Which is the Best 1/2 ton PU ?

[HoustonPerson]

Part 1

 

Who makes the best Pick-Up Truck?

 

This is just a very plain comparison by “Average Joe Consumer”; but with some specific needs in buying a new truck. Because of that you should know a little about me. First of all I really do not like trucks. They are too big, and waste gas, and pollute much more then cars. Second, over the last several years I have become somewhat partial to Toyota. And during my lifetime I have owned seven Toyotas, they all have been good cars, a couple have been very good. The total number of personal cars I have owned is 36. So most of you can tell I am an “old guy”. You can interpret that as you want; experience to highly opinionated, or set is my ways. During the 70’s I also purchased a few hundred Fords and Chevs for “oil company” fleet. Back then it was customary to purchase at $10, $25, and seldom $50 over “real invoice”. Depending on the specific make and model that would equate to 22.5% to 28% off MSRP. Yep times have changed.

 

You should also know that the last Ford I purchased was a 1986 “Lemon”, and I swore off Fords for good. Out of seven Fords, four were “Lemons”. A “Lemon” is defined by me as a vehicle that is unreliable, and leaves you stranded on more then one occasion. To be specific, that last 1986 Ford only had 6,000 miles on it when I traded in for an Acura, and I never looked back. 4,000 of those miles where put on it by the Ford dealer trying to make it work. During the six months that I owned it, the longest time frame it ever worked was TEN days. The last Chev I owned was a 1995 Silverado Ext Cab, loaded step side. I would have called that vehicle fair to good. While it never broke down like the numerous Fords I had, it did have several malfunctions; AC breakdowns, passenger chair tracks could never be fixed by the dealer, always came loose from the floor, poor drivability – but alas it did work, and when traded off it had 89,000 miles.

[HoustonPerson]

Part 2

 

WAKEBOARDING ROCKS!

 

Those two words, explain it all. You either understand it or you don’t. I am an avid wakeboarding waterskiing nut. Yes I am a Granddad that Wakeboards, and it’s a blast! And the boat I plan to get, the Malibu 23XTi Wakesetter.

 

http://www.malibuboats.com/splash_index.asp

Select this web page, and then select “Extreme Entrance” (if you have a real computer)

Then drill down to 23XTi Wakesetter. You can also order a full length free.DVD from them; life is a blast, have fun.

 

Currently, I steal “rides” whenever and wherever I can, even driving all the way to Dallas if I have to.

[HoustonPerson]

Part 3

 

 

TRUCK REQUIREMENTS:

 

Here are the truck requirements: 4x4, off-road pkg (if available), LSD, 4 door (i.e. CrewCab), it can not be longer then 230” and I prefer the 225” area. It must be comfortable for 4 to 6 guys, to be able to travel one to four hours weekly for good water, glass. The truck will be “fully” loaded (basically all options) and may even include the back seat DVD to review wakeboard training videos or to review the previous weeks ride. A major issue in having a 4 door truck, is to fill it up with people, so that everyone can ride in comfort. It is absolutely astonishing to me that several of the truck companies to not get or understand this. To me riding in comfort, should be like riding in a big 4 door car, so everybody has plenty of room. This will also replace my 4 door car, and be used for commuting as well.

 

THE COMPETITORS:

 

Ford F150 Lariat Super Crew short box.

Chevrolet LT CrewCab 1500 short box, may or may not include Z71 pkg (unknown)

Toyota Tundra Double Cab Limited.

Nissan Titan LE.

 

The MSRP of those trucks typically run between $35,000 to $40,000 and therefore I expect a lot, and as the consumer (and the zillions others like me) should get it.

[HoustonPerson]

Part 4

 

DETAILED COMPARISONS:

 

The link below provides a comparison of the four trucks via Nissan. Unfortunately, it reflects the Chev Ext Cab and not the CrewCab, which will not be here till first quarter of 2004. Those of you will slow connections it will take a long time to come up. You can also reconstruct it yourself by going direct to the Nissan web site. This Nissan comparison is only about 80% to 90% correct, so accept it at face value. Pricing on the truck comparisons is wrong, and in some cases what is or is not standard or optional is wrong. I have also notice that “Nissan” changes and corrects this “link” quite often, so you may have to reselect the 4 trucks accordingly. Remember to use the drop down link on the left after you have selected all four trucks to “select all” under category.

 

http://us.nissan.clientsites.carspecs.jato...=62466620031121

 

For details on the actual Chevrolet, I provide these four links:

 

Z71 short box crew with 6.0L engine, this truck may or may not be made?

http://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/index.php?...showtopic=23753

 

LT short box crew with 5.3L, it will be made and the additional links down the left hand side will highlight the interior, mechanicals, towing, etc.

http://www.chevrolet.com/silverado/multimedia/halfton/

 

 

LT/Z71 short box color interior/exterior leather options – NICE !

(you should be able to select color choices with the mouse here)

http://www.chevrolet.com/silverado/multime...lfton_color.htm

[HoustonPerson]

Part 5

 

A couple of specific item overviews of all four trucks:

 

Engines: There has been much “to do” about horse power and torque. Most of it is not worth discussion. Generally, in all reality the HP and torque on the four engines is very similar. There is no question, that DOHC is a vastly superior engine design. Both Ford and Chev have immediate access to it, and shame on them for not using it. The charts clearly show that the Toyota has more torque for pulling a boat then Chev. Yes Virginia, 315lb-ft@3400(Toyota) is a good deal more then 330lb-ft@4000(Chev). The Toyota only has about 8% less torque then the Ford 365lb-ft@3750. Yes the Toyota is more anemic on HP, but it is the torque you need to get things going with a boat in tow. Out of those four engines the Chev is the weakest, and it too, is acceptable to pull a boat. There is one specific problem with the Toyota engine, and that is cruising at highway speed 70mph with boat; if you need to pass in the typical 40mph Texas headwind, then forget it, there is no more HP left, and you have gone beyond maximum torque, BUMMER. This has nothing to do with DOHC, but is merely a function of smaller displacement and poor breathing, and in that case the Chev would do a little better. If Chev does offer the 6.0L in the 1500 CrewCab short box, then of course I would select that engine; but again the gains are minimal. The Titan does have the advantage here (except the Chev 6.0L). I have driven the Ford, Chev, and Toyota enough to know and feel the difference. My rankings from weakest to strongest are:

1. Chev 5.3L

2. Toyota 4.7L

3. Ford 5.4L

4. Titan 5.6L

5. Chev 6.0L

Each step up in engine, 1-5 above, is a modest increase capability; but by the time you get from 1 and jump to 5, you can really feel and sense the difference.

 

Frame: The winner here is Ford. You have to drive this vehicle off-road to appreciate the integrity of the chassis, frame, and body. Chev is like jello, and the Toyota is only a little better then that. I have not driven the Nissan, so I can’t really say, but the paper specs of full length box frame say a lot, but obviously the cross member pass through double welding on the Ford is the way to go.

[HoustonPerson]

Part 6

 

Sound Systems: Most guys are not really interested in a connoisseur sound systems, I am. To me that means clear natural sound with no distortion throughout the entire sound spectrum at any volume. I spent about 30 minutes in both the Fords systems (with and without audiophile). I was not impressed. My biggest complaint with the Ford was major distortion; remember most people will not notice this. The top end Bose in the Chev (7 speaker) I would rank very good to excellent, and the same goes for the Toyota (8 speaker) JBL system, maybe with a slight lead to the Toyota. The poor audio quality of the Ford just did not measure up to today’s standards. My son-in-law has the new 2004 FX4 Screw with “audiophile” so during the next month I will try to spend a good deal of time to sort things out and test more carefully. On the Titan sound see the Titan section below.

 

Seats: The winner here is Chev. What can I say? 10-way power seats both sides, in a choice of “three” different colors of leather all “standard”. Front and back seats are excellent, lots of room. Remember, this is for 4 to 6 guys to ride in comfort long distance. Titan gets an F (see below). Toyota gets a C for the back seat and an C, or F or ? (see below) for the front seats. Ford gets an F on the back seat; I could take it out all together and have everyone sit on the floor? Spend some time looking at the “detailed” side by side comparison link provided above via Nissan and you will clearly see all the Red “Xs” by both Ford and Toyota which have failed to deliver on interior comfort. How have both Ford and Toyota missed this so completely when Chev and Nissan have not? A $40,000 truck without seats?

[HoustonPerson]

Part 7

 

Specific Details on Each Truck:

 

NISSAN TITAN:

 

First let me say this about Titan. I have tried everyway possible to consider the Titan the winner. On paper (the specs) and in the press (all the rags) it is declared the “winner”. In my lifetime I can count numerous “award winning cars” that in the real world have turned out to be dogs! It has a zillion good things going for it: Side curtain air bags, advanced traction control systems, DOHC, suppose to be a killer radio 350 watts, 10 speakers, huge back seats, and the list goes on and on. And the Titan has tons more content then any of the others at far less costs. However; any one of the following three items will keep me from buying this vehicle, (yes it is “ugly” but that is not a part of my review).

 

1. BUGS: Yes, I said “bugs”. Those nasty things in Texas that you get all over the front of your car or truck. In Texas our mosquitoes are bigger than birds are in most states. You can easily tell that Nissan folks are not “Real Truck People”. We also have “Love Bugs” (real name FB) by the zillions. Then there are the “dragon flys”, I swear the wing span on some of those critters are 8” to 10”. If you have ever owned a vehicle with tall vertical painted surfaces (like a Preiva mini van) then you know what I am talking about. There is NO WAY those large vertical painted surfaces and plastic chrome will last one year on the highway in Texas. I have been there and done that with 3 Previa’s at 90,000 miles each. Vertical painted panels and plastic chrome pieces can not withstand Texas! I will not buy this truck for that reason alone. I have much better things to do, then spending 3 to 4 additional hours each week cleaning and waxing the bugs off the front of the truck. I do not want 18 square feet of bra either! The design of the Ford, Chev, and Toyota clearly win here, the bugs will pass right through.

 

2. The windshield rake: This is a major design flaw. It creates big blind spots on the A pillars. This design flaw is a major safety issue. Creates unnecessary heat build up from sunlight on the dash, and reduces engine access (the dash protrudes out over the engine (can we say stupid here). And it places the top of the windshield unnecessarily close to your forehead.

[HoustonPerson]

Part 8

 

3. Quality of interior materials, and the “tailoring” of those materials. Can we say 1955 “International Harvester”? For the younger crowed the Yugoslavia Yugo had far better interior. My wife wanted to see the 2004 Acura the TL (she is spoiled cause she already has a 2003 TLS), so we had just left the dealership on our way to see the Titan LE 4 door. On the $33,000 TL, the quality of the materials and fit and finish was “excellent”. (Side Note: Attention all truck companies this is the type of quality people want in a $40,000 truck!) I would have expected the $38,000 Titan to be the same. If that was real leather on the seats and on the doors, which Nissan claims it is, then my real name is Ben Affleck. The color choice of “puke yellow” combined with “piss grey” do not work. But here is the real problem; the leather or vinyl, or whatever it was, had broken seams all up and down the seats, seams with the bare thread showing where the panels of material where sewn together, or should I say NOT sewn together. Both the “Yugo” and the 1955 “International Harvester” are vastly superior in this respect. Was it “unfair” of me to compare it to the Acura TL interior which cost $5,000 less – absolutely NOT. And for the record the Titan exterior paint, fit, and finish was excellent. Nissan is not expecting to sell that crap are they? More details on the Titan interior: It gets an F because of the less than “Yugo” quality, it should be Lexus quality. As far as, space and comfort, for all passengers, it gets a B+. That is something neither Ford nor Toyota has done.

 

I can not emphasize enough, that I wanted the Titan to be my new truck; but anyone of those three items will keep me from buying it.

[HoustonPerson]

Part 9

 

TOYOTA:

 

Man the Toyota has so much going for it. It has a proven DOHC V8. It is totally quite, and butter smooth has all the torque you could need or use from 0 to 50mph; but it very anemic with the boat on the highway. You can get the full “Stability Control” system. Guys these things can be big life savers. So here are the major problems with the Toyota.

 

Seats: As I said earlier, they get a C for the back seat. Keep in mind both the front and back seats were taken directly out of the Sequoia; and therein lies the problem. Maybe they are ok for “soccer moms” but that is about it. This is a $35,000 to $40,000 truck and not having front and back seats equal to or better the Chev LT is completely inexcusable. Now for the details on the seats and why this is a totally screwed up mess. On the top end “Limited” - clothe is standard, not leather. The fit and finish on that clothe is very good, almost excellent (keep in mind that $40,000 figure now – get the picture!) Next Problem: “Factory” leather is $1,060 but that only includes ONE power seat (remember that $40,000 now). You can not get another power seat, even the crummy Sequoia had at least Fake Power Seat – it is only 2 way; front and back – why bother? There is ONLY one color available “Oak” no rich grey color like the clothe seats. The finish on the factory leather is good, not excellent. Next Problem: GST and SET; that stands for Gulf States Toyota and South East Toyota. These are mafia type organizations that control the distribution of all Toyotas in Texas and the surround states, and in Florida and the southeastern states. The very GOOD aspect about these organizations is that they foster fierce competition among Toyota dealers in their regions. And certain dealers and get better incentives (more profit) for doing a better job with the customer, if that dealer is willing to take advantage of the programs. The BAD is that the vehicles are price padded to the hilt with useless junk. And this includes complete destruction of the factory seats for added profit. Their programs work like this, rip out the expertly tailored clothe seats, and put in the lowest quality, poor fitting leather and vinyl, you can find. Those seats get an F! Oh yes, you still pay about $1,020 extra, and you still do not get power seats. (Remember that $40,000 now). Next Problem: The seat cushions are way too small, and the fold down arm rest are way too narrow, about 1” wide. Overall a very poor seat design front and back. Toyota needs to look directly to the Chev LT crewcab package, and should solve the problem with immediate production line changes, with full factory leather, full 10-way power both sides.

[HoustonPerson]

Part 10

 

Engine: Yep it needs more power. Bring it on.

 

I might still get the Toyota, but that means I would have to have the interior remade and that is a pain in the butt. Remember it already cost $40,000. Toyota fails as a “people mover” and is very weak to pull a boat. Hello, Toyota – both of these items are very easy fixes!

[HoustonPerson]

Part 11

 

FORD:

 

Seats: Back seat. It is completely useless, or very close to it. The grade is F. Remember the intended purpose of having a 4 door truck is so that everyone can ride in comfort, and to replace the need for a four door car. Why have all the doors and chairs if they don’t work? Front seat: Look again at the Nissan provided details on paper (link at the beginning) and you see that Ford and Toyota just do not get the seats. There have already been dozens of posting all over the web, about the seat problems in the new F150. The cushions are too small, full power is NOT available. I will give the Ford about a B on the front seats. Their arm rest solution, on the bucket seats is even better then Chev. But the small size cushions, and lack of full power, is inexcusable on a $40,000 truck. The fit and finish of the inside materials is superior to Toyota! Many have said Lexus quality, and I agree. This is so funny, because it is the exact opposite of the Titan! The seat problems on the Ford can be changed immediately on the production line, for the improvements required. This is a no brain-er, they are so close to getting it right!

 

Frame: It is the undisputed winner for frame and body structure. And this truck is the hottest looking of all – Yes Granddad said it

[HoustonPerson]

Part 12

 

Engine: Danger! Realistically, only the long term use can determine if the 3 valve system is reliable and trouble free, on a large displacement V8. Here is what I see as the problems: They have used a single overhead cam for three valves. If memory serves me correctly, that will start to cause problems within 50,000 miles. Primarily carbon build up, due to the mal-formed cylinder heads. With the cam directly over the center of each bank of cylinders, then all three valves must enter the combustion chamber at a significantly offset angle. The DOHC engines have 4 valves per cylinder, but more importantly, each cam carries two valve stems per cylinder entering the combustion chamber, directly from above, or more importantly to the design offset required by engineering for correct combustion chamber “form”; thus not being restricted to the hard set angle required by a single OHC. There is no reason Ford should not be using full DOHC, after all they have full access to it. I believe it is done solely for initial cost considerations; but from a full financial standpoint; this could cost them big time when claims start coming in. Ford has a long running history of coming out with innovative stuff that does not work. They also have a history of taking the cheap way out, which costs them later. This may be another one? After all, this has already (and recently) happened to Chev, and their design was not exotic at all. http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/knock1...14_20031114.htm

[HoustonPerson]

Part 13

 

CHEVROLET:

 

Seats: Really no problem here and the clear winner, and the vehicle (in the real world market place) is about $6,000 less then Toyota.

 

Frame and Chassis: Really has not changed since 1950’s. Very flimsy frame. Torsion Bar suspension – Can we say 1957 Chrysler New Yorker. I remember when those things would snap and break all the time. Talk about antique technology. Recirculating Ball steering. You mean that is still used? It is “funny” steering, when you turn the wheel on the freeway, you will notice all the others cars moving and not yours. Yikes!

 

Engine: Push Rod V8. Chevrolet has been using the same stuff since the 1950’s and it shows. You would think that during the last 50 years they could make it work, at least work a lot better. The third generation Vortec is now becoming a big problem for a lot of owners: http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/knock1...14_20031114.htm

Look how much this mis-take is going to cost them, when they could have been using their own DOHC which has already been perfected. This simplification in engine lines could save GM millions per year. In any event they claim they have now fixed the Vortec problems. Yeah right, remember I’m an old, how many times have I heard that line.

[HoustonPerson]

Part 14

 

AND THE WINNER IS?

 

I still have no idea which truck I am going to buy, and still have about four months to go anyway. For one thing, I will be waiting to see the new Chevrolet; and hopefully it may have the 6.0L. That vehicle can most easily replace a 4 door car that can carry people, and it is about 225” long so it will fit in the garage. Yes, I know that old time 1950 technology may be the way to go. The lesser of all evils so to speak. It is so funny, with all the high quality cars made today; you would think someone could make a high quality truck. They all certainly have the super high price!

 

Here is what we will see in the next six months. The biggest discounts ever on Trucks. The Ford dealer just a few miles from my house has 400 2004 F150 that he has not moved in two months. The Tundra DC is not selling, and regional discounts are popping up every where. There are giving Chevs away and that will continue to expand. I think Dodges are now free? Oh man, the Titan monster. I know that Wall Street will be watching closely, this could take Nissan completely under. They have spent zillions on something that will not sell, Yikes!

[HoustonPerson]

Part 15

 

Of course we all know how stupid the big car companies are; when units don’t sell, its discount time. America is in need of a real truck, that is reliable and trouble free, they still do not realize that the first company to provide that to the public wins the truck game. Here are the solutions for each.

 

Nissan: If you can completely re-design for the three items within two years, your company might survive. That “Thang” ain’t no truck. Man, if Nissan sinks because of this, does that mean Infinity goes too?

 

Ford: If you fix the front and back seats NOW, you could capture first place very quickly, by a wide margin, and you could maintain it for the long term. You will also have to provide a safety net for that “experimental” engine. The fact that there is no long term warranty or buy-back provision, well what can I say? It’s just cheap on Fords part.

 

Toyota: You got the easiest and least expensive job of all. Within twelve months your total sales of Tundra could increase 3 to 6 times. Fix all the seats, front and back, the cab has tons of space, width and length to do it. That could be fixed in less than two months. And for engine power, if you don’t have a more capable V8 now, they buy either the old timie 6.0L V8 from GM, or the GM NorthStar. Better yet, Titan is going to have a huge over supply of V8s, and I bet the price will be cheap. You can buy all the V8s you need there. You would be surprised how successful and acceptable that would be for truck buyers.

 

Chevrolet: Well I think you get the picture. I guess you can stay with all the 1950 stuff as long as you want. But by February, I assume your discounts are going to be $10,000 per unit. The LT still has the seats, so people can ride in comfort, and it will still tow a boat, 1950’s or not. And of course funny steering is fun! It’s like LSD or something, neat - “No Officer, I was not drinking – I have no idea why everyone left the highway when I turned the wheel?” Reliability is not too good, but oh well you can not have everything, or can you?

 

AND THE WINNER IS:

There is NONE.

 

Let’s see: There is “Build-A-Truck”……Start with the Ford frame, Titan V8, etc. etc. etc.