Groaning while turning

chris_kucia · January 28, 2005

I've had my 2000 Sierra for close to a year now. Been pretty problem-free other than the standard stuff.

One thing has been bugging me...

When I'm in AWD and turn at slow speeds (up to about 30-35), I get a pretty prominent groaning and occassionally I get a bit of jerking or sticking at very low speeds (<10mph). Its very annoying and sounds like something is terribly wrong.

I don't think its the power steering pump (although mine is a little loud) because of the jerking and sticking - it feels like a traction or binding issue and that occurs even if I hold the steering wheel still as the truck turns (after pointing the wheels into a turn). It also seems worse when turning while backing up.

I first wrote it off to the 4wd and dry pavement, but it does it in ice or snow too and it seems much worse in the morning.

I crawled under there and found that the inner CV joint on the driver side was worn and the bearing into the front differential was a little loose. I replaced that entire axle - both inner and outer joints and changed out the seal and bearing. No change with the noise, although everything on the driveshafts are tight now.

I'd like to make the noise stop, but I'm not all that familiar with 4wd systems-this truck is my first. I don't get the noise in 2wd, but that doesn't necessarily point to the 4wd system itself.

The passenger side shaft and CV joints seem tight, as do all the suspension parts - I recently changed the idler and everything else is nice and tight.

I have the service manuals, but they really haven't been any help as far as diagnostics.

So, here are my suspicions. Maybe you guys can tell me if these sound reasonable, and how I might narrow down the diagnosis:

The passenger-side shaft and/or CV joints

Front wheel bearings

front differential

transfer case?

power steering box?

PS pump?

Anything else?

BTW, the fluids and filters were all changed last Feb and again in Oct/Nov - Oil / Trans / transfer case / both differentials. Ditto with greasing all the suspension joints.

Worse case, I have to take it to the dealer anyhow for the tailgate cables and the brake hose retention recalls. I guess I could have them diagnose it. What do the dealers charge for something like that - I've never used one?

Markeaux · January 29, 2005

So just how bad is the groaning/binding? It is normal to have some binding when in 4wd (even Auto) ... some time around 2002 I believe the Chev brochures touted a smoother 4wd during tight turns mostly for improved customer satisfasction.

GM-Tech · January 29, 2005

Anything else?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tire size is critical. Not so much the actual size, but they all must be identical. I've seen more than one that had different sized tires on the front vs. the back and it causes your kind of problem in AWD.

chris_kucia · January 29, 2005

Anything else?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tire size is critical. Not so much the actual size, but they all must be identical. I've seen more than one that had different sized tires on the front vs. the back and it causes your kind of problem in AWD.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tire sizes are identical - all four tires are less than two months old, and I experienced the same problem with the old worn-out tires which were also all the same size.

The groaning is difficult to describe. It is at a fairly low pitch and I can feel it through the steering wheel and floor. It isn't a smooth sort of whirring groan, like a power steering whine. It almost, but not quite, sounds like metal on metal. It sounds mechanical. To me, it sounds like the sound clutches would make if they were slipping and binding, but I don't want to read too much into it. The feeling is similar - sort of a stick-slip at times.

Definitely coming from the front of the vehicle, probably the driver side and it feels/sounds like something below the engine.

I suppose it could be the tires, but the noise sometimes is accompanied by what feels like resistance to the vehicle movement at low speeds. The resistance is a bit "jerky" sometimes. That's the part that worries me, and it only happens in AWD (I believe it also happens in 4wd, but I very seldom use that mode of operation).

Markeaux · January 29, 2005

I also get a slight metal whirring sound when turning in auto4wd, always have ... I use auto4wd when it rains and disable it when making tight turns like when parking.

chris_kucia · January 29, 2005

I was out today and did a bit of experimenting. Pavement is dry today.

If I turn the wheels in AWD when the truck isn't moving, I get no noise. I think that pretty much rules out the PS pump and gear.

Tomorrow (Sunday) morning, I should be able to find an empty parking lot that I can drive around in. Hopefully, I can get some more specific information then.

99-2door · January 30, 2005

Unless your truck is a Denali, you do not have AWD. You have Auto 4WD. Not the same thing.

Since it does it in both Auto and 4WD positions. I would say it is something in the front diff.

Does it do it only on very sharp turns, almost full lock? or even small turns?

chris_kucia · January 30, 2005

Unless your truck is a Denali, you do not have AWD. You have Auto 4WD. Not the same thing.

Since it does it in both Auto and 4WD positions. I would say it is something in the front diff.

Does it do it only on very sharp turns, almost full lock? or even small turns?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for correcting my terminology - it is the Auto 4wd that I meant. AWD is easier to say!

It seems that the sharper the turn, the more pronounced the groan is. I'll have more info tomorrow when I take it out for a drive.

71GMC_3/4T · January 30, 2005

I'd probably try changing the fluid and adding the limited slip additive from GM. I don't think it would hurt a non-L.S. axle to run it, but yours might be limited slip anyway. You could also go with synthetic and see if that helps the noise.

Good Luck!

sgiangregorio · January 31, 2005

Sounds exactly like what I've experienced, and I've been told it's normal by the dealer. Now, I just live with it. There's some things on my truck that I've just given up arguing about, that's one of them. I don't get the binding however, just the growling.

airbalancer · February 1, 2005

is the wife in the passenger seat when it hapens,

o sorry you said the noise only happens when when you turn and not all the time

chris_kucia · February 1, 2005

Sorry for the delay. Picked up a nasty cold and was laid up sunday and monday.

I got into the office early this morning and the parking lot was empty, so I was able to play around for awhile. Its really difficult to reliably generate the noise. This might be because everything was warmed up by the time I got to work.

Anyhow, it is most pronounced when I turn the wheel all the way to the left and slowly move forward. It almost sounds like something is rubbing, and I want to check underneath and verify that the tires aren't (although they are the stock size so they shouldn't, and I get the noise sometimes when I'm not at full lock). I couldn't replicate the noise forward or backward with the wheel turned full right, although I do back out of the driveway in the morning with the whell full-right and I get the noise.

I wonder if I'm not making too big a deal out of this. Maybe it is just the tires slipping.

Anyhow, I don't recall if I have synthetic in the front differential. I used whatever was spec'd by the service manual. I'm sure synthetic was required for the rear diff, but I can't recall what the front required.

I'll try to do some more experimenting to see if I can't get a reliable replication of the noise. If I'm going to take it to a dealer, I better be able to make it happen on command.