Warranty problems with a dealer

oldtimer · January 10, 2005

My friend ownes a 2002 GMC Duramax and he went in to get some work done on his truck and they told him that the warranty on his truck was voided after he cranked up the torsion bars on his truck and put on aftermarket wheels and tires. I was wondering if this is true and if he should contact GM and make them aware of this problem.

GM-Tech · January 10, 2005

My friend ownes a 2002 GMC Duramax and he went in to get some work done on his truck and they told him that the warranty on his truck was voided after he cranked up the torsion bars on his truck and put on aftermarket wheels and tires. I was wondering if this is true and if he should contact GM and make them aware of this problem.

I would assume he didn't just put on some fancy wheels of the exact same size. In my experience, they always put on some monster wheels/tires on those trucks. *Technically* I suppose they could say that because of that, true mileage is unknown and therefore they cannot do any warranty.

In reality, if he's not complaining about some suspension related concern or tire/wheel issue, it shouldn't be a problem. But if he has to battle the dealer, then it's going to be difficult.

oldtimer · January 10, 2005

He put 285's on it with a 16 inch wheel. But the funny part about the whole thing is that the dealer has an 05 with the torsion bars cranked up to fit 285's with aftermarket wheels.

dcalex · January 10, 2005

You know, I'm thinkin that this warranty business just might blow up in all our faces one of these days. I'm worried that the courts are going to be getting more & more involved and who knows where that will takes us....and what the manufacturers reaction would be. I can see both sides I think.....owners making really radical modifications and then demanding the dealers & warranty to fix the mess. On the other side, a 245/75/16 tire on a HD truck that makes it look like roller skates and owners wanting no more than to go to 265's or 285's to take it up where it should have been in the first place. There's a lot of room here for good common sense on both sides and if the courts get involved, you can bet common sense will be the first victim.

I seen a dealer bringing a brand new truck in the other day with big (305 ish) tires, a lift, the works. I asked about it, and they were doing it for the new owner. When I asked about the warranty issues on this truck, they said the same as GM-Tech said; that it has jeapordized the warranty if suspension, etc. becomes an issue even though the dealer arranged for the modifications to be done. I assume they told the new owner all this.

Getting way too complicated in my opinion.

SilverCrew · January 10, 2005

You know, I'm thinkin that this warranty business just might blow up in all our faces one of these days. I'm worried that the courts are going to be getting more & more involved and who knows where that will takes us....and what the manufacturers reaction would be. I can see both sides I think.....owners making really radical modifications and then demanding the dealers & warranty to fix the mess. On the other side, a 245/75/16 tire on a HD truck that makes it look like roller skates and owners wanting no more than to go to 265's or 285's to take it up where it should have been in the first place. There's a lot of room here for good common sense on both sides and if the courts get involved, you can bet common sense will be the first victim.
I seen a dealer bringing a brand new truck in the other day with big (305 ish) tires, a lift, the works. I asked about it, and they were doing it for the new owner. When I asked about the warranty issues on this truck, they said the same as GM-Tech said; that it has jeapordized the warranty if suspension, etc. becomes an issue even though the dealer arranged for the modifications to be done. I assume they told the new owner all this.

Getting way too complicated in my opinion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's why I kept my factory rims/tires. You can bet your arse they are going back on there if the truck ever has to go in for warranty work.

GM-Tech · January 10, 2005

Common sense is definitely called for. Unfortunately, some dealerships will see any modification of any kind as a reason to deny warranty repairs. In my opinion, it's uncalled for in many cases whereas it is appropriate in others.

We have a Duramax in right now. He has monster wheels, K&N filter, and some sort of "black box" that uses a jumper to tie into the main engine harness. Some kind of performance mod I assume.

His problem is with the injectors leaking internally. He has an oil pan full of diesel fuel. Are we fixing it under warranty? Yep. I personally don't see any way we can fault the mods for that concern. Had he complained of a lack of power, a MIL on with a MAF DTC, etc., you can bet your boots I would have denied repairs until the engine was restored to stock configuration AND the MAF replaced, at his expense.

whitesnake01 · January 11, 2005

The dealer is not paying for the factory warranty, we are. Its like an insurance policy where all of us are obligated to chip in as part of our purchase price. The moment the truck is modified, it becomes a judgement call. And judgement calls typically play on the margins of the policy. When someone cheats on the policy, by pretending a truck was not modified, when it fact it was, it hits right back at you and me in the form of higher price on next year's model or on OEM parts.

Even if the courts come in, we know what the outcome is going to be. Same as yesterday. The cost of warranty repairs gets passed back to the consumer in the form of sticker price. So, you decide: do you want to pay for someone else's dubious claim next time you buy a new truck? Where do you draw the line? Do not expect someone else to pay for something you would not re-imburse them for when the tables are turned.

496 CUBIC INCHES · January 11, 2005

Have him go to a different dealer.

rascal · January 11, 2005

Isn't there some problem with not being able to re calebrate the speed with the allison, and it causing problems? maybe just with the abs.

dcalex · January 11, 2005

Isn't there some problem with not being able to re calebrate the speed with the allison, and it causing problems? maybe just with the abs.

I've read as much as I can find about this, and there's not a lot. From what I can gleen, the GM tech equipment can't re-calibrate tire size beyond a certain size (265/285?) not real shure....one of the tech's here will know. And at that, if I'm correct, it's speedo calibration only and not transmission. The moderate tire size changes doesn't seem to be a big issue with either trans or ABS....it's when they get radical that issues seem to arise. The 3500's come with 265's on them, so I don't see where the trans or ABS would be affected, but it would sure be nice to be able to tell the electronics what you were running so they could do the job they were designed for a bit better (warranty issues aside). I wish there were some good tech articles about this. All we have is guys experience and that leaves a lot to be desired since we don't really know how they use their trucks. Oh well, I'll do the same as your doing....reading and asking questions and trying to get an idea, even though it will be subjective.

Wingnut · January 11, 2005

Like GM-Tech says...As long as he's not trying to get them to work on a system directly effected by his mods, then it shouldn't even be an issue.

What sucks about the wheel/tire/suspension thing...They affect pretty much the entire drivetrain (including the engine) so it's easy to deny a claim because of them.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here....It's the Magnusson Act that specifies that the modification has to be the root cause of the failure in order to deny a warranty claim. For instance, if he's in for the wipers not working, they shouldn't have even brought up the topic of his wheels and tires. But if he's in there for alignment issues or transmission problems, I'm afraid he may be out of luck.

GM-Tech · January 11, 2005

I've read as much as I can find about this, and there's not a lot. From what I can gleen, the GM tech equipment can't re-calibrate tire size beyond a certain size (265/285?) not real shure....one of the tech's here will know.

The only calibrations we can program into the vehicle are for tire sizes the vehicle originally came equipped with or could have come equipped with. I've looked at a couple of 2005 VIN's and all I get from our programming software is, "Reconfiguration is not available for this vehicle" so in some instances, we may not be able to change it at all.

In some cases, such as the APPROVED 20" wheels/tires that GM sells as an add-on, we have to call in and get a VCI number (special calibration) to reprogram for that tire size. Before they give us the VCI number, they verify that the size is an authorized upgrade on that VIN.

We can't just punch in any old tire size that you put on your truck. I'm sure there are aftermarket solutions to this problem, but that's how it is at a GM dealership.

Shawn T · January 11, 2005

I've read as much as I can find about this, and there's not a lot. From what I can gleen, the GM tech equipment can't re-calibrate tire size beyond a certain size (265/285?) not real shure....one of the tech's here will know.

The only calibrations we can program into the vehicle are for tire sizes the vehicle originally came equipped with or could have come equipped with. I've looked at a couple of 2005 VIN's and all I get from our programming software is, "Reconfiguration is not available for this vehicle" so in some instances, we may not be able to change it at all.

In some cases, such as the APPROVED 20" wheels/tires that GM sells as an add-on, we have to call in and get a VCI number (special calibration) to reprogram for that tire size. Before they give us the VCI number, they verify that the size is an authorized upgrade on that VIN.

We can't just punch in any old tire size that you put on your truck. I'm sure there are aftermarket solutions to this problem, but that's how it is at a GM dealership.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is ironic. I was at my dealership two days ago and asked the service manager if he could recalibrate my trucks PCM for tire size. He told me that GM was now frowning on that process at dealerships and he could not be authorized to do it anymore. I asked him why. He said that the recal only affects the speedometer and not the tranny or wheel speed sensors for the ABS. I totally undersand this. The 285 size tire should not make enough difference in rotation to do any damage to the componants. All I want is a correct speedometer reading and an accurate DIC. Is this possible at any repair shop besides the dealership?

Butch 02 Denali · January 11, 2005

I've read as much as I can find about this, and there's not a lot. From what I can gleen, the GM tech equipment can't re-calibrate tire size beyond a certain size (265/285?) not real shure....one of the tech's here will know.

The only calibrations we can program into the vehicle are for tire sizes the vehicle originally came equipped with or could have come equipped with. I've looked at a couple of 2005 VIN's and all I get from our programming software is, "Reconfiguration is not available for this vehicle" so in some instances, we may not be able to change it at all.

In some cases, such as the APPROVED 20" wheels/tires that GM sells as an add-on, we have to call in and get a VCI number (special calibration) to reprogram for that tire size. Before they give us the VCI number, they verify that the size is an authorized upgrade on that VIN.

We can't just punch in any old tire size that you put on your truck. I'm sure there are aftermarket solutions to this problem, but that's how it is at a GM dealership.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is ironic. I was at my dealership two days ago and asked the service manager if he could recalibrate my trucks PCM for tire size. He told me that GM was now frowning on that process at dealerships and he could not be authorized to do it anymore. I asked him why. He said that the recal only affects the speedometer and not the tranny or wheel speed sensors for the ABS. I totally undersand this. The 285 size tire should not make enough difference in rotation to do any damage to the componants. All I want is a correct speedometer reading and an accurate DIC. Is this possible at any repair shop besides the dealership?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Any shop that does custom tuning with LS1Edit or HPTuners can put any size tire you want in there!

GM-Tech · January 11, 2005

This is ironic. I was at my dealership two days ago and asked the service manager if he could recalibrate my trucks PCM for tire size. He told me that GM was now frowning on that process at dealerships and he could not be authorized to do it anymore. I asked him why. He said that the recal only affects the speedometer and not the tranny or wheel speed sensors for the ABS. I totally undersand this.

Recalibrating for any old tire size is not an option, so I'm not sure what your service manager meant by all that. GM has never given us an official stance on the subject. They simply don't give us the means to do it so it's really not open for interpretation or frowning.

The calibration does affect the trans. Try disconnecting your vehicle speed sensor some time and see if it just affects the speedometer. The ABS is another issue, but it too is calibrated for tire size, though through a separate process. Updating the PCM tire size does not update the ABS tire size calibration. That can be done directly with a Tech 2, but size choices are still limited, though quite a few more than with PCM programming.

How much does a slight tire size change affect the ABS and/or the trans? I would say not enough to be noticeable by you or me. Will it have a negative effect on the ABS in a panic stop or cause long term durability issues with the trans? I have absolutely no idea.