Cordless Tools

[aflesch]

I have a Craftsmas Professional Drill and Circular Saw (20V Li-ION) and they are awesome. They are not the C3 line. For about 5 years they made a professional line to compete with Dewalt, Milwaukee, etc. but I think the C3 line had build them such a bad reputation for power tools that nobody bought them. They no longer carry them (or didn't last time I looked)

[LaserBlueZ71]

I work for a tool repair service, I am a service technician. I rebuild/repair electric motors, power tools, air tools, pumps, air compressors, you name it.

 

Here is my advice based on my experience as a repair technician.

 

Dewalt: more or less, Dewalt has gone down hill in a hurry. There new 20 volt line is a major disappointment. Their new hammer drill is very undersized for trying to compete with other brands in the 18 volt category. All of the plastic is cheap and thin, and the motor cooling is not sufficient to say the least. Our store hardly sells any Dewalt, not because we don't carry it, but because it simply can't hold a candle to other brands, such as Milwaukee and Makita. Dewalt has one nice tool, which is a new style of angle grinder they just came out with. It has a new cooling system that does not suck in big chunks of dust or debris while you are grinding, providing greater motor life. This just came out, and ALL other brands will offer something similar pretty quickly.

 

Makita: Great stuff, with some downsides. Makita tools are usually quite easy to repair. The most difficult tools they make to repair are their angle grinders. Poorly thought out design is mostly to blame. The brush card holders in the drills are a very common problem, with even a little bit of heat, they melt, and the tool needs to be repaired for that. Makita has some of the worst battery reliability numbers I have ever seen. We have to order Makita 18 volt Li-Ion batteries by the SKID LOAD to keep up with warranty claims. We go through over 200 batteries per month just in warranty claims. Makita must use some low quality cells, because we see a TON of them come back.

 

Ridgid: What can be said, it's cheap junk, plain and simple. These tools are not worth fixing when they break. The shop I work for used to be a warranty dealer for Ridgid. We no longer warranty them because of the overwhelming amount of claims we had coming through our doors. When we did the math, we were actually losing money by being a warranty dealer for Ridgid, so we dropped them. I actually get mad at people who bring in their cheap Ridgid junk, and they expect it to hold up to abusive work. It's a $100 drill, it will not perform or last as long as a $300 drill will, plain and simple. You get what you pay for, power tools is no place to be cheap.

 

Hitachi: More junk. VERY difficult to repair. Their tools are designed so that when you service them, every piece of casing or plastic, overlaps the next piece. So even if you need to do something simple like a switch on a saw, you have to take the entire thing apart 80% of the time. Build quality is very low in every category. I can't think of one good thing to say about them. Their tools suck, period.

 

Bosch: For the most part, good tools. Parts can be difficult to source in a timely manner, and are often very expensive. Some of their designs are horribly thought out, especially in their hammer drills. They do make the best job-site radio out there, hands down. However, it costs about $250. Their 18 volt Li-Ion battery is good quality and they hold up well. Overall, a good tool to buy.

 

Milwaukee: The best out there, period. Milwaukee still produces their battery packs individually and by hand. They use very high quality cells, and their warranty is second to none. We get parts fast, they are fairly priced, and warranty is approved 99% of the time. Milwaukee is also the only vendor that will honor warranty without a receipt, they use the serial number on the tool itself. The new Milwaukee Brushless FUEL technology blows every other tool out of the water. The power their brushless 18V hammer drill puts out is amazing, and has no equal. Build quality is superb. Milwaukee tools are also easy to repair. Even their manuals and diagrams are hands down better than any other brand, they even include diagrams for wire routing in tools. Milwaukee actually listens to what people want, and they develop their tools accordingly. Every month we get a visit from a Milwaukee rep who informs us of any news or new procedures, and takes very good care of us. No other brand does that. They go the extra mile for their customers, and their products show that. I own nothing but Milwaukee power tools, and as long as they keep their reputation this way, it is all I will ever own.

 

Milwaukee also just came out with their 4 Amp Hour 18 volt Li-Ion packs. These are the highest capacity packs in the industry, and by far the most powerful and advanced battery being made for cordless tools today. Every other brand is still making 3 AH packs, while Milwaukee is moving forward and progressing.

 

Take my words for what you will, but just remember, I do repair these tools all day long, 5 days a week.

[brainpause]

LaserBlueZ71,

 

I heard 2 or 3 years ago that DeWalt and Black & Decker are the same thing. Any truth to that?

 

I've actually had good luck with a drill (14.4 I think). Good torque and holds charge for weeks. I keep it in my camper for lowering the stabilizers.

[lhjanzen]

LaserBlueZ71,

 

I heard 2 or 3 years ago that DeWalt and Black & Decker are the same thing. Any truth to that?

 

 

Not the same thing, but a subsidiary of Black & Decker (Stanley)

--> http://www.bizjourna...11/daily19.html via --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dewalt

 

Huh... and Milwaukee and Ryobi are both owned by parent company "Techronic Industries"

[LaserBlueZ71]

The parent company for Dewalt owns quite a few companies.

 

Delta, Porter Cable, Black & Decker, and Dewalt, are all owned by the same parent company.

 

Yes, TTI owns ryobi, as well as ridgid. The common misconception is people believe Milwaukee tools are cheap junk, because it is owned by the same parent company. Milwaukee is their elite line, the best of the best. They know that, and can't afford to lose that reputation. They have the Ryobi and Ridgid lines, because well...to be honest, cheap, uninformed people make them too much money. So many people buy it because it's cheap. It's not meant to be a good tool, it's meant to make profit, and that's what they do. The cheapskate who buys that kind of stuff thinks a hammer drill is a hammer drill, when in reality, they don't even compare. It's similar to John Deere in that they sell cheap, disposable riding mowers at Home Depot for about $2,000. Those things are junk. Step into a John Deere dealership and look at an X700 series riding mower that costs $12,000, and you will see the difference in quality. These brands have cheap throw away versions of their product to appeal to the mass of cheap people and home owners, it's profit all the way to the bank.

 

If you run a factory in China, the Chinese government actually has control over it. UNLESS, you pay a handsome fee. If you pay this fee, as Milwaukee did, it puts you back in charge of the factory, 100%. Milwaukee has a very, very strict quality control procedure, and their ratio of tools checked vs not checked is higher than any other tool provider. Milwaukee went to great lengths to ensure they had full control of their operations in every stage. Like I said, the Milwaukee name is known, it has a history, to screw that up would spell an end for them.

[brainpause]

Well, none of that is my question. I asked if they were the same thing. As in different colors, but same/similar innards.

[LaserBlueZ71]

Well, none of that is my question. I asked if they were the same thing. As in different colors, but same/similar innards.

 

 

Sorry, I didn't realize you were asking about similarity between internal parts.

 

Are Dewalt and Black & Decker the same inside? No. Black & Decker literally looks like a childrens toy in comparison to Dewalt. The B&D quality level, isn't even 2 out of 10. Dewalt has much better internals than B&D.

[brainpause]

 

 

Sorry, I didn't realize you were asking about similarity between internal parts.

 

Are Dewalt and Black & Decker the same inside? No. Black & Decker literally looks like a childrens toy in comparison to Dewalt. The B&D quality level, isn't even 2 out of 10. Dewalt has much better internals than B&D.

 

 

Thanks. Didn't mean to sound like a smart aleck, if I did.

 

Here is my experience with other brands. I have several Ryobi tools, because i bought them when I couldn't afford a slopjar. Fortunately, they have served me well, and i use them probably a little heavier than your average homeowner.

 

I also have a Ridgid air nailer. I have not used mine heavily, but in Honduras myself and 3 others used one to hang enough wood siding on the inside and outside of a house that was large enough to sleep 10 children. That's a lot of siding. It never missed a beat in dusty conditions. That's why I bought mine.

 

That all said, my next power tool will hopefully be Milwaukee. I'm well aware that I've been somewhat lucky with my cheap tools.

 

Larry

[lhjanzen]

Speaking of nailers, We have Paslode framing and finishing nailers (gas powered) and those are just the cats ass.

[jdubya]

I used to work for Dewalt in sales about 6 -7 years ago, and here is my two sense (if it means anything).

 

Black and Decker was the parent company for Dewalt, Delta, Porter Cable. The company (about 3 years ago I believe) was aquired by Stanley Tools. Black and Decker is the homeowner line, while the rest of them are professional lines. In fact all warranties are void on Black and Decker products if there are indications that it was used in a professional environment.

 

Craftsman, (along with all of the propriatary brands at Sears) are sourced from other manufacturers and the Craftsman Logo is added. You will notice that most of their tools resemble other brands, with the colors changed. For instance if you look at some of the Craftsman recip saws, you will notice that the air vents on the sides of the motor have a D shaped air vent. That D shaped air vent is actually a trademarked item from Dewalt. When I worked for Dewalt, they made Recips, sanders and Circ saws for Craftsman. Their Drills were made by TTI (Ryobi, Ridgid), Miter Saws were made by Delta, etc.

 

In my opinion there is not one company that is the best in every tool category, everyone has a specialty that the others look up to. I can tell you from a company standpoint who Dewalt looked up to in these particular categories of tools:

 

Cordless - This is a category that Dewalt felt they owned. I do not agree, in fact I think these tools have been so bastardised by all of the companies over the years that they are relatively similar. I am not a particular fan of the TTI (Ryobi, Ridgid, Craftsman) and Hitatchi brands though. These are house brands for the big chains and are designed to be built to attain higher margins for those companies, i.e. cheap cost of production. Atthe time that I was working there, only two companies existed to make the internals for the NmH batteries. Regardless of each companies marketing claims, you get one of the two, period. This was pre Lithiom ion though, so I do not know the market place on those products.

Circ Saws - Skil professional (owned by Bosch)

Recip Saws - Milwakee

Grinders - Metabo (hands down these are still the most durable griders I have used)

Table Saws - Delta (Purchased by Black and Decker in 07ish)

Miter Saws - This is another category that Dewalt felt they owned, however their benchmark alot of times was Delta.

Hammer Drills - Hilti, hands down there is no comparison. Bosch is a close second.

Nailers - Stanley Bostich for pneumatic, and paslode for cordless.

Air Compressors - Emglo (purchased by Black and Decker in 2000) Was a nice little american made compressor company based in Johnstown, PA until B&D got their hands on it and sent production to Mexico. Quality in my opinion went with it.

 

Alot of the cordless tool choices come down to preference of the user. If you have a butt load of Dewalt batteries, chances are you will stick with thier cordless line (at least that is what they were banking on). Most of the cordless that I see on the job in my profession now are Dewalt, and Milwakee. In my opinion they both get the job done, in terms of durability though don't think either would servive being dropped from a scaffold 20+ feet in the air.

 

I will say this about Dewalt, at the time I worked there, no other company put the amount of money and effort into end user research that they did. They had full time employees (Field Marketing Representatives) that would drive around in major markets and visit job sites to demo new tools, and get feedback on existing tools for the product development team. It was a rather fun job, though I am not sure if that position made it through the aquisitions and down turn in our economy.

[jdubya]

Guys I apologize, In my editing I noticed that I went on a bit of a rant and a little off topic but after writing all that I didn't want to delete it all...

 

My bad.

[RyanbabZ71]

No rant there. Seems like good info.

[kstruckcountry]

Don't worry about it, it's good to get inside info

[lhjanzen]

Great Info! loving this passion for Cordless Tools

[kilbornf]

I am waiting for Milwaukee to release there 450 ft lb half inch impact in the fuel.They only have the 210 ft lb in the fuel so far.Milwaukee rep said release date got pushed back so maybe by spring.