Yay! But the P0172 and P0175 are. Doh!!!

 

My assumption is that it doesn't like to make massive fuel trim swings in such a short time. I'm driving another 200 miles tomorrow to fix my brother's slow-crank 98 Chevy 2500 (been telling him to check for voltage drop for a solid three years, but he's finally tired of buying and installing "bad" batteries and starters), so I'll make sure to check DTCs after warm-up in the morning and again after I get back home. My other thought is the apparently heavily-watered fuel could have been nasty to the O2 sensors.

 

How do you think this will shake out? Will I have to complete actual repairs? What kind? Will it trim out and be OK after the tank is run near dry and filled with fresh go juice? Should I lose my Franziskaner privilege for a week? What's Franziskaner ? It's so. Damn. Good... http://bit.ly/2PAKUT5 

 

 

Update:

Drove down to Little Rock to fix my brother's truck today. 120 Ohms of resistance on the B+ lead to starter, but only had to remove some wiring "adaptation" he'd done years ago to fit a top-post battery a tweaker buddy had given him. I'm truly blessed that he finally went clean a few years ago, but I could still slap him around for his "repair job" on the wiring. Things are looking up for my truck, too. I got better fuel mileage today than I've had in some time. and it ran great all day. Also had 0 DTCs set when I got home. Seems to have corrected itself, but I'll be burning off the rest of the fuel in the next couple of days and follow that with a fresh fuel filter. I may alter my fuel storage plan to include more frequent rotations, as well.

Edited November 2, 2019 by Jason Marsh
Words :)

[Colossus]

I think you just got a bad tank of gas is all. 

[Jsdirt]

The problem with these 900-series trucks (and everything new these days) is they've done away with the return line, and now have only a single line from the fuel pump to the engine, with no return - the fuel pump is duty-cycle controlled by a magic box, located in the most amazingly engineered location possible - directly above the spare tire, where all the rain and road salt can work its magic!!

 

Since you filled the truck first, my guess is, the ethanol-separated puddle of water at the bottom of your fuel barrel got shot right into the Silverado's tank. She's been inhaling a mix of that ever since. It will eventually burn out of there, but it feels like an eternity as it runs like crap - ask me how I know! I now only dump stale fuel in the Volvo 940, or Grand Marquis that I own - 26 and 32 years old respectively. Both have return lines, and both will run on absolute garbage fuel without so much as a hiccup.

 

What I would  do is, if you have access to a scan tool, reset the "fuel composition" - this will bring the alcohol content the computer THINKS is in the tank back down to close to zero (about 3%) - this is what is causing your rich codes. 

 

EDIT just to add, I have a fuel barrel too - I installed a Fill-Rite water separator adaptor on the line that accepts the spin-on, oil-filter-style water separating filters. Also, make sure your barrel is 100% air tight, even if it makes nasty noises in the summer as it heats up (just make sure the pressure doesn't get too stupid in there, but vacuum in cooler weather shouldn't be a problem). In 14 years, I've never once had a water problem, even with year old ethanol fuel from MA.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Jsdirt

[Jason Marsh]

On 11/2/2019 at 7:35 PM, Jsdirt said:

1) ...no fuel return line...

 

2) ...I now only dump stale fuel in the Volvo 940, or Grand Marquis...both will run on absolute garbage fuel without so much as a hiccup...

 

3) ...Fill-Rite water separator...

1) I didn't realize it was a returnless fuel system. Honestly, I haven't had to pop the hood to do anything except scheduled maintenance, cleanup, replace the battery, install an Anderson SB50 for jumper cables, and evict a pack rat or two.

 

2) Those older vehicles may not have all the bells and whistles, and they may not get great mileage, satisfy the smog cops, or impress the ladies much, but reliability rivaling that of a Sherman tank is one hell of a characteristic to have, and they have it in spades!

 

3) Only hours before I did the foul deed of pumping all that nastiness into my fuel tanks, I was at Tractor Supply and eyeballed one of those fuel/water separators. My cheap ass thought "nah, I ain't had no problems with water."

 

Edited November 7, 2019 by Jason Marsh