Duramax and Amsoil--> May Need To Be Cautious

[TxDoc]

Thanks csimo:

 

Another user (NoMo) made an interesting statement about Amsoil in another thread that caused me to do additional investigation. Thanks to NoMo for putting me on this trail. Please follow me on this logic because it's important.

 

Amsoil makes four motor oils they claim are for use in Diesel engines. Three are fully synthetic (30 weight, 5W-30, and 15W-40) and one is a synthetic blend (15W-40). Let's forget about the 30 weight oil and the synthetic blend oil for this conversation, and we'll concentrate on the fully synthetic oils that some here are using.

 

I will post verbatim from some sections of the 2002 Duramax Diesel Supplement page 6-18 which is titled "What Kind of Engine Oil to Use". Next to a graphic of the API service doughnut is the following statement: "This donught-shaped logo (symbol) is used on most oil containers to help you select the correct oil. It means that the oil has been certified by the American Petroleum Institute. You should look for this on the oil container, and use only those oils that display the logo." There is also a NOTICE that says "If you use oils that don't have one of these designations either CH-4 or CG-4, you can cause engine damage which is not covered by your warranty." You can read it yourself in your own manual for verification.

 

These are clear statements! Use only the proper API Certified oil or your warranty won't cover any damage.

 

I called the American Petroleum Institute to find out if Amsoil fully synthetic diesel oil is API approved (I talked to Kathy in the Motor Oils Division). I was told that Amsoil has been issued API License Number 0995 but that DOES NOT cover any of their multi-grade fully synthetic diesel oils. NoMo pointed out that the Amsoil does not carry the API starburst or donught-shaped logo.

 

Amsoil fully synthetic diesel oils are not API approved and are not approved for the use in your Duramax. API told me that all oils submitted for certification are tested by both their labs and an independent lab before a license for certification is granted. They would not tell me if Amsoil has submitted their oils and they failed, or if they have never submitted their oils for testing.

 

Amsoil claims that their synthetic diesel oils are "Recommended for Applications Requiring the Following Specifications:" and list various API ratings, but that is not the same a being API Certified, and not approved for the Duramax. They are telling you that you should beleive them that it meets API specifications, but we really don't know if it does or not. We do know it's not Certified as such. The only API Certified engine oils listed under the Amsoil license are the XL-7500 and PCO (synthetic blend) motor oils.

 

I asked about various fully synthetic diesel oils that ARE API Certified. They told me of many, but the one that stood out was issued API License Number 0022... Mobil Delvac 1. Treat your engine right and use the right oil.

 

I do not work for any engine oil manufacturer, and I do not sell any kind of motor oil. I did spend about 15 years in management in the automotive manufacturing industry. I have known some of the best automotive engineers in the world and I know that most of what they do is for a reason.

[TxDoc]

And, a Cismo follow up:

 

Here is more info. from API. Please note that these pages may take a long time to load.

The actual license between Amsoil and API is here:

http://www.api.org/cgi-bin/eolcs_li.cgi?k=767

 

All API Certified CH-4 diesel oils:

http://www.api.org/cgi-bin/eolcs_li.cgi?c=CH%2D4

 

 

All API Certified CI-4 diesel oils:

http://www.api.org/cgi-bin/eolcs_li.cgi?c=CI%2D4

 

You can also note that there are some very, very small compaines that have API Certified motor oils. Some much smaller than Amsoil I'm sure. Here is a list of some of the smaller companies that did bother to get certified (I am not recommending any of them, but just posting some random names that appear to be very small compainies).

 

CAM2 OIL PRODUCTS, New Britain, PA 18901

CENTURY LUBRICANTS COMPANY, Kansas City, KS 66111

COASTAL UNILUBE, INC, Memphis, TN 38103

CONKLIN COMPANY INC, Shakopee, MN 55379

DAVID WEBER OIL COMPANY, Carlstadt, NJ 07072

DENNIS OIL COMPANY, Springfield, MO 65802

HYDROTEX, Carrollton, TX 75006

LUBRICANTS USA, Plano, TX 75075

LUBRICATING SPECIALITIES COMPANY, Pico Rivera, CA 90660

MCCOLLISTER & COMPANY, Council Bluffs, IA 51503

PINNACLE OIL INC, Indianapolis, IN 46268

ROYAL PURPLE, LTD., Porter, TX 77365

SCHAEFFER MANUFACTURING COMPANY, St. Louis, MO 63104

SCOT LUBRICANTS OF PENNSYLVANIA, Allentown, PA 18109

TOP OIL PRODUCTS COMPANY, Burlingame, CA 94010

[bowtie_pasta]

Good info, thanks!

[Black02Silverado]

Just a little info here.

 

It costs over $100,000 to get a single oil certified, according to AMSOIL, and then this locks in the formulation of the oil until you pay another $100,000+ to make an improvement.  AMSOIL invests their funds on research and development of their products, which exceed all specifications in the industry. Keep in mind that the API is made up of the big petroleum companies, so they have a vested interest in keeping the little guys broke.

 

The real issue here is that many oil companies set their sights at "meeting" the minimum standards for oil certification.  AMSOIL looks well past minimum standards, and stands directly behind their oil.

 

Also take a look at the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. This helps with understanding what is and what is not covered by warranty.

 

In any event, look at this article that will explain that wearing the API donut is not a guarantee.  The API will not stand behind the oil if there is an engine failure, the company will, with or without the certification:

 

 

API Finds One in Five Licensed Oils Off-Spec

Deviations from API-issued specifications could have a negative impact on engine operability.

According to the American Petroleum Institute’s 2001 Aftermarket Audit Report released in May, more than one in five API-licensed oils were found to be off-spec in 2001. Collecting and testing over 600 bulk and bottle samples of API-licensed engine oils, API found 16 percent had “marginal” deviations and five percent had “significant” deviations from the API-issued specs. According to API, the five percent identified as having “significant” deviations “are so far outside compliance limits that they could potentially raise short-term or long-term engine operability concerns.”

Oil samples were obtained from various locations. Bottle samples were taken from retail outlets, while bulk samples were taken from quick lube facilities, auto repair shops, service stations, auto dealers and truck facilities.

API licensed a total of 6,500 lubrication products last year, 18 percent more than in 2000. The 602 products tested represent nine percent of all API-licensed products, falling short of API’s original goal of testing samples of all brands and viscosity grades under current API license.

Poor performance in low temperature has been a problem in many currently marketed engine oils, and the API numbers show a one percent cold cranking simulator and pumping noncompliance rate and an even more significant three percent foaming noncompliance rate. The viscosity was out of grade for less than one percent of the oils tested, and the only SAE 5W-20 oil tested failed wear measurements for three of 12 camshaft lobes in the Sequence IIIF engine sequence test.

The oils tested were not broken down according to which countries they were obtained from, so the out-of-spec products could have potentially been blended by any of API’s 561 licensees in 49 nations. However, over half of all API licensees are in the United States and Canada, with another 20 percent in Asia.

Under API Publication 1509, API has several options in their attempts to remedy the situation, including “Temporary suspension of the authority of the licensee to use the API Mark, termination of the authority of the licensee to use the API Mark on an individual product or on all API-licensed products, and requiring the licensee to remove non-complying products.”

No specific information is available concerning what course of action API will take following the 2001 audit, but an API spokesperson said, “Licensees have changed suppliers, put new quality control procedures in place to prevent possible mixing of products, removed products from licenses, run additional tests on samples, and reformulated products. These actions and responses are typical of those that we have received over the last five years. API has even asked for product recalls and cancelled licenses. Both of these have occurred in the last two or three years.”

Six hundred audit samples are scheduled to be tested for 2002, including 120 API SJ and 300 SPI SL engine oils and 180 diesel oils. Up to 20 engine sequence tests are planned, split between Sequence IIIF and VG tests.

While some motor oils fail to meet the minimum standards issued by API, AMSOIL continues to set its sights well past API standards. Amsoil Synthetic Motor and Diesel Oils are world-class lubricants that exceed the toughest worldwide specifications, providing second-to-none protection and performance for extended drain intervals.

 

There are many out there that run AMSOIL in their Powerstroke and Cummins with awesome results.  Is the Dmax any different?

 

You can use what ever oil you want to, just remember there is more to the eye than most know. The fact that an API stamp is on the bottle doesn’t mean it is all that. It met the minimum standard set by the API.  Wouldn’t you rather use something that well surpasses the “Standard”?.

 

The link below gives a little help in understanding the Maguson-Moss Warranty Act. I found it on another Performance parts web page.

Maguson-Moss Warranty Act.