Spark Plug Change & Warranty?

[Wink]

I have the dreaded 6.0 liter ping problem.  I've tried all the cleaner and high rev solutions and the dealer has been no help other than suggesting the overnight soak method that even he said that it probably won't work.  I've run 87 octane gas for multiple tank loads and disconnected the battery for 8 hours to reset the computer.  The ping is still there.  I know the dealer can't change the plug heat range to something cooler like the NGK TR6 plug because of GM policy.  Today at the auto parts store, the counter guy told me that if I used a plug other than the stock plug number, I would void the warranty.  Is this true?

 

Thanks...Wink

[chevy4x4trucks]

I would suggest a call to your dealer to verify, but I don't think that it would.

[Wink]

This is kind of funny...  I just called two different Chevy dealers.  One said it wouldn't void the warranty the other one said it would!  I guess I have to call a third dealer and go with the majority!

[chevy4x4trucks]

The only way that it would void the warranty is if there were some sort of problem w/ the engine and they can prove that it was directly caused by the change of the spark plugs.  Chances are that it won't cause any type of problems on a brand new engine.  Before you invest the time and money on this are you sure that it will fix the problem???

[Wink]

   Twenty years ago when I raced small block chevys, there was only two solutions to detonation, cooler plug or retard the mechanical total spark advance.  I can't rationalize the cost of a computer re-programer so the other option is to change the plug heat range.  I also plan to go to a all copper plug.  The platinum plugs that are in there now have an inherent problem.  Platinum displaces heat slower than copper, therefore the plug is still hot as the piston is on it's compression stroke.  It fires the 87 octane gas vapor before the piston is beyond TDC which is the ping.  By changing to a cooler heat range plug the electrode temperature should be cooler during the compression stroke and not cause detonation.  In my way of thinking, anything that would cool the combustion chamber between firings will reduce the detonation.  Changing to a cooler thermostat could also help but once the thermostat is open, it's open.  I feel it would have minimal effect on the combustion chamber temperature.

[chevy4x4trucks]

Keep me posted on whether or not that works because us guys w/ the 4.8 also have an engine pinging noise after about 6000 miles that the dealer can't hear

[Kania2k1]

Thanks for the lesson Wink!!!!  I always wondered about what caused the pinging noises, and how the engine makes power.  Always kinda baffled me for some reason!?!

[LarryE]

get the NGK's  they work great in the vortech motors..

 

defiantly worth the money

[hdmax]

Here is the facts. (Thanks Jeff, hope you don`t mind me using your post.)

 

 

Consumers Bill of Rights

 

Your Rights to Personalize Your Vehicle

ARTICLE ONE: You have the Right to buy high-quality, reliable aftermarket performance and specialty parts, accessories and styling options.

 

ARTICLE TWO: You have the Right to use high-quality aftermarket parts and know that your new car warranty claims will be honored. In fact, your vehicle dealer may not reject a warranty claim simply because an aftermarket product is present. A warranty denial under such circumstances may be proper only if an aftermarket part caused the failure being claimed.

 

ARTICLE THREE: You have the Right to install and use emissions-legal aftermarket performance parts without incurring hassles and onerous procedures during state vehicle emissions inspections.

 

ARTICLE FOUR: You have the Right to actively oppose any proposed (or existing) laws or regulations that will reduce your freedom to use aftermarket automotive parts and service or will curtail your ability to take part in the automotive hobbies of your choice.

 

ARTICLE FIVE: You have the Right to patronize independent retail stores and shops for vehicle parts and service. The U.S. aftermarket offers the world's finest selection of performance and specialty parts, accessories and styling options. These aftermarket products satisfy the most discriminating customers seeking personalized vehicles for today's lifestyle.

 

 

--------------------------------------------

And now for even more on the subject...

 

Warranty Denied?

 

The enclosed materials are intended to help you in the event you have a vehicle warranty claim denied in circumstances where an aftermarket producthas been used. The information describes the law on vehicle warranties and will give you a sense of what is and is not an improper warranty denial.After reviewing this information, you will be aware of the steps to take to fight unlawful warranty denials.

In many cases it will not be necessary to take all the steps outlined here because these disputes are often resolved at an early stage.

 

What Does the Warranty Actually Say?

 

Start by re-reading the warranty documents. Become familiar with what the documents actually say, not what you think they should say. If the language is confusing, get help in understanding what it really means. Look for specific items or circumstances that may or may not be covered. Determine if there is a process specified for resolving disputes.

 

The Law

 

Federal law sets forth requirements for warranties and contains a number of provisions to prevent vehicle manufacturers, dealers and others fromunjustly denying warranty coverage. With regard to aftermarket parts, the gist of the law is that warranty coverage cannot be denied simply becausesuch parts are present on the vehicle, or have been used (See Attachment A for details). The warranty coverage can be denied only if the aftermarketpart caused the malfunction or damage for which warranty coverage is sought. Disputes in this area usually boil down to arguments over facts andtechnical opinions, rather than arguments over interpretations of the law.

 

Check Vehicle History

 

Sometimes a malfunction in a new vehicle may be identified as a "pattern failure" -- a failure that is recognized as common to your make and model ofvehicle. It may be a manufacturing defect which has become the subject of a government-mandated recall. You should check with another dealer, thevehicle manufacturer or an independent service provider--such as those listed below--to see if there are any Technical Service Bulletins (TSBs), ìfieldfixes or other service-related information for your vehicle which would indicate that the problem you are experiencing is a common one. In cases ofgovernment-mandated recalls, the dealer is obliged to notify you as a vehicle owner. However, you may check for yourself by calling the vehiclemanufacturers 800 number, the EPA (for emissions systems issues) or the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA, for safety-relatedissues).

 

 

EPA: 202/233-9040

NHTSA: 800/424-9393

Chiltons: 610/964-4600

AllData: 916/684-5200

Motor Publications: 800/426-6897

American Automobile Manufacturers Association: 313/872-4311

Japanese Automobile Manufacturers Association: 202/296-8537

Determine the True Cause of the Problem

 

If possible, attempt to independently verify the accuracy of the claims made by the dealership. The manufacturer of the aftermarket part may be helpfulto you in providing a technical assessment of the problem. If there is a reasonable possibility that the aftermarket product caused the problem, it may bebest to try to reach a compromise. If, however, it is clear that the aftermarket product is unrelated to the problem, you should attempt to gather asmuch information as possible to support your claim. Useful evidence might include photos, copies of relevant service information, records of priorrepairs performed under warranty or the objective written opinion of a qualified third party (with relevant experience, accreditation, etc.).

 

Try to Work it Out With the Dealer

 

Once prepared with the appropriate support information and a basic understanding of the law, present the facts to the dealers service manager andmake an effort to resolve the situation. Keep the discussion objective and professional. Make sure to take notes of any significant claims orexplanations made by dealership personnel and try to obtain a written explanation if possible.

 

If discussions with the service manager do not bring about a resolution, speak with the owner of the dealership. Many problems can be resolved at thislevel. If there is a known pattern failure which matches your problem, be sure to bring this to the dealers attention. The dealer is able to obtainreimbursement from the vehicle manufacturer under such circumstances. If there is no pattern failure, but other evidence that exists contradicts thedealers conclusion, be sure the dealer is made aware of it. Also explain that you are aware of your rights under EPAs emissions warranty and theMagnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Again, if there is a reasonable possibility that either the aftermarket product or its installation could be the cause of theproblem, your best bet is to suggest a compromise with the dealer. In many cases, presenting an objective technical assessment and a basicunderstanding of the law will do the trick.

 

However, if you believe that you are entitled to warranty service, but the dealer disagrees, you can take other steps to seek a resolution to the dispute.

 

Get it in Writing

 

If a dealership denies warranty coverage, they should be willing to do so in writing. Have the dealer describe the failure which is causing your problemAND how the dealer believes the aftermarket product installed is responsible for the problem. Keep an accurate log of all contacts andcorrespondence in addressing the warranty denial.

 

Contact the Vehicle Manufacturers Zone Representative

 

If a car manufacturer backs your warranty, and you have a dispute with the dealer about either service or coverage, contact the local manufacturersrepresentative. This local or zone representative has the authority to adjust and make decisions about warranty service and repairs to satisfycustomers.

 

Some manufacturers are also willing to repair certain problems in specific models free of charge, even if the manufacturers warranty does not cover theproblem. Ask the zone representative or the service manager whether there is such a policy.

 

The procedure for contacting your zone representative is usually provided in your owners manual. This information can also be obtained from a dealer,or by calling the manufacturers customer service number, as listed in your owners manual. Present your case to the zone representative. Be sure toindicate how the dealer responded to your information, especially if dealership personnel were notably uncooperative, etc. Once again, be sure to getas much information in writing as you can; request that any determinations or actions which are promised by the zone representative be confirmed by aletter or a fax.

 

Contact the Vehicle Manufacturer Directly

 

You may find that contact with the zone representative does not resolve the matter. If you are still not satisfied, the next step is to contact the vehiclemanufacturer directly. Most carmakers maintain a contact office or a special department that is responsible for dealing with warranty issues (See Attachment B for details).

 

Using the information you have gathered and any additional information you may have to supplement your case, forward a letter directly to the vehiclemanufacturers customer service office (sometimes called dispute resolution board or something similar). Be sure to explain your situation in detail andin a logical, easy-to-understand manner. Provide as much detail as you can about your contacts with the dealer and the zone representative. Do nothesitate to state if you felt you were treated improperly or unfairly by either. The vehicle manufacturer will almost always respond to you with a letter;sometimes promptly, sometimes not. Again, be sure to retain all correspondence in case you need it for future use. Generally, the vehicle manufacturerhas the greatest interest in ensuring your satisfaction; they want you to remain loyal to their brand. As such, they will likely make a good faith effort toresolve the issue particularly if there is a known pattern of similar failures. If there is a request for any additional information, be sure to keep a record ofwhat you send. If the manufacturer should still decide against you, make sure that their refusal letter provides an explanation of how they believe theaftermarket part caused the problem.

 

Local Approaches You Can Try

 

If you cannot get satisfaction from the dealer, the zone representative or the manufacturer, contact one or all of the following:

 

 

Better Business Bureau

State Attorney General

Local Department of Motor Vehicles

State Consumer Protection Office

Many states also have county and city offices that intervene or mediate on behalf of individual consumers to resolve complaints.

 

You also might consider using a dispute resolution organization to arbitrate your disagreement if you and the dealer are willing. Under the terms of manywarranties, this may be a required first step before you can sue the dealer or manufacturer. Check your warranty to see if this is the case.

 

If you bought the vehicle from a franchised dealer, you may be able to seek mediation through the Automotive Consumer Action Program(AUTOCAP). AUTOCAP is a dispute resolution program coordinated nationally by the National Automobile Dealers Association (NADA: 800/252-6232), and sponsored through state and local dealer associations in many cities. Check with the dealer association in your area to see if theyoperate a mediation program.

 

National Approaches You Can Try

 

Since the manufacturers failure to honor the terms of the warranty may be a violation of federal law, you can pursue the issue with the appropriatefederal agency.

 

You can call or write the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and ask for assistance on non-emission-related problems. Input from consumers is veryimportant to the work of the FTC. These contacts with consumers are often the first indication of a problem in the marketplace and may provide initialevidence to begin an investigation. Although the agency cannot act to resolve individual problems, it can act when it sees a pattern of possible lawviolations.

 

FTC, Washington, D.C.: 202/326-3128The FTC also maintains regional offices to field consumer complaints. For the telephone number to one near you, see Attachment B.

 

In the case of a problem with an emission-related component, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is the organization to contact. A pamphletpublished by the EPA on emissions warranty matters called ìWhat You Should Know About Your Auto Emissions Warranty,î can help explain youroptions. In essence, the EPA requires that you exhaust all of your options with the vehicle manufacturer before you contact the Agency. In all cases,you must correspond in with the EPA in writing. You must also provide copies of all correspondence with the dealer and manufacturer, as well as anyindependent evidence you may have that describes the cause of the problem. The better you are able to make your case that the aftermarket part wasnot the cause of the failure, the more likely you are to get EPAs help. The EPA is particularly interested in any evidence of a pattern failure beinginvolved.

 

Warranty ComplaintField Operations and Support Division (EN-397F)U.S. Environmental Protection AgencyWashington, D.C. 20460Telephone: 202/233-9040 or 202/233-9100

 

You can also call the Bureau of Consumer Protections Office of Consumer & Business Education at 202/326-3650.

 

Final Steps

 

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act may also be helpful. Under this federal law, you can sue on breach of express and implied warranties. The mainpoint of interest here is that the Act says warranty coverage may not be conditioned upon the use of only the vehicle manufacturers parts unless theparts are provided free of charge. In other words, use of a non-carmaker product should not void your warranty unless it caused the problem.

 

Obviously, litigation can involve considerable time and expense on your part. However, if the cost of the warranty claim is high enough, this may be anoption to consider. Any such lawsuit or claim would have to be fought on the unique merits of the case and we recommend that you consider findingqualified legal counsel familiar with this area of law. In some cases, the filing of a lawsuit may encourage a settlement of the dispute. You should also beparticularly aware of the fact that once you file a lawsuit or claim against the dealer or manufacturer, your vehicle and your documentation may becomematerial evidence and may be subject to inspection and reviews in the lawsuit.

 

You can also consider going to small claims court, where you can resolve disputes involving small amounts of money for a low cost. The clerk of yourlocal small claims court can tell you how to file a suit and what the dollar limit is in your state. Again, this action will sometimes lead the parties to settlethe dispute.

 

No matter which steps you undertake, always approach the situation in a professional manner. Fits of anger, shouting, threats, and the like seldomaccomplish anything other than aggravating the situation. The best strategy is to stay calm and tactfully demonstrate your knowledge of your rights andpotential courses of action.

 

In most cases, it will not be necessary to go through the entire process described here. What you will normally find is that you will be able to resolveyour situation at a fairly early stage if you have the proper information in written form and you approach the issue in a calm, professional manner.

[vhato]

My girlfriend is a lab tech in a fuel testing lab here in Louisiana.  My '99 and two friends '01's all had a pinging problem on our 5.3L V-8's.  The pinging goes away when we run Super Unleaded.  My girlfriend tested several gallon samples from many different local stations on these huge engines and found none of them were actually the octane they advertised.  In short the best 87 octane fuel we found was 86 and the worst was 82.  The best Super Unleaded we found was 91 (93 advertised) the worst was 89. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Ranger Dave]

It is the fuel causing your ping.  The Vortc engines are just seem eiser to ping off this crap fuel.  I'm from Manitoba, Canada and moved to Ontario last year.  Truck never pinged and had good power.  Here it pings and feels like a dog.  If I run 94 here it seems like 87 out west.