RAINER AWD POS In Snow!!!

saubouin · January 20, 2005

I'm am absolutly pissed off and need to VENT!

First I need to back up a couple years. We bought a home in Northern Virginia, just outside of D.C. Live on top of a hill, don't know what the grade is but it can't be more than 7 or 8 percent. Our family car was a RWD Buick Roadmaster. Everytime it snowed I basically had to do a kamakazee run up the hill with foot on the gas and lots of steering input fish tailing all over the place. I knew an SUV was in order. So this past Spring we bought an 04 Rainer with V8 and AWD.

Fast forward today.

Weather forecast this morning calls for flurries, well it turns out to be about a couple inches of snow. Before anybody laughs a couple of inches of snow in DC brings this town to its knees during rush hour. I take subway home. Wife calls says she'll be late (took her 25 minutes to go 2 blocks from Tysons Corner). She calls back an hour later says "Honey this SUV is slipping all over the place can you walk down to the bottom of the hill and come get me"? I'm like What?! So I tell her to just drive it up the hill and she says no way.

So I walk down to the bottom of the hill and there she is waiting for me in the passenger side of the Rainer. I jump in all cocky thinking this thing is going to haul ass right up the hill. BULLs**t!!! The front wheels would not engage, kept making this clicking sound over and over again. Sort of like the computer was turning the AWD system on and off over and over again. Now mind you the Buick is moving forward but fishtailing all over the place. And it's barely moving forward. WTF!!!??? I don't know if it's just the Michelein X Terrain tires or what but this thing sucks. By the time I reached the top of the hill the idiot light came on for the AWD system on the dash. But that's probably due to it hunting between AWD and 2WD over and over again. I'm beginning to think GM really fu*ked up with the AWD system. At least my dad's AVALANCHE has the buttons that let you choose between 2 wheel hi and low. $40,000 for this?!

Sorry guys I know this is a little off topic but I just need to vent. I'm going to take this POS back to the dealership and there had BETTER be something wrong with the AWD system.

01silverado2500 · January 20, 2005

Welcome to the club! I got a 03 Bravada, which Buick stole to make into the Rainer; I love the SUV but hate the AWD. I never know if it’s in 4x4 and it seems like it slips around a lot. I had some trouble today on some very slippery hilly roads, I can tell it was in 4X4 but it had a hard time going. I wish that it would at least have a light on the dash to tell you when it is engaged into 4X4. I really dislike the AWD system; wish it had the option for push button. It seems to me like whenever I stop and go to take off that it is back in 2wd and it has to spin before it locks in and goes. Plus I have no clue how it works, how long it stays in AWD once its in, and it seems like no one knows this stuff. Well good luck, maybe get it checked now that the light is on, and be safe out there in the bad weather.

HillHound · January 20, 2005

My wife's Trailblazer gets awful traction in Auto Four Wheel Drive. Luckily it also has a conventional transfer case & in-cab controls to engage 4HI and 4LO. She pretty much keeps it in 4HI if there's snow or ice and uses the Auto 4WD for rain, gravel etc. It's a rear wheel drive vehicle and you manually engage Auto, 4HI and 4LO.

When it's in 4HI it gets exceptional traction on ice and snow, no problems-it just goes no matter how slick or steep. Neither of us is impressed with the Auto 4WD. I wonder if the Auto function in the Trailblazer is similar to the AWD system in the Ranier? Anybody know?

I didn't realize the Ranier and Bravada drive trains were set up that way. I always thought they were just like a Trailblazer's with a transfer case and manual drive mode selection. Well, I guess I hope your Ranier's problem is a malfunction that can be fixed rather than a design flaw. Let us know.

01silverado2500 · January 20, 2005

I wish we had that option, instead my Bravada had DUMBTRAK....opps....I mean SmartTrak.

MuranoSE · January 20, 2005

I wish we had that option, instead my Bravada had DUMBTRAK....opps....I mean SmartTrak.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree 100%. I would have never leased the Bravada if I knew the AWD was this crappy. I am currently leasing a 2003 Murano SE right now, and that AWD system is absolutely AMAZING. You have th option to LOCK in the AWD so that you know you are in AWD mode. Where as in the Bravada you have to keep you foot to the floor pretty much in order to maintain AWD. I've spun quite a fe times with the supposed SmartTRAK. I honestly wish I had the dial to control the 4 x 4 system like the Trailblazer, Envoy.

However I did put on a set of Toyo winter tires this past season, and they make a world of a difference.

USA1Fan · January 21, 2005

I don't recall the exact methods GM used for the AWD system on the Olds / Buick, but I thought they were always driving all four wheels, just to varying degrees based on current traction. I also remember for sure that the AWD system used on the Olds / Trailblazer twin wasn't the same sophisticated version used on the older Olds / S-10 Blazer twin. (A lot of this was discussed over on the Edmunds triplets forum, but there are a LOT of posts to look through now. Feel free to search their topic if you're still curious though.)

The Auto-4WD on the '03 Trailblazer I had worked great. With the TB's, it still drives the rear wheels but engages the fronts when a certain amount of slippage is detected. This did mean that you were pretty much guaranteed to have the rear end at least start to lose traction before the fronts kicked in, but every time this happened to me I was driving at speeds appropriate for the road conditions anyway, so it was nearly unnoticable (minor feeling of a BUMP or jerk as it engaged the fronts and moved on..).

Obviously 4hi didn't have that issue, but I could run A4WD on all surfaces, wet, dry, or otherwise. Can't do that with 4hi (unless you want to spend some money for repairs).

saubouin · January 21, 2005

UPDATE

Took the car in this morning. Hit it off with the service consultant (Dave Palumbo with Peacock Buick in Tysons Corner, VA) cause he own's a Silverado with the HI LO system which we discussed. I filled him in with as much detail as I could and left the car with them.

I just called to see what the status was. Dave said the his 1st mechanic reported there were no problems. So he got in the car with the service manager, found a slippery hill and made the service manager stand outside the car and watch the front tires. The thing was fishtailing all over the place with no engagement of the front wheels. He now has the TECH II hooked up to it. He says that it's possible it left the factory with out the PCM being properly configured to engage the front wheels. They are going to check all the 4wd settings in the computer with what the should be. Hopefully it's just a faulty sensor, blown fuse or something like that. If it turns out the PCM wasn't set right from the factory that could explain a lot of problems some of us have experienced. Will post again when final diagnostic comes in.

I'm just glad the dealer actually admitted there was a problem and Dave went through the trouble to find a slippery hill to test the car on.

Sebastien

saubouin · January 21, 2005

UPDATE II

Dave called me back and said they can't even get the TECH II to talk to the PCM. He has a call in to GM TECH SUPPORT (no kidding an IT section within GM that just deals with talking to the PCM) So either there's a bad ground or the PCM is toast. Hopefully this is the root of the problem, that way they can just plug n play a new At least that's better news than taking the tranny out of the car.

kclm7 · January 24, 2005

Glad to hear the Dealership is finding a problem.

I agree about the Dumbtrac statement. I've owned 3 s-series SUVs and all had the Autotrac 4wd (Auto, 4HI, 4LO, 2HI) buttons. When you put it in Auto 4wd it works just like the Smartrac system which means it's running in 2hi and engaging the front as needed. This is good on slick roads etc but focking sucks when you need real 4x4.

On each of mine I found the Auto 4x4 to suck in deep snow beause it's hunting for traction rather than just putting it to all 4 wheels. My Jimmy has the G80 locking rear axle as well so when I put it in 4HI it tears through the snow.

Hope they get it all fixed up for you.

Steve

saubouin · January 24, 2005

Just wanted everybody to know that the truck is fixed. Kudos to Dave Palumbo my service tech for being on top of this situation. He had GM fedex overnight a new Decoder Module. There was a bad ground in the module which stopped it from communicating to the AWD Hardware. They put the new part on this morning and took it back to a slippery hill to test the system. Goes up the hill like a champ now. As soon as some RWD slip is detected the fronts lock. Props to Peackock Buick in Tysons Corner. The called me a least 3 times a day to keep me updated on the situation. WIth all the horror stories we sometime read on these boards it's easy to forget that there are still a lot of great service departments out there.

Sebastien

P.S. Note to self. Vehicles do break. Try not to go crazy when they do.

PewterC3 · January 24, 2005

not all AWD systems are electronic systems that generally run in 2WD mode and kick in the other axle when the system "thinks" you need it. not really AWD but called such because it's not 4WD, with a high and lo range. Anyway, some are betteer then others.

The transfer case in the C3, Sierra Denali, and Silverado SS is a full time viscous unit AWD that provides 38% of the power to the front and 62% of the power to the rear all the time....unless slippage is detected then it moves more power where its needed.....seamlessly. It's a wondefull piece of machinery and will out perform traditional 4WD on just about any surface... but rock climbing.

HillHound · January 27, 2005

The transfer case in the C3, Sierra Denali, and Silverado SS is a full time viscous unit AWD that provides 38% of the power to the front and 62% of the power to the rear all the time....unless slippage is detected then it moves more power where its needed.....seamlessly. It's a wondefull piece of machinery and will out perform traditional 4WD on just about any surface... but rock climbing.

Just curious, does these machines have 4LO capability in case you need to transfer more engine power to the entire drivetrain? I don't know alot about the systems in the trucks you mentioned but I just can't imagine that any AWD system is superior to a conventional transfer case system with 4LO in something like thick mud or deep sand. If I'm wrong, hey I learn something new every day!

Sebastien-glad you got it fixed. Nice of you to give credit to the service guys who helped you out!