Grumpy Bear

What is considered an acceptable Nitration value? Yours look allot like mine. I saw the W30 like 212F value.

Gauge Help! Anyone have any experience with SPEEDHUT? They at least give some accuracy information. I've never used an aftermarket stepper motor gauge. Pricy but interesting and apparently quite accurate. They are also a good bit less expensive and yet handsomely built. I also am looking for a pillar mount that is already the gray color of the interior or close enough to pass.

What are your thoughts on the UOA's? The compare looks very favorable to me.

Steward Warner. Glow Shift. Autometer. SPEEDHUT. This is like vetting oils. Information please. Anyone else notice no one selling something is advertising what they sell while spending millions advertising and saying nothing? The sell fear. They sell a lifestyle. Sell the appearance of wealth. The illusion of being "IN". They sell the illusion of being an illusion. No facts. No figures. No data just noise packaged in color, motion and more noise. Then there is the cookie cutter approach to sales. I know this isn't exactly what you are looking for but it is exactly what we are willing to stock until consumer reviews say other. Then the 30% price difference without stating exactly what is driving that difference. Lastly the 3 to 4 week delivery of what we do have...maybe....?? My world spins on data and data is only good if accurate. This may take longer than I thought and cost more than I hoped.

My 2015 always showed 210 F. I removed the 207 thermostat and installed a 180 F. Still reads 210 F.

90,000 Mile Service. At 74,000 we put new rotors and pads in all four holes. Front rotors are warped. Of course the supplier is out at the moment so for another day in the near future. Their not sure they will back the buy. I'm sure that if they don't there won't be a second buy. 15K rotors and $700 cost for 4 corners? NOT. Oil change. Not just volume but type. Mobil 1 5W30 Extended Performance. AMSOIL was my intention but a scheduling dictated other. K & N filter too. Grrr. What a mess buying has become. "I'll sell ya we have, not what you want". Rumor has it this one does have some PAO content and the idea is slowing the consumption via higher NOACK. It's gets one try and if it doesn't get it done. I'm done with it. Used about 3/4 quart in 5K this time. Okay we retired the Michelin Latitude Tour's and mounted a fresh set of Continental Cross Contact LX 20's. Michelins were down to 5/32" and even as could be. Still quite and working well in the wet and snow. These had been a great tire but they priced themselves out of the game. Bought the Conti's for $10 a tire less money WITH shipping saving roughly $100. We have Continental's on her Buick and she loves them. Happy wife.... Then I took the Terrain for a 150 scuff in and feel assessment. I was fresh off a similar run just a day before on the Michelin's so pretty easy comparison to make. I know, worn vs fresh but hold that thought till you hear the results. The dB A scale meter says they are equal both sets sounding off at roughly 70 dB A. (cabin noise) What the meter can't tell you is the frequency which is huge as I learned. The Continental has a much lower frequency that the Michelin. Actually makes sense as the tread depth difference is like the difference in a tuning forks leg length or could be the pattern. I tolerate the lower frequency much better. Neither tire "booms" like a basketball. Good. The biggest difference is that over various surface textures. While there is a fair amount of difference between say, grooved cement and blacktop for the Michelin the Continental tire hardly changes pitch. One exception. On grooved cement grooves with your direction are nearly silent but across you path they emit a quite but high frequency 'sing'. Few would notice the difference. Quite is a big deal for me. Ride. The Continental has a firmer but less harsh quality about it. It feels more connected to the drivers input as well. You can actually tell the difference between the shocks response and the tires response to an upset. That might bother some but I liked it. It's quite, responsive and comfortable. What we have come to expect from the brand. Side note. We have run Eldorado, Firestone, General, Michelin, Continental and Bridgestone tires all to or past 90K miles with room to spare in tread. Some 40K warranty some 70K. All worked quite well. I'm thinking life has more to do with service and driver than brand and compound (within reason). The two in bold type are the quietest of the group.

April Numbers 2017 - 27.35 mpg 2018 - 27.70 mpg 2019 - 28.19 mpg Lifetime Average 27.14 mpg Continuing to find incremental increases. Well past the EPA 21 mpg combine number.

Like the mascot.

Glow Shift parts came. One tap for the bypass system. One for temperature and one for pressure. I need to fab a bracket for the bypass filter mount. Source some gauges and a panel mount. Getting there.

I've had the AMSOIL bypass filter, remote mount and valve cover barb for awhile. Then paused to ponder the supply source. As I would like to add an actual pressure and temperature gauge I've opted for a filter spacer plate with taps. Glow Shift had one I ordered minutes ago that looks promising. I now need to fab a mount. I think I'd like to locate it in the second battery tray area. I'll add a sample tap in that location as well; pre-filter, for UOA's. Over the last 3236 miles she's burned 115.48 gallons = 28.02 mpg. The last 1044 miles, since the K & P filter install she used 35.731 gallons = 29.22 mpg. Takes about 1 hp./1 psi to drive an oil pump. Normal pump lay outs that's a 'meh'. But the Gen V motors regulate oil pressure after the filter, not before as in the past. In this set up 1 psi reduction in filter DP is a direct one horsepower reduction in friction. Observation however says it is something less with the two stage set up. My horsepower meter says about a 3 hp. reduction at 60 mph. Hot idle power is much easier to see. Old 8/9 hp, new 6 hp. There is only a 3 psi difference between idle and 55 mph oil pressure so I think I'm in the ballpark. Today I drove down to Peoria to Hoerr Racing to pick up fluids and the 360 mile round trip calculated 30.4 MPG driving 60 mph all Interstate. That's a bit quicker than my usual pace but I was experimenting. Day started 58 F and ended 75 F. Light N wind. Under 5 mph. Pretty day. This pace yields a slightly higher oil temperature and a few degrees cooler transmission temperature. 206 F oil, 148 F Transmission. 0W30 is what I chose this time. At least until I can get the oil temperatures below 200 F on the hotter days and at 60-65 mph. I'm right up against my self imposed limits so I'll create a bit of cushion. This part of the project is going painfully slow. But with good results.

An example of rational thought.

Paint the thing! Warranty in tact. LOL.

Petroleum Oil Thermal Oxidation Chart. At 212 F the rate of decay is already 6X faster than at 165 F; the initiation temperature. By 250 F it's over 30X faster. It's why track day cars change oil at the end of each outing. It's why I believe 235 F, a really easy number to hit with a stock motor on a hot day with a 207F water thermostat and a fluid to fluid oil exchanger is the very definition of 'stupid'. OLM's that permit 7.5K changes modifies this thought to 'Really Stupid" That's my story and I'm stick' n to it. Believe other as you wish. This isn't a fight. It's an opinion. Sugar Bears Terrain has started to use some oil. About a quart in 5K and it has almost 90K on the clock. QSUD and 5K OCI's. By 4K the oil is getting pretty dark. A good deal darker than Peppers oil at that same interval. Besides the fact we use different oils she is that person who gives not a single thought to longevity. Her Toyota did this same thing at about the same mileage on Pennzoil Platinum. I've told this story before I believe but it bears repeating. She's headed to Memphis from Fort Wayne on a day with a SW wind steady over 45 mph gusting to 55/60 and I get a call from her all worried. She says, and I not knowing the conditions of the drive from my chair at home, "Somethings wrong Grumpy. I've got my foot flat on the floor and it can't hold 80 mph!!!" 2.4 liter motor pushing a bread box into a cyclone wind...hum....what could that be? She's not being cute, this is just who she is. I've explained that it's really hard on such a small motor's oil to push it like that and it bounces off unnoticed. She's not untypical. By my observations of the road she's actually pretty tame. Dad made mention on our last visit that he believes the fastest vehicles on the road today are not Corvettes and Camaros but Suburban's and Silverado's. I think he's dead on the money. While the extra hydrogen processing of QSUD that closes the ends of each molecule certainly help move this graph to the right a few degrees it is evidently not up to the loads she can place on it. And as it is still a mineral oil it will as it evaporates leave behind varnish and gums. Something POE's and PAO's will not do. Sadly once it starts there is little that can be done to reverse it. Anyway, story time over with....I'm a belt and suspenders sort of guy. Might even add a bit of rope and duct tape taking me back to the Turning Point post. Use better oil than you need. Keep it cooler than you have to. Filter it well and stress it little then change it. OCI is the only area I'm still on the fence about. I think that is going to be a function of how much truth I can be assured of and so far that isn't much. So until I'm comfortable I will continue to change it more often than the median user.

"My uncle Wilber once.....". It's how the rebuttal starts after you supply hard evidence to the contrary. Leaves one with a feeling the wheels just fell off the rationality buss you are on and there isn't a thing you can do about it. I was watching this YouTube video where a fellow is doing a home brewed NOACK test. I wondered if anyone but myself happened to notice what he was not talking about that was several times more important than the actual results his test produced. And what was that? The oil darkened. In a covered container. That isn't soot or suspended dirt. That is thermal oxidation. Technically, it's thermal cracking. A process used in refining to break apart a hydrocarbon to make smaller hydrocarbons. Natural Gas is thermal cracked to make ethylene and ethylene and is synthesized into, a few steps later, PAO's or Polyethylene plastics or Polyethylene Glycol or...…. Problem is the cracking going on in the crankcase isn't do so in an orderly manor to make anything good. The most damaging thing unchecked thermal degradation does in a motor is destroy polarity. Surface tension. It's ability to 'wet' a metal. To hold an additive. To hold solids. This is the basis of lubrication is it not? This process doesn't happen above some magic temperature the oil is designed to 'handle' although it does have an initiation temperature. It's rate of progress doubles incrementally with increases in temperature. From Machinery Lubrication concerning mineral oils: "the rate of oxidation doubles for every 10°C (18°F) rise in temperature above 75°C (165°F)" "Yes but", Your going to say about your favorite synthetic, and argue 'modern oils can handle more heat' and they in fact can. What they are not; is impervious to the process of thermal breakdown. The initiation temperature is indeed raised but NOT above your normal operating temperature. The proof is right there in the color on your dipstick. Your UOA can look fine. Vis is in range and TBN is okay. None of that is an indicator of polarity. IFT (interfacial tension) is that indicator. I've never seen this test done by anyone who does analysis for the public. We use to run it for the 180,000 hp. turbines in an Ethylene plant. https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/376/surface-tension-test There are points in a motor where temperatures greatly exceed the point of thermal breakdown for any popular lubricant. Compressive heating of oil in the roller to cam lobe interface an example. It's hot, it's quick and over time, miles, load gets the job done no matter how well you choose, cool, filter or analyze your favorite fluids. That doesn't mean ignore them because there is noting you can do to stop it. It means be about it like you mean it. Then change your oil.

Thanks for the kindnesses boys. I appreciate that. Sort of a hazard of my age me thinks.

Yes sir. Dad gets 300K falling off a log. 2500 OCI and mineral oil. Last ten years or so he's traded horses. Syntech and pushing 15K without UOA and so far....getting away with it. Of course he's doing this experiment on my brother-in-laws Olds. An adult, well written and refreshing perspective. Thanks for sharing it. Glad you enjoyed it. I've been a bit scattered recently. Four funerals in ten days. I'm about tapped out so slow on the trigger.

Rational thought. That's what I argue for. I'm not in the mood for mindless bickering. So.....let go back to the OP's question and it wasn't about longevity. It was about requirement. No...the DFM does not require it. It functions over a wide range of viscosities. The oils viscosity changes with temperature. Temperature changes with load and speed and weather and dilution and and and.....Oil's primary function in the motor is not hydraulics....it's hydrodynamics. Viscosity is chosen for hydrodynamics. It is chosen for an expected MINIMUM viscosity that may be seen during the life of the oil. THIER expected life. Evidently that number is really small as they find 240 F 'normal' while running a 0W20. It requires a MINIMUM USED OIL viscosity. Rational thought? Change you oil. Two different issues. All oils shear and shear does cause a viscosity change and it is always lower. Oxidation causes a viscosity change as well and that is always higher. Dilution does not cause a shear related viscosity reduction. It is a dilution related viscosity reduction. Rational thought? Change your oil. Those are MY thoughts. If you don't agree...Great! But you didn't ask for them....did you OnTheReel? Easy TXGREEK, my dance card if full. Ah...Rational thought!! Not so hard, right? Where were you earlier Hawk?

Turning Point Care package came from AMSOIL today. Thank you Nick! I've been presenting this piece meal fashion. It's my process. Sorry about that. There are five parts to this project. 1.) Oil Quality 2.) Oil Cooling 3.) Oil Cleanliness 4.) Oil Change Intervals 5.) Oil Stress There is but one goal. Knowledge. Longevity is the vehicle. Cost is NOT a consideration...within reason. But what is reasonable? Most of my life I've had little issues getting 200K plus from anything with four wheels on nothing more than 5 to 7.5K OCI, good oil and name brand filters. It's my nature not to stress oil very much. My driving style gets moisture out and holds shear and heat in check. I would have been happy with that for the rest of my life if it hadn't been for the last few years of the insane price increases of vehicles coupled with a severe dumbing down of basic quality and mandated over complication and compliance. Nutshell? Greed is getting too greedy. I can by allot of oil and filtration for $50K and as I have been able to skip buying every other vehicle I thought why not every third or maybe even fourth. I needed a new mind set. Less follow the leader. I think I have one and I'll lay it out.

Wow! Where would one start? Lets start with 'know better than GM'. Well skip over the inability to tell the difference between a 'keyboard engineer' and an actual Engineer. Lets go strait to LOGIC 101. You want to side (trust explicitly) with GM in choosing the lubricant because 'they know better'. Okay. Is this the same set of engineers that designed the AFM system you bypassed because it's a piece of junk? The same engineers that designed the cam and lifters that fail. Oil pumps that fail. Vacuum pumps that fail. EPS that fails. Transmissions that are 'stumbling drunks'. Driveshafts that explode. Axels the wobble. The same engineers that test your failed equipment and deny your warranty claims. The guys the designed your PCV system so ineffective you put catch cans on. Those engineers? Let's move on to 'complex oiling systems'. We could argue that but it might be more productive to ask that even if that were true, and I'm not in agreement that it is, how did that change the lubrication function and interaction between the oil and the things it lubricates. Yea, the fundamental requirements are the same for babbitt bearings in your grandfathers Model T as the are in a GP bike. Provide a film thick enough and strong enough. Cool. Clean. Fight friction. Does it matter how 'good' the oil is if you insist on mistreating it, ignoring it and expecting to much from it? I haven't seen a light bulb come on yet for anyone that tells me they understand the significance of the OPERATIONAL temperature/viscosity relationship beyond what it says on the a data sheet. You want to argue that the VVT/DOD wont work properly or the engine will be damaged due to 'wrong' viscosity if any other oil but 0W20 is used but fail to grasp that a guy like me that drives the double nickel and whose bulk oil temperature is 195 F vs a guy that is towing 10,000 lbs. in the desert at 70 mph with a bulk temperature is 250 F has already EFFECTIVELY moved the viscosity FOUR SAE steps. 20W to 50W is the spread between these two temperatures to obtain the same 'running' viscosity. Yet both systems work just dandy. You know this well enough to be dismissive of 'keyboard' engineers. Let me take a WAG. I'm being mean.

I got hooked on the $32 a gallon gas for awhile. Then I went to the station and store, bought my gas, oil and some seafoam and made my own for like $4 a gallon. Drain them over the winter.

Omeprazole, Zantac. People take these drugs to cure acid reflux from eating a diet or living a lifestyle that aggravates acid production. They could just give up those foods that hurt them and destress, but they don't and they won't. We are kind of like that about allot of things....like lubrication. Except with lubrication we also tend to deny a fact if it doesn't suit or preference. Heat is a great example. True, Synthetics will tolerate more sensible heat than mineral oils. Sometimes by a lot. Thing is they respond in the same way to that heat. Resistance to flow decreases. A viscosity drop. I hand generated this table from data obtained from Donaldson for straight weight oils. It wouldn't copy from the PDF in was in. Look at the 40 C viscosity for 20W. 68 cSt. In a 0W20 that number is roughly 48 cSt. Below that point the differenced are greatly different. That's info to stop backlash for the next statement. Above 70 C (158 F), just above the EP additive heat activation point there isn't a nickels worth of difference in viscosities between straight weights and multi weights. Synlube I believe generated this graph from 0W30. So take a second and look those over. Now think bearing temperatures run 75 F hotter than the sump temperature. Ring land temperature of the oil runs in a gas motor in the 300F range under average load . Funny how that is the same temperature as the test temperature for the HSTS test, right? Add this thought. Milk at room temperature has a viscosity of 3 centipoise and as milk has a density a hair over 1 the cSt viscosity is just under 3 cSt. About the same as Red Line 0W20 at 302 F. Beat like a pup and you can push it to near 400 F. Oil in that space of about 3 to 10 um between the ring and wall has the consistency of milk. Good to know that film strength isn't tied DIRECTLY to viscosity, right? At these temperatures even moderate reductions in sensible heat have a large impact percentage wise on viscosity. That's a long way around to say that even if the chemistry of the lubricant can tolerate the heat from the point of thermal oxidation it's viscosity is still subject to the laws of nature. Viscosity is huge in the formation of hydrodynamic film thickness every rotating part in the motor depends on to prevent contact. But we have Zantac, right? ZZDP? 1.) I use the best oil I can afford to lay my hands on. 2.) I will be mindful of the heat viscosity relationship. 3.) I keep it as cool as possible but warm enough to drive out moisture and activate heat sensitive additives. 4.) I will filter it as well as products, services and truthful information allows 5.) I will treat it like I don't have access to any of the above. If I were only going to be allowed one truck for a life time, this is how I see it's services. It likely is.

GM submitted a paper to the SAE which was published and showed a direct correlation between particle contamination and engine wear. Read here: https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/30697/choose-oil-filter It's what the study says. But not what you hear from whom ever is selling whatever. Lubeguard for example states in their FAQ area the 'number' to hit is sub 3 um. They offer 3 um at a Beta of 75 or absolute according to SAE standards. Frantz claims 5 um capable without a Beta reference. Ditto RRR. K & P holds 35 um, "and 'yes will catch 5 um as well' sort of like you should be ashamed to ask. Well I'm not and I do ask. I bough the K & P for many purposes. One of which was making space for a sandwich plate. Another was lower backpressure, quicker pressure rise. I like the idea that 35 um is a true absolute and not a relative value with a lot of if's, maybe's and but's attached. I can bypass finer so am unconcerned with it's low end performance. Who has my attention is AMSOIL. 2 um at a Beta of 75. They are willing to state a number and a reference point and even if that number were 5 um I would know the facts and not just some relative marketing speak. Truth not to my exact liking is preferred to lies and pie in the sky. And as it happens I find 2 um at this reference agreeable. I have our resident AMSOIL guy on it.

87,930 Miles Installed K&P Engineering filter. Now talking with FRANZ for a bypass system. Continuing to add to my library I've added NEW oil analysis and some more physicals. Old sheets will be deleted from this thread. Did you know that water at basically room temperature has a viscosity of 1 cSt? Look at light oil HSTS values and shiver. Note oil viscosity at -31 F. More viscous by a factor of 700 than at 100 C (212F) This is SAE zero weight spec! Any more questions as to why 0W* gets better mileage than 5W* ? It isn't what comes after the W that matters.

There was metal in it when it was first machined too, right? They cleaned it out. The filter will catch the fine stuff same as it did when you bought it new. Inhale, exhale. I feel for you. My guts go inside out when something like this happens. Honda put a reman short block in my Honda at 63,000 miles for a casting flaw that dumped coolant into the pan. I wanted an entire motor. Has 225,000 trouble free miles on it.....runs like a sewing machine. Take heart...

Yes, this has nothing to do with the Terrain but it's funny. It's Sugar Bear at her ever loving best and I'm not opening 'Yes Dear'. She has a 2014 Verano. Mint. Trailer Queen. Garage kept and under fifteen thousand miles and most of those by the previous owner. She's had it three years and it's been on two trips and a couple of weekenders. Mostly it sits all winter and goes in and out of the garage for cleanings a few times during the summer and a hour drive once a month to keep it limber. Stage set? Good. So, it's five years old and time for the fiver year services which I always add to. Pull calipers and grease slides, full four wheel power bleed. Full trans service. Engine lube service. Battery load test. Coolant dump and flush, tires, wipers, brake line inspect, evap. system draw down test. Code check...get the idea? This car still smells like new inside...Yum! Bill comes to $400 after about $200 in free stuff they did just because it might need or this wasn't perfect....I hand the bill to the Bear and after her eyes re-dilate she says totally dead pan handing it back in walk away fashion: "Good thing there wasn't anything wrong with it"! Wait till she gets it back from the detailer!