4WD Engagement / Break-In - First Time Owner, Education Needed

[Chuck FB]

14 hours ago, revrnd said:

I looked online & it appears that GM is the only OEM using NVG/Magna cases, the others use Borg Warner or Dana.

 

Back in the day, New Process 203s, 205s & 208s seemed to be used across the board.

Did you happen to have a link to the information on the more recent 4 auto transfer cases for the GM trucks, so far anything I had come across was an article talking about auto transfer cases but it dates back 15 years ago so I have no idea if its the same transfer case now or even designated by the same model number. The article talks about the MP 3023/3024 NQH and the light duty version mated to the 4L60E and the heavy duty version being the 3024 which they stated went behind the 6L90. Any transmission/transfer case rebuilding companies that I have seen pop up never talk about the auto transfer cases which I find odd. Which also makes me wonder what transfer case is behind the duramax, if its the same as the gas 6.6 or something else.

[revrnd]

1 minute ago, Chuck FB said:

Did you happen to have a link to the information on the more recent 4 auto transfer cases for the GM trucks, so far anything I had come across was an article talking about auto transfer cases but it dates back 15 years ago so I have no idea if its the same transfer case now or even designated by the same model number. The article talks about the MP 3023/3024 NQH and the light duty version mated to the 4L60E and the heavy duty version being the 3024 which they stated went behind the 6L90. Any transmission/transfer case rebuilding companies that I have seen pop up never talk about the auto transfer cases which I find odd. Which also makes me wonder what transfer case is behind the duramax, if its the same as the gas 6.6 or something else.

No I didn't. I wasn't really looking for specific models, just who the vendors were.

[Chuck FB]

38 minutes ago, revrnd said:

No I didn't. I wasn't really looking for specific models, just who the vendors were.

I finally came across a rebuild vendor that did list up to 2022 model GM HD trucks, while it doesn't explain if there are any internal differences between the gas and diesel versions, at that time there were two versions for the HD trucks and both called the 3024, one for the gas to mate with the 6L90 with a 29 spline input shaft and an 8 bolt housing pattern although they don't "say" 6L90 trans. The other for the duramax with a 33 spline input and a 12 bolt housing pattern and again they don't say what that auto trans is but it would have to be the 10L1000. I can only speculate they end at 2022 because the newer trucks would tend to potentially have warranty yet on the driveline. Now that the 2024/2025 gas truck uses the similar auto transmission to the duramax, I suppose there is a chance both truck engine types might use the same trans, I am speculating though as that would depend if the input used the same shaft spline count etc. I may as well link that old article from 15 years ago on the 3023/3024 transfer case as it talks some of how it operates internally and gives a parts drawing break down.

 

https://www.transmissiondigest.com/the-magna-powertrain-mp3023-3024-nqh/

[revrnd]

My brother's 2024 Dmax has the Auto-trac case. Next time he's here & the driveway is dry, I'll crawl under it.

[Chuck FB]

26 minutes ago, revrnd said:

My brother's 2024 Dmax has the Auto-trac case. Next time he's here & the driveway is dry, I'll crawl under it.

While I have been under my truck ( topping off fluids that all should have been full including the transfer case ), I never thought to look for a tag on it at the time. I don't have it here at home at the moment but if I think of it at some point I will have to look and see if there is a tag and what it says on it.

 

Since your brother has the diesel version, I expect he talks about how utterly fantastic the fuel mileage is and how much power it has LOL.

Edited March 26, 2025 by Chuck FB

[revrnd]

45 minutes ago, Chuck FB said:

While I have been under my truck ( topping off fluids that all should have been full including the transfer case ), I never thought to look for a tag on it at the time. I don't have it here at home at the moment but if I think of it at some point I will have to look and see if there is a tag and what it says on it.

 

Since your brother has the diesel version, I expect he talks about how utterly fantastic the fuel mileage is and how much power it has LOL.

This is his 3rd Dmax over the years, so it's not his 1st rodeo. Going from the 6 L gassers to the 6.6 L gasser w/ the 10 speed, the performance 'upgrade' is quite noticeable for me.

[Chuck FB]

2 minutes ago, revrnd said:

This is his 3rd Dmax over the years, so it's not his 1st rodeo. Going from the 6 L gassers to the 6.6 L gasser w/ the 10 speed, the performance 'upgrade' is quite noticeable for me.

I've never owned a 6.0 gas, I've test driven them and at the time thought the empty pickup performance was very acceptable in my world. While I have ridden in duramax trucks I have never even test driven one and never saw the point to doing that and having a lust after the power and buying it for that reason rather than practicality for its intended purpose. From trucks I have been driving for numerous years ( aside from highway tractors ), I expect this one to have a fair jump in performance empty wise and can only do better than what I have been using when it comes to towing anything. I don't have a set goal for towing a particular trailer extensively as otherwise my purchase would probably have been different. Every time I see a guy walking out of a store carrying a jug of DEF in his hands or see someone make a beeline to the stack of DEF boxes in a store, that is something I won't have to deal with or worry about freezing like a block sitting in the box of the pickup and then can't pour it or have someone make the mistake of pouring DEF into my diesel tank. Or have diesel gel in the tank/filter because it wasn't rated for that cold a weather.

[revrnd]

He tows a 5th Wheel, so the truck is being used. But I here you on the diesels of all makes, that just sit in driveways.

 

Back in the 90s when I was pricing out a truck, the salesman thought it was a company truck & suggested the diesel. "No it's a personal use truck". He asked me 3 questions & after hearing my answers, he agreed that specing it w/ a diesel would be pointless.

[Chuck FB]

2 hours ago, revrnd said:

He tows a 5th Wheel, so the truck is being used. But I here you on the diesels of all makes, that just sit in driveways.

 

Back in the 90s when I was pricing out a truck, the salesman thought it was a company truck & suggested the diesel. "No it's a personal use truck". He asked me 3 questions & after hearing my answers, he agreed that specing it w/ a diesel would be pointless.

Yes, if the truck I had bought had a true 100 % goal/purpose in mind like towing a larger RV trailer or an equipment trailer, then I would have gone the diesel route rather than force a gas truck to do something a bit over its head and that important other feature with the pickup diesels is the exhaust brake they have had for the last number of years. Once a person has had experience behind the wheel of a highway tractor hauling relatively heavy loads with the use of a jake and then it goes out for a simple reason of an electrical issue, that is when one really realizes even more so how dependent one is on the jake to survive to another day !. Of course if I was into insanely large/heavy fifth wheel holiday trailers I would sure like to be towing it around with a highway tractor

 

But the reality is that I can see myself using this truck here and there to tow a few things, some farm equipment items and so forth that a half ton should not be towing but more than likely a lot of the time will just be hauling items in the back and the typical running around town to various businesses and getting groceries etc, basic transportation and dealing with less than ideal winter road conditions to the rural farm area I live. Most of it can be done with a half ton pickup for sure but wanted to sit up higher, have more clearance, more ability when I need it and yet not have to deal with the diesel issues. Also a gas engine is more winter friendly and this one does have the shutters as well and gas engines just naturally warm up faster as a diesel can take quite a while to get some warmth happening when it gets nasty cold. Every vehicle is always a compromise if trying to do multiple things with it as there is no perfect vehicle that does everything the best.

[revrnd]

12 minutes ago, Chuck FB said:

Yes, if the truck I had bought had a true 100 % goal/purpose in mind like towing a larger RV trailer or an equipment trailer, then I would have gone the diesel route rather than force a gas truck to do something a bit over its head and that important other feature with the pickup diesels is the exhaust brake they have had for the last number of years. Once a person has had experience behind the wheel of a highway tractor hauling relatively heavy loads with the use of a jake and then it goes out for a simple reason of an electrical issue, that is when one really realizes even more so how dependent one is on the jake to survive to another day !. Of course if I was into insanely large/heavy fifth wheel holiday trailers I would sure like to be towing it around with a highway tractor

 

But the reality is that I can see myself using this truck here and there to tow a few things, some farm equipment items and so forth that a half ton should not be towing but more than likely a lot of the time will just be hauling items in the back and the typical running around town to various businesses and getting groceries etc, basic transportation and dealing with less than ideal winter road conditions to the rural farm area I live. Most of it can be done with a half ton pickup for sure but wanted to sit up higher, have more clearance, more ability when I need it and yet not have to deal with the diesel issues. Also a gas engine is more winter friendly and this one does have the shutters as well and gas engines just naturally warm up faster as a diesel can take quite a while to get some warmth happening when it gets nasty cold. Every vehicle is always a compromise if trying to do multiple things with it as there is no perfect vehicle that does everything the best.

 

Yes & diesels have required considerably more maintenance as the years have gone by, since the 90s. You really have to justify their use w/ the added expense nowadays. Mind you there are a lot out there that just sit in driveways...

[Chuck FB]

12 minutes ago, revrnd said:

 

Yes & diesels have required considerably more maintenance as the years have gone by, since the 90s. You really have to justify their use w/ the added expense nowadays. Mind you there are a lot out there that just sit in driveways...

I bet there are those that own them and they just are not getting any of the true intended use out of them, and if they do too much in the way of short trips in town and worse during the winter and idling them a lot, that will catch up to them. It all depends if they keep flipping them before the warranty is up but then some used buyer will get hit with the mess and have to fork out to replace the whole plugged up emissions system.

 

It makes sense though if one looks at the percentage of diesel vs gas HD trucks on large dealership lots, the diesels far outnumber the gas trucks, and typically the gas trucks are low to mid trim and the diesels are from one end to the other of the spectrum and I doubt all of those buyers of the diesel Denali Ultimate's or the diesel AT4X bought them to just to use them as a work truck. For example a few months back I went to an establishment that was recommended to do PPF and so forth and the owner took me into the shop to show a couple of examples of places they were protecting on a brand new diesel AT4X and he made the comment that this one and one just like it that they also had worked on were bought by a couple of friends who had the money to buy them literally as toys, no intent to really do anything with them other than own them and literally be toys ... sort of like those that buy top end sports cars and drive them once in a while, weather dependent. Not knocking anyone that does that with their diesel, just that the crappy emissions will kick and scream at some point.

[revrnd]

58 minutes ago, Chuck FB said:

I bet there are those that own them and they just are not getting any of the true intended use out of them, and if they do too much in the way of short trips in town and worse during the winter and idling them a lot, that will catch up to them. It all depends if they keep flipping them before the warranty is up but then some used buyer will get hit with the mess and have to fork out to replace the whole plugged up emissions system.

 

It makes sense though if one looks at the percentage of diesel vs gas HD trucks on large dealership lots, the diesels far outnumber the gas trucks, and typically the gas trucks are low to mid trim and the diesels are from one end to the other of the spectrum and I doubt all of those buyers of the diesel Denali Ultimate's or the diesel AT4X bought them to just to use them as a work truck. For example a few months back I went to an establishment that was recommended to do PPF and so forth and the owner took me into the shop to show a couple of examples of places they were protecting on a brand new diesel AT4X and he made the comment that this one and one just like it that they also had worked on were bought by a couple of friends who had the money to buy them literally as toys, no intent to really do anything with them other than own them and literally be toys ... sort of like those that buy top end sports cars and drive them once in a while, weather dependent. Not knocking anyone that does that with their diesel, just that the crappy emissions will kick and scream at some point.

 

Like the $135,000 CDN Denali Ultimate 3500HD SRW a friend told me he was a co-driver on a dealer trade (don't ask) last fall after I did mine. My only thought was 'Why?' It would be interesting to know the break down of duallies vs SRWs in the 1 ton segment. I haven't looked @ the specs, but if you actually needed a 1 ton, wouldn't the duallie be the way to go? To me a SRW would just be a glorified 3/4 ton.

 

And yes, I am aware of not 'using' a diesel is just as bad as abusing it.

Edited March 27, 2025 by revrnd

[Chuck FB]

45 minutes ago, revrnd said:

 

Like the $135,000 CDN Denali Ultimate 3500HD SRW a friend told me he was a co-driver on a dealer trade (don't ask) last fall after I did mine. My only thought was 'Why?' It would be interesting to know the break down of duallies vs SRWs in the 1 ton segment. I haven't looked @ the specs, but if you actually needed a 1 ton, wouldn't the duallie be the way to go? To me a SRW would just be a glorified 3/4 ton.

 

And yes, I am aware of not 'using' a diesel is just as bad as abusing it.

The price of the Ultimate, into early winter the main GM dealer in the area for some unknown reason to me jacked the prices up well above MSRP, starting from AT4 having some and went up and up from there, the Ultimates were either 5 or 6 grand on top of MSRP. Blew me away and I don't think they were moving any either as a result, into Feb of this year there was a sudden change and it shot back down. That is a good question as to what percentage of 1 ton SRW vs dual is being sold. I can say in this area that what they list on the dealers websites ( not all trucks are listed, company fleet trucks are often never put on as they are already sold and never to be seen by the person walking into a dealership ) , of the GM/Chev HD trucks the SRW 1 ton is by far the highest volume truck they have in stock or coming from the factory, after that its maybe 3/4 over dually. I would also say that what they show on the websites are 3 times the SRW 1 ton vs the 3/4 ton. I have noticed in some states its very much the other way around with piles of 3/4 tons and far fewer SRW 1 tons.

 

Which brings me to the comment about the SRW 1 ton being a glorified 3/4 ton and you are absolutely right, it is for the most part with the gas truck. In the diesel version with the GM, they then use the larger 12" rear end and possibly a larger drive shaft etc or so its been said so they don't have to use torque management in the low gears. And there is the ratings differences although I am not even sure myself as to the towing portion if that is different or the weight that the truck can carry which gets into the amount of weight a fifth wheel pin can allowably carry. But your right that the dually is the "it" truck when it comes to larger trailers, slide i campers, rigged up as a mechanics truck or a mini deck truck etc. One of the reasons a SRW truck for some uses in the oil patch is better is that a dually tire set turn into one big wide slick in the mud as the mud totally packs in between the duals and without chains can be a struggle where a SRW can get through without chaining up but also easier to chain up. A lot of SRW 1 tons and their twin 3/4 tons get sold on the Ritchie sales here so companies sure use them both.

 

I had initially planned on buying a 3/4 ton but when I realized that my insurance would be somewhat lower by buying a 1 ton instead and if I decided to get a slide in camper, perhaps it was not all bad just to buy a 1 ton. However it is a short box so not ideal for a camper and again a dually long box would be the proper truck to be using for a camper. However I would not want to be driving around town as a truck for transportation and parking that as a crew cab long box dually, again a compromise truck is what I bought.

 

My diesel comment, that wasn't intended to sound like it was directed at you, it was in speaking of those that buy a diesel and really have no clue what hidden issues they may have by owning one and using it the way they are in a put-zing around way. I expect a number of the 3.0 duramax are sold in that way of some who buy them that putter around vs those that drive longer distances where they can regen properly.

[Chuck FB]

I have a correction to my prior information findings, since after all that was from back in 2010, it makes sense that the transfercase is an upgrade from then given the added power of the duramax.

 

I had just opened a pinned thread from 2019 where Newdude had provided fluid types and volumes for the various driveline components and he had listed the model of the transfercase for the HD, its one number up yet from what I had come across before and imagine its a higher torque capacity transfercase. I am not sure if its used on both the diesel and gas though. I will post the first line of the informational document from GM that contains the model number, also the link to the GM document for the 2020 model year HD trucks taken from the service manual.

 

The Magna Powertrain (MP) model 3025 RPO NQH transfer case is a 2 speed automatic, active transfer case (ATC). The MP 3025 ATC provides 5 modes, Auto 4WD, 4HI, 4LO, 2HI and NEUTRAL.

 

https://estimate.mymitchell.com/GMC/document/4/9/9/1/7/100314027_4991738_14196568.html

[revrnd]

On 3/27/2025 at 12:45 AM, Chuck FB said:

 

 

Which brings me to the comment about the SRW 1 ton being a glorified 3/4 ton and you are absolutely right, it is for the most part with the gas truck. In the diesel version with the GM, they then use the larger 12" rear end and possibly a larger drive shaft etc or so its been said so they don't have to use torque management in the low gears. And there is the ratings differences although I am not even sure myself as to the towing portion if that is different or the weight that the truck can carry which gets into the amount of weight a fifth wheel pin can allowably carry. But your right that the dually is the "it" truck when it comes to larger trailers, slide i campers, rigged up as a mechanics truck or a mini deck truck etc. One of the reasons a SRW truck for some uses in the oil patch is better is that a dually tire set turn into one big wide slick in the mud as the mud totally packs in between the duals and without chains can be a struggle where a SRW can get through without chaining up but also easier to chain up. A lot of SRW 1 tons and their twin 3/4 tons get sold on the Ritchie sales here so companies sure use them both.

 

 

 

On the 1st part I should've added that yes, the rear axle would've been different plus the added spring leaves, but if I went from my 3/4 to a 1 ton, the motor & trans would've been the same. It's not like I'd be able to get a 8.1 L & beefier transmission, by moving up.

 

I had never thought of the mud situation w/ a duallie. I recall seeing either a GMT400 or GMT800 back in the plant after being used in the tar sands of Alberta. It was quite the mess. Apparently they had quite the cleaning process.

 

[quote]

Cleaning trucks in the oil sands involves removing heavy bitumen, tar, and oil deposits using specialized equipment and cleaning solutions, often requiring high-pressure steam or powerful degreasers. 

 

Here's a more detailed look at the process:

• The Challenge:

  The oil sands environment presents a unique challenge for cleaning, as the heavy equipment used to extract and transport the oil-rich sand becomes coated with sticky bitumen and other deposits. 

   
• Cleaning Methods:

  • High-Pressure Steam: Steam trucks are used to clean heavy equipment, including haul trucks, shovels, and other machinery, by using high-pressure steam to loosen and remove the buildup. [/quote]

   

  [quote]My diesel comment, that wasn't intended to sound like it was directed at you, it was in speaking of those that buy a diesel and really have no clue what hidden issues they may have by owning one and using it the way they are in a put-zing around way. I expect a number of the 3.0 duramax are sold in that way of some who buy them that putter around vs those that drive longer distances where they can regen properly.[/quote]

   

  No worries I didn't take it that way. Even though I don't read a lot on the diesel side, I have seen enough online. My brother has had Dmaxes since MY2005. I've heard him & my nephew discuss them (he had a fuel pump failure on his 2016 (after a cross country trip) around '21 or '22 & the repair was problematic. Got it fixed & traded it in on a '22.

   

  It would be hard to say on which end of the scale of 'driving' mine would fall. Yes most of it is putzing around LOL, but usually once a week I make an hour & a half round trip to the city for shopping. That being said, throw in Canadian winters & wouldn't likely wouldn't help matters either for 4 months either.