Lease is up...

deduncan · February 9, 2005

So the lease on the wife's Outback is up, and based on our experience with the car, we've decided not to purchase it. We're now faced with an impending purchase within the next week or two. I've had my eye on a few vehicles. We have a few pre-requisites: 1) Vehicle must be used, 2) Vehicle must be an SUV for camping/dog toting reasons, 3) Vehicle must have less than 60k miles, 4) Vehicle must be less than $20k. So, I've been doing a bit of research and have come up with the following few possibilites:

1 - Trailblazer/Envoy - this is my first choice for a couple reasons. I like the size. I don't tow, so I really don't have the need for a huge engine. I like the way it looks. I've heard that the '02s have issues, so I was thinking '03 or beyond. There are plenty of these in my area.

2 - Tahoe/Yukon - This is my second choice. I'll never complain about more power if it falls in my lap. I'm slightly apprehensive about this one due to the gas mileage. The size of this vehicle will also make it too big to fit in the garage.

3 - Expedition - Third choice. Although my blood bleeds GM blue, I am forcing myself to have an open mind. These have gotten surprisingly good reviews amongst those that have owned the vehicles. Other than some tranny issues, this looks like a pretty solid vehicle.

4 - Explorer - Fourth choice. I like the styling of the new explorer, and there's a couple inexpensive ones in my area. I haven't heard a lot of pros or cons to the new explorer, so the jury is still out on this one.

There's a few small/mid/large SUVs that I'm not even considering:

1 - No Dodges/Chryslers/Jeeps. Bad experience in the past

2 - Not interested in the Escape for asthetic reasons.

3 - If I find a 4-runner in my price range, I'll consider it, but I'm unimpressed with the standard options these overpriced vehicles come with

4 - Not impressed with the power of the Rav-4

5 - Nissan/Mitsubishi make great cars. Haven't heard anything solid about their SUVs and I'm not too keen on the styling.

6 - No Hyundai. Need I say more?

So at this point, I'm trying to get feedback/input. What are your guys' experiences with these vehicles? Any positive or negative feedback? Anything that I need to consider or look at? I understand that the majority of the info will be biased towards GM, and I'm fine with that as I myself am biased the same way; however, I'm just trying to get honest feedback from people who own these vehicles and/or know someone that has.

Thanks in advance, guys!

speedde423 · February 9, 2005

2 - Tahoe/Yukon - This is my second choice. I'll never complain about more power if it falls in my lap. I'm slightly apprehensive about this one due to the gas mileage. The size of this vehicle will also make it too big to fit in the garage.

I've managed to get ~20mpg out of a 2002(?) Yukon, but I don't think that's common.

Anyway, my aunt manages to fit the Yukon in her garage, but it only fits by about an inch, if there's anything at all on the roof rails it hits. So that's something to keep in mind. I do think an Expedition would have hit.

I haven't driven/rode in a Trailblazer, so I don't know how those compare. So among the ones I've been in the Tahoe rates the best, it has plenty of power, and fairly quiet.

The Excursion is okay, but the ones I've been in creaked more, and had more road noise. When we rented the Excursion, the silver on the trim rings was already peeling, at about a month old. It seemed to have enough power, but just seemed cheaper than the Yukon.

The Explorer seemed to be just a smaller version of the Excursion, with its pros and cons. Another thing to consider is that I think UHaul won't allow you to rent a trailer if you have an Explorer due to the tire fiasco. That may have been changed for the newer models though.

Hope this help some.

Brian

Greg · February 9, 2005

I have a buddy with an Envoy and he likes it. I think it's tippy and I don't like the ride.

If you're considering small SUVs, how about the Saturn Vue? The new Vue has an optional 3.5L Honda engine and has awd. Some folks like the Equinox that share the same platform, but not the engine.

MGraber · February 9, 2005

My wife and I recently traded in our trailblazer (inline 6 motor) for a Yukon (5.3 motor). We actually get better gas milage with the Yukon than we do with the Trailblazer. I believe the best we ever managed was 16 in the trailblazer and now we consistantly see 17 or 18 for normal driving (mix of city and highway) and can get 20 on the highway only.

Daubs · February 9, 2005

My wife drives a Z-71 Burban and gets 13 around town and 17 highway (she drives it like she stole it). Brother has Tahoe and gets 15 city and 18 highway (sometimes even higher).

I'd opt for the Tahoe/Yukon. Brother has 65k on his and it's running great. No major problems at all. I think the t-blazer would be my #2 because it's GM. Not a Ford fan...do not like their interiors or reputation on the mechanical side.

I hear you on the Jeeps. Not a favorite of mine since my mother-in-law has one and it's always in the shop.

Get the 5.3, you will love the power and be very impressed with the MPG.

jerneedog · February 9, 2005

I don't have any experience with SUV's, but I don't like being able to see the spare

tire or the muffler on the TrailBlazer. I use to want one, until I drove behind one, and

was like, why would they let these things show like that? I dunno?

My personal preference would be a Tahoe/Yukon.

Good luck in your decission and let us know what you end up with.

Roostman · February 9, 2005

What issues did you have with the Outback? What year and model was it? Ive got an 03 LLBean model thats great but gonna be for sale soon. Probably around 23K if your interested.

deduncan · February 9, 2005

What issues did you have with the Outback? What year and model was it? Ive got an 03 LLBean model thats great but gonna be for sale soon. Probably around 23K if your interested.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We have an '01 Outback non-bean, 4-cyl. It was "ok", but I've had Subarus in the past, and in my humble opinion, Subaru dropped the ball. I'm sure I'll eventually have another Subaru in the future, but this one had a series of problems. My family is loyal to 2 companies: Subaru and GM. My wife and I, my sister, and my parents have Subarus ('00-'04 models). My brother-in-law and my father (and me, hopefully within the next 2 years) have C5s.

That being said, I want to stick with GM. I appreciate the input and it looks like the Tahoe is the clear winner. I'm going to drive both, but will definitely heed everyone's advice come paper-signing time. I'll let everyone know what I do, and if you have any more information, I'm definitely keeping an eye on this thread! This forum is awesome for honest and up-front information.

OnBelay · February 9, 2005

If Subaru hasn't completely lost your vote, I'd suggest you take a look at a new Forester. The 2.5 XT is a screamer (turbo, 0-60 in 5.5 sec) but the AWD system and interior layout beat the snot out of the Exploders we've had in the past; the steering/suspension ride are car like, big windows (esp. the HUGE sunroof) make driving a pleasure.

On top of that, the money is right; especially if you can find one that's been sitting on the lot for a while. The Subie dealer near me even has three '04s left, and he has the XT marked down to about $8k under sticker. If I didn't have an '04 already, I'd be over there grabbing one...

Only downside is the turbo requires 91 octane. Once I've got over 20k miles, I'll slip back to the 89.9 ethanol for every other tank, but until then it's kinda pricey.

bubba377 · February 10, 2005

I have had the yukon great suv 1 vote from me as for that f word my step mom has one 10 miles to the gallon rides like a tank goes through sway bar bushings (breaks the bolts)(stone lane) every 20000 miles in general P.O.S my dad has the 4.8 in his 2002 silverado truck gets 20 plus miles to the gallon but my sierra 2500 hd only gets 13 (heavy foot) good luck

Friz · February 10, 2005

On the Ford option, I have a buddy that will buy nothing but Ford products. 3 pickups, at least 3 Explorers, and 2 Expeditions.

The pickups have given him decent service, but all the Explorers and Expeditions have been major headaches. Most of his problems have been with the 4x4 drivetrain, a few computer/motor problems, and they get relly bad mileage. I can do better with my 1 ton crew cab than he can with the Expy.

Elwood 2000 · February 10, 2005

It depends on what SIZE of a rig you want. If you want big, go Tahoe. If you want mid-sized, look at the Honda Pilot or if you can find one within your budget, the Acura MDX (same as Pilot, just very upscale) is one hell of a ride!

Tucson_02Silverado · February 10, 2005

Have you thought about an S-10 Blazer? There might even be a new 2004 lurking around on some dealer lot somewhere with full 3/36 warranty?

Suzuki XL-7 for small

Tahoe/Yukon too big for garage?????? unless you were thinking burb or -XL

You said NOOO to Daimler....last resort consider 4dr Dakota 4.7L 2002/2003

friend has one, hasn't had trouble. Grand Cherokee 4.7L same years, other friend bought used 2002 in 2003, hasn't had trouble.

It's slightly over the 20K and it's newer, Equinox lots of rear leg room when that rear seat slides back. There might be "exec" returns or repos around would be under 20K.

USA1Fan · February 10, 2005

I traded an '03 Trailblazer LT (4200 I6) in on a full-sized pickup recently. As far as experiences go with the vehicle I really liked it a lot but needed the hauling ability of the truck (the increased tow capability is a plus, but the TB had good towing ability for my needs as it was).

The TB got decent gas mileage- anywhere from 13mpg (all city driving, Chicago area, averaging 27mph, winter gas, cold temperatures, etc.) to a best of just over 20mpg on highway driving here in the western NC area. The regular average for mixed (but mostly highway) down here was between 18 and 20. Based on posts for mileage with the Tahoes that I've read I'd say the TB has a slight advantage, but so miniscule as to make how you drive either one more important than the actual rating. I know my 1500 LS EC SB Z-71 pickup is actually 1-2mpg worse than the TB was given similar driving styles (or even slightly more conservative, since I tend to drive a bit slower to optimize the gas usage) to what I had with the TB.

Towing- I pulled our 2004 Malibu sedan from northern IL down here behind the TB, using a U-Haul tow dolly. I'm certain we'd actually overloaded the TB a bit, since I had myself, my wife, and our two children, plus the back fully crammed with personal belongings (mostly suitcases and clothing) as well as having the car completely stuffed (trunk AND interior, including the driver's seat) with our stuff. The car itself lists as 3500lbs dry (and it definitely wasn't dry, ). Tow rating for the 3.73 TB 4x4 like I owned was around 5800lbs, if I recall correctly. Anyway, we managed a best mileage with all this of over 17mpg for one tank on the trip, and a worst of just over 15. In all cases it handled just fine, and pulled some of the steep mountains we crossed on the way at 70mph (obviously in 3rd) with no trouble at all. I've also towed U-Haul trailers in order to haul some things we bought for the new house from the stores (one of the reasons I eventually traded, as it got old having to visit U-Haul every time we wanted to buy something else that wouldn't fit comfortably in the back, and then there were just the times where what we were hauling made me uncomfortable being in the interior, regardless that it fit). Again, no issues as far as towing went.

As an all-around day-to-day family hauler the TB excelled too. My kids loved the DVD system (I had one dealer installed, since my LT had the factory moonroof too) while on the roads, and the seating both front and rear was comfortable all around, with plenty of space in the back for most of the normal things you buy at the stores from week to week. It rode very well for a 4600+ lb vehicle too, even better than many cars I've driven. However some might find it a bit "floaty", and the way it liked to lean in harder cornering combined with soft side / bottom bolsters on the (cloth, in ours) front seats made it feel like it was going to roll. Since I drove it for over 18 months I had plenty of time to discover that despite the feeling it actually was capable of handling MUCH harder cornering than that without even chirping a tire.

Power- I tested out an extended TB 4x4 with the 5.3 V8 on the same day as I tested out the regular 4x4 4200 I6 that we eventually bought. The I6 in the regular length vehicle was actually peppier feeling and more responsive than the V8, most likely due to weight differences between the two vehicles. I'd make the same comparison to the 5.3 in my truck vs. the I6 in the TB- the TB was just more responsive. I understand that with some aftermarket reprogramming, especially to remove the torque management, the 5.3's get some real fire going. But stock-to-stock I'd expect the lighter TB to feel stronger than the Tahoes. Of course, the situation with a trailer behind it (especially larger ones approaching the capacity of the vehicle) might be reversed, much as it is for the 5.3 trucks vs. their 2500/3500 brethren with the 6.0 / 8.1 gasser engines.

Looks- No contest, the TB is the best looking of the bunch, at least in LT trim (uh, I did make ONE change to mine- replaced the factory chrome LT grill with the paint matched grill from an LTZ of the same color. Newer models, 04+?, seem to come with the painted grills in most LTs though. The only exception I make to the statement of what looks best is if you're looking at the Z71 Tahoes. Really like the looks of THOSE vehicles, the best of practically any SUV I've seen on the road in the past 10 years. Possibly the only hangup with the TB appearance (ALL models, regardless of trim) is the spare tire and the exhaust baffle that hang down in back. I got used to it and find it not to be too much of an eyesore any more, but wish GM could have found a good way to hide those without compromising interior space or exterior styling.

Reliability- I had no troubles with mine at all, other than a driver's side fender insert (foam stuffing up inside the front fender that keeps air from coming back through the fender to the front of the door) that slid back to where it was touching the door when I opened it. The dealership reseated it where it belonged and glued it into place. I admit that my experiences don't seem to be the norm though, since I'm also a member of the GMInsideNews forums, and the TB has been rated the most unrealiable of GMs late vehicles in a poll topic (I still disagree with it, but only because of my OWN experiences, lol). Just in case, you might want to make sure you get any TB you're seriously considering buying looked over by a private mechanic before commiting. (On the other hand, if it's in good shape, they seem to sell quickly. I know mine was on the used lot for the local dealership for about a day, then sold..)

Good luck with whatever vehicle you eventually settle on. And please post back here after you do. We'd love to hear what you end up with.

deduncan · February 10, 2005

Well...

We had our heart set on a Tahoe, and were planning on going Tahoe shopping this weekend until we got a call from the leasing company this morning. They gave us an incredible interest rate, knocked off the remaining payments of the lease, and even knocked some off of the residual of the Subaru (They're giving us $10k on a 4-year-old Outback with 30k miles on it...can't beat that). This deal was too good to pass up. We've had the vehicle since it had 8 miles on it. We know how the miles were put on, how the maintenance was done, etc. I can't say the same about a lot of used vehicles I've had.

So at this point, the larger SUV will have to wait. I did further research after hearing everyone's suggestions, and Consumer Reports has given the Tahoe/Yukon incredible ratings for the 2004 model. We've decided that this will be our next vehicle purchase, thanks in large part to the input that you all provided.

Thanks again, this forum is great!