To Diesel....or not to Diesel

[djp9747]

I am in the process of looking for a new truck, and so far I have gone back and forth over the configuration that I will get. If money was there, I would have a 2500HD Crew Cab 4x4 with Duramax diesel engine. However, the money is not there so I need to comprimise. To get in my price range it looks like I'll have to either go with the 2500 in a 4x4 with the 6.0 gas engine, or a 2500 in a 4x2 with the Diesel engine. And so the question is, what should I value more. Here's my scenario

 

The vehicle will be a daily driver first, off roader second. I don't generally pull anything of significant weight. I do however drive alot of miles per year (15-20K). My off roading will be largely resricted to camping trips where the ground is generally muddy (I won't be doing any rock-crawling ) and there is potential for getting stuck. Add to this that I plan on keeping this vehicle for 5-6 years at a minimum.

 

My rationale for looking at the diesel in the first place, is due to the longer warranty for the drive train, cheaper gas, and gas mileage that would be better than the 6.0 liter engine. Plus, the diesel is a much more durable motor.

 

But, if I take the diesel engine as an option, that drives me over my price point, and I have to forgo the 4x4 option.

 

At this point I want both options, but can't seem to make up my mind. What would give me a higher resell value at the end of 5 years? I'm looking for experiences from other guys who have made decisions like this.

 

Thanks in advance for you help?

 

David

[linda]

get a 2nd job and get the 4x4 diesel!

[djp9747]

Linda, don't think I haven't already thought of that!!!!

[XTOAK]

I've owned several diesels and one thing to keep in mind is that the engine is alot heavier than a gasser, and you will get stuck in heavy mud. Going into a soft pasture, I've dropped the front end into soft water logged pasture and buried it right there...took a tractor to pull it out.

 

Also, as far as a daily driver, how far are you going? Short trips on a diesel are murder and will reduce the longevity of the engine. They do get great fuel mileage but the shorts trips can be detrimental to the engine.

 

Do you live where it gets cold in the winter? If you do, and you like heat, or the wife likes heat, remember that the diesels will take longer to warm up in the winter. They not as quick at heating up as a gas engine and when the thermometer hits -10, it can be a few mile drive until you get heat out of it...idling won't get the engine up to temp enough to get warm air out of the heater.

 

Diesels are great and have their place....but more for towing and just flat out going. Start and stop driving in freeway traffic isn't what they built to do althought alot of people use them that way. I'd drive one but only live five miles from work and that short of a warm up and drive would ruin the engine as it won't get up to full operating temp so as to burn off the diesel that would accumulate in the oil.

[zshumo]

Almost bought a diesel myself, but, if you don't do alot of hauling/ driving distance it may not be worth it. At least that is why I didn't get one. The extra price of the duramax doesn't really make up for the fuel savings & as already stated it is heavier. Don't forget that diesels are more maitenance than a gasser (if your maintaining it right).

[Machine]

Hi -

 

Please support your claim that diesel engines suffer longevity issues from short distance driving, and the other point you made that they are better off towing rather than just plain unloaded driving. If this is true, why do diesel engines in passenger cars remain very popular around the world? Even the Jeep Liberty is going to offer a diesel option - somehow I don't see that little Liberty being built to haul things bigger than two Seadoo's

 

It's true that diesels perform to their maximum potential on longer drives (all engines do), but short trips do not harm the diesel any more than short trips harm the gasser...

 

The cost of a diesels upkeep isn't too much more than that of a gasser. With the exception of fuel filters and fuel additives, the diesel is a pretty easy machine to keep running.

[redvett]

You have to figure the extra cost of a 2500 + the diesel against the difference in fuel mileage. The 1500 4x4's get 18-20 hiway and the diesels 20-21. You have to do a lot of driving and hauling to pay for the diesel. I believe there is at least a $4-5000.00 difference in price. Figure how many miles you have to drive to get a payoff on the diesel. The 2500 isnt cheap you have to figure maintance costs are higher. Brakes for one. I had been driving a Silverado 4x4 Z71 Lt and for the 01 it cost me $163 a month to drive 50000 mi. not including gas oil filter & grease.

[QUIKAG]

Don't forget the quite a bit higher resale value of the diesel. I have a 5.3L extended cab and love it, but my brothers '03 Duramax is bada**. He has a LT 4x4 extended cab with a lift kit and a straight-pipe exhaust. It sounds evil and really moves out for a 6800lb. beast.

[ness5575]

if money is an issue and you arent using it for towing, why are you looking at 2500's? a 1500 with the 5.3 will get a lot better gas mileage than the 6.0. the new 1500 crew cabs arent cheap - but they cost quite a bit less than a 2500 with the duramax.

[XTOAK]

I can support my argument concerning reduced longevity of a diesel engine due to short drives by all my years experience working on diesels. Have YOU ever changed the oil on a diesel that was used for short hops and then shut down? I've seen hundreds of Cummins as well as Detroits and Cats that were for light to mid duty use, that were used around town for delivery vehicles as well as personal commuters.

 

Because they're not driven for long distances, they never got the opportunity to get to the proper operating temps and had oil dilution - dilution by diesel that had been pumped into the engine when starting and hadn't had the chance to burn up prior to being shut down. We're not talking a ton of diesel but there's enough there that over a sustained period of time I've seen as much as a quart build up between oil changes. The last time I checked, diesel mixed with 15W40 isn't the ideal mixture you want in a diesel engine thus I recommed to folks that if they're going to drive a diesel on short hops (routinely), that they shorten their oil change intervals so as to extend the life of the engine as much as possible.

 

I ran a quick search for backup and you can feel free to look at this site as well as many others I could supply that would more than support my argument... feel free to visit http://www.cartalk.com/content/columns/Arc...January/11.html

 

Now, with your comment that "short trips do not harm the diesel any more than short trips harm the gasser", I ask you for support of your claim and your qualifications to make such a claim....

[rhilton]

if money is an issue and you arent using it for towing, why are you looking at 2500's? a 1500 with the 5.3 will get a lot better gas mileage than the 6.0. the new 1500 crew cabs arent cheap - but they cost quite a bit less than a 2500 with the duramax.

I'm with him. If you really want 4 wheel drive, you ought to try the 5.3 1500. It'd be a few grand less. Plus if you really wanted to get more power out of your engine, there's a ton of mods for the 5.3, so I really think it'd be cheaper to stick with the gas engine. Plus if you're one of these people that's always driven a gas engine, I doubt you'd be used to the rev limiter being at about 3800 rpms instead of around 5600 rpms...

[Machine]

I can support my argument concerning reduced longevity of a diesel engine due to short drives by all my years experience working on diesels. Have YOU ever changed the oil on a diesel that was used for short hops and then shut down? I've seen hundreds of Cummins as well as Detroits and Cats that were for light to mid duty use, that were used around town for delivery vehicles as well as personal commuters.

 

Because they're not driven for long distances, they never got the opportunity to get to the proper operating temps and had oil dilution - dilution by diesel that had been pumped into the engine when starting and hadn't had the chance to burn up prior to being shut down. We're not talking a ton of diesel but there's enough there that over a sustained period of time I've seen as much as a quart build up between oil changes. The last time I checked, diesel mixed with 15W40 isn't the ideal mixture you want in a diesel engine thus I recommed to folks that if they're going to drive a diesel on short hops (routinely), that they shorten their oil change intervals so as to extend the life of the engine as much as possible.

 

I ran a quick search for backup and you can feel free to look at this site as well as many others I could supply that would more than support my argument... feel free to visit http://www.cartalk.com/content/columns/Arc...January/11.html

 

Now, with your comment that "short trips do not harm the diesel any more than short trips harm the gasser", I ask you for support of your claim and your qualifications to make such a claim....

Hi -

 

You’re right; any vehicle that doesn’t get up to normal operating temperature on a continuous basis will fail at a faster rate. Gas or diesel. I neglected to read your definition of what a short trip is. To me, a short trip is less than 15 miles a day, everyday – but I live in the sticks where you have to drive at least 7 miles one way just to see you’re your first traffic light. Nothing at all l like the link you supplied that has a diesel that’s driven only 2 miles a day in the heart of Nebraska. That would “murder” any diesel, fer sure. Regardless, the original poster doesn’t have to worry about premature failure if he’s clocking 15K-20K a year. Thanks.

[Machine]

djp9747 - If you're really not going to pull or haul anything, the 2500HD doesn't really offer the most comfortable ride for a daily driver. The 2500 really shines when there's a couple of toys hooked up to the hitch. The diesel is nice for the power and mileage but you may find the 1500 with the 5.3 and 4WD to be better. Let us know what you decide!

[16gaSxS]

You have to figure the extra cost of a 2500 + the diesel against the difference in fuel mileage. The 1500 4x4's get 18-20 hiway and the diesels 20-21. You have to do a lot of driving and hauling to pay for the diesel. I believe there is at least a $4-5000.00 difference in price.  Figure how many miles you have to drive to get a payoff on the diesel.

I did a NADA price comparision for a 1999 Extended cab SWB 2500 4x4 with 60,000 miles.

Average trade in for the Northern intermountain area is $15,800 and Avg Retail $18,675 for the gas engine. 6.5TD all the rest the same $16,800 tradein and $19,800 retail avg. Same truck just Diesel engine difference. So if you buy used the price difference is not very much. I'll match my 6.5 against any stock 6.0 gas for fuel economy and towing. I get 15-16.5 mpg comuting and towing 5,000 trailer almost everyday. At 75mph I get 19.5mpg empty all day. Everytime I ask a gaser driver what they get I here 15-16mpg at 75 empty. If I drive 65mph I get 21-22mpg. Ask a 8.1 owner and you'l hear 10-12mpg empty.

Hope this help from a real live 6.5TD owner.

[Greg]

In Michigan, there is a larger resale premium for 4wd v. 2wd than for diesel v. gas. About 80% of the new trucks ordered by dealers for their lots are 4wd.

 

When I was looking for a new DD last fall, the extended cab Duramax and Sierra Denali both made my short list. I was leaning toward the Denali, but my wife convinced me to get a CTS instead. I've been happy with the CTS, but I need a truck again.