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We were talking at work last night about oils and got to wondering about Synthetics..While we all use Mobil 1 Syn. we got to talking about other brands like Valvoline and Pennzoil..Do they compare at all to Mobil or is it years ahead of the others ?

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I usually use mobil-1 10W30 full synthetic but when I had my brakes worked on a few months ago I asked them to do an oil change as well and they used valvoline 10W30 full synthetic. I changed the oil yesterday after 3000 miles and it seemed dark brown compared to the lighter brown/dark purple I am used to seeing with the Mobil-1. I really believe that Mobil-1 is the best thing out there synthetics wise, and I am sure you'll hear people scream that Amsoil is the best, but I don't consider Amsoil for my truck because no one around here carries the stuff.

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Check out the new Mobil 1 EP

 

This has the highest amount of oil adative package ZDP ( zinc dialkyldithiophosphate) which is an anti-wear compound comprised of zinc and phosphorus of any synthetic or Non-synthetic oil. That is the main reason Mobil oil gives it a 15,000 mile oil change interval.

 

Read more about oils, filters etc at bob is the oil guy forums to come to your own conclusions to tell the difference between the real deal and snake oils.

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Most synthetic oils are a group III,which means they are a highly refined dino oil. A few years back Castrol won a legal battle and was granted permission to call their highly refined dino oil synthetic.

 

Brands like Pennzoil,Castrol,Chevron,Havoline,Valvoline,and most house brands are a Group III.

 

Brands like Mobil 1,Redline,Royal Purple,and Amsoil are a Group IIII and a true synthetic.

 

Just because an oil is a Group III doesn't mean its bad,its just that a Group III is usually priced as high as a Group IIII. If I'm paying 5$ per qt. for synthetic oil,I'll be sure its actually synthetic,and not highly refined dino oil.

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We were talking at work last night about oils and got to wondering about Synthetics..While we all use Mobil 1 Syn. we got to talking about other brands like Valvoline and Pennzoil..Do they compare at all to Mobil or is it years ahead of the others ?

 

 

 

 

If GM warranty is still in effect keep in mind GM last year reworded their policy on what oils that can be used and will not effect warranty.

 

Read about new GM policy Blog

on new Dextron VI for trannie and what engine oils they allow which are Mobil I, Chevron and Texaco.

 

Vendors used to claim they met or exceeded GM specs even though they not only were not API certified but also never tested and approved by GM so GM now states the oil MUST have the API starburst label AND be registered by GM

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Mobile 1 just has a better marketing department.  But I will not use anything else in my Vehicles.

 

 

 

The marketing machines of all of them seem to be working fine. They have you all believing that you need to run synthetic oil in your trucks. As a guy that has spent my entire working career in the fleet maintenance arena and has looked over thousands of oil sample reports, they got ya all fooled. Sorry to say....you aren’t doing anything meaningful by using synthetic oil.

 

By the way look at the bottle of your Mobil 1 Extended Performance, do you see the API Starburst. Didn’t think so...... The current rating limits the phosphorus levels in engine oil. Phosphorus is a major component of ZDDP the anti-wear component that they have increased. They say it isn’t certified because it doesn’t meet the fuel mileage requirements. Sounds like some more synthetic oil marketing smoke and mirrors to me……

 

Doug

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Mobile 1 just has a better marketing department.  But I will not use anything else in my Vehicles.

 

 

 

The marketing machines of all of them seem to be working fine. They have you all believing that you need to run synthetic oil in your trucks. As a guy that has spent my entire working career in the fleet maintenance arena and has looked over thousands of oil sample reports, they got ya all fooled. Sorry to say....you aren’t doing anything meaningful by using synthetic oil.

 

By the way look at the bottle of your Mobil 1 Extended Performance, do you see the API Starburst. Didn’t think so...... The current rating limits the phosphorus levels in engine oil. Phosphorus is a major component of ZDDP the anti-wear component that they have increased. They say it isn’t certified because it doesn’t meet the fuel mileage requirements. Sounds like some more synthetic oil marketing smoke and mirrors to me……

 

Doug

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, I am using Amsoil and the bottle does have the API Starburst Symbol(For Gasoline Engines, Energy Conserving) and it meets GM Spec 4718M. I take both my Truck(02 Suburban) and Car (02 Malibu) to the dealer to change the oil. I checked to see if using Synthetic oil would void the warranty and I was told that as long as the oil had the Starburst symbol and met the GM Spec 4718M that there would be no problem with the warranty. Also, I got 3MPG better mileage in the car and a 2MPG improvement in the truck. I thought like you about synthetic oil but after trying the Amsoil I have seen the light and I am a believer. I am also using Amsoil Gear oil in my F&R axles in my truck. I would recommend this oil to anyone. :D:D:D:cheers:

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Well, I am using Amsoil and the bottle does have the API Starburst Symbol(For Gasoline Engines, Energy Conserving) and it meets GM Spec 4718M. I take both my Truck(02 Suburban) and Car (02 Malibu) to the dealer to change the oil. I checked to see if using Synthetic oil would void the warranty and I was told that as long as the oil had the Starburst symbol and met the GM Spec 4718M that there would be no problem with the warranty. Also, I got 3MPG better mileage in the car and a 2MPG improvement in the truck. I thought like you about synthetic oil but after trying the Amsoil I have seen the light and I am a believer. I am also using Amsoil Gear oil in my F&R axles in my truck. I would recommend this oil to anyone. :D  :D  :D  :cheers:

 

 

 

I have not seen any evidence that supports the fuel mileage savings that synthetic sales literature claims. Additionally, any reputable technical references that I have read are either inconclusive or state that the reduction in friction is so small that it is not even quantifiable. With all of the money that the manufacturers spend to reduce fuel consumption, I’m sure if what you are saying, a 2 to 3 mpg saving, were true they would certainly spend the extra fifteen bucks it cost to fill the crankcase with synthetic oil.

 

The cold weather pumpabiliy is better in synthetic gear oils so you may see a slight fuel mileage advantage by running it in the differential in very cold weather. Hypoid gear oils, however, are much different than crankcase oils. For a number of reasons, they cannot use the same type of viscosity modifiers that crankcase oils use. I think that you can make a logical argument for using it in the differentials.

 

Not all Amsoil products are API certified but some are. If you are using one that is, you are using an oil that is appropriate for you vehicle. I have no argument that it will work as good as a conventionally refined API certified oil. What I am saying is that it won’t perform any better and it cost a bunch more.

 

Doug

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Well, I am using Amsoil and the bottle does have the API Starburst Symbol(For Gasoline Engines, Energy Conserving) and it meets GM Spec 4718M. I take both my Truck(02 Suburban) and Car (02 Malibu) to the dealer to change the oil. I checked to see if using Synthetic oil would void the warranty and I was told that as long as the oil had the Starburst symbol and met the GM Spec 4718M that there would be no problem with the warranty. Also, I got 3MPG better mileage in the car and a 2MPG improvement in the truck. I thought like you about synthetic oil but after trying the Amsoil I have seen the light and I am a believer. I am also using Amsoil Gear oil in my F&R axles in my truck. I would recommend this oil to anyone. :D  :D  :D  :D

 

 

 

I have not seen any evidence that supports the fuel mileage savings that synthetic sales literature claims. Additionally, any reputable technical references that I have read are either inconclusive or state that the reduction in friction is so small that it is not even quantifiable. With all of the money that the manufacturers spend to reduce fuel consumption, I’m sure if what you are saying, a 2 to 3 mpg saving, were true they would certainly spend the extra fifteen bucks it cost to fill the crankcase with synthetic oil.

 

The cold weather pumpabiliy is better in synthetic gear oils so you may see a slight fuel mileage advantage by running it in the differential in very cold weather. Hypoid gear oils, however, are much different than crankcase oils. For a number of reasons, they cannot use the same type of viscosity modifiers that crankcase oils use. I think that you can make a logical argument for using it in the differentials.

 

Not all Amsoil products are API certified but some are. If you are using one that is, you are using an oil that is appropriate for you vehicle. I have no argument that it will work as good as a conventionally refined API certified oil. What I am saying is that it won’t perform any better and it cost a bunch more.

 

Doug

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do agree that it does cost more but you change it half as much so it basically works out the same. And if you are under some misconception that the manufacturers would use synthetic oil to increase mileage then you certainly look at the world through rose colored glasses.They do just enough to meet the federal requirements and that is all. Just remember what the Big Three did to Preston Tucker. If and when they are forced to then they may use synthetics, but they are not going to increase their manufacturing costs unless they absolutely have to. I have no reason to lie about my MPG numbers. I am not a big believer in statistics and I especially don't believe that the manufacturers are looking out for the best interests of the consumer. I can quote you info that says and proves that synthetics work better than dino oil. I tried synthetic and it works, that's good enough for me. As far as I am concerned the manufacterurs are in bed with the oil companies and if they aren't forced by Government to make changes they won't. You can say what you like but from all the people I have spoken with that use Synthetic oil, they swear by it and after using it myself I will not go back to Dino, plus I am doing my part to lessen our dependence on foreign oil. Opinions and technical references are like A** Holes,"Everybody has one " and for every reference or book that you show me that says synthetics don't work I can show you a reference that says they do. You and I can go on arguing this subject forever and the way I see it is, You have your opinion and I have mine. Let's leave it at that. :cheers:

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Since when do you need to use synthetic oil to extend oil changes? This is more synthetic oil marketing words of wisdom. We and other commercial fleets have been doing it for years with conventionally refined oils. It is total nonsense that you need to use synthetic oil to extend change intervals. The problem with extended change intervals on light trucks and passenger cars is that it is not cost effective. The cost to monitor the oil for degradation exceeds the cost of the oil change.

 

You misunderstood my argument. I didn’t claim that synthetic engine oil would not work. It will work fine. There is just not any advantage to using it over a conventionally refined crankcase oil.

 

I'm not here to argue with you, I have done the lube oil analysis thing for years and have studied automotive lubrication extensively. I Got this one pretty much down. I am going to share what I know about it to give some balance here. If you don't like it, I'm sorry……

 

If you disagree with what I have to say, I am interested in your opinion and I am more than willing to defend my position.

 

Doug

 

By the way..... I'm having a little trouble understanding how driving around in a full-size Suburban with synthetic oil in the crankcase is doing much to reduce our dependency on foreign oil.

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Since when do you need to use synthetic oil to extend oil changes? This is more synthetic oil marketing words of wisdom. We and other commercial fleets have been doing it for years with conventionally refined oils. It is total nonsense that you need to use synthetic oil to extend change intervals. The problem with extended change intervals on light trucks and passenger cars is that it is not cost effective. The cost to monitor the oil for degradation exceeds the cost of the oil change.

 

You misunderstood my argument. I didn’t claim that synthetic engine oil would not work. It will work fine. There is just not any advantage to using it over a conventionally refined crankcase oil.

 

I'm not here to argue with you, I have done the lube oil analysis thing for years and have studied automotive lubrication extensively. I Got this one pretty much down. I am going to share what I know about it to give some balance here. If you don't like it, I'm sorry……

 

If you disagree with what I have to say, I am interested in your opinion and I am more than willing to defend my position.

 

Doug

 

By the way..... I'm having a little trouble understanding how driving around in a full-size Suburban with synthetic oil in the crankcase is doing much to reduce our dependency on foreign oil.

 

 

 

 

I think the argument there is that every little bit helps. Since the Syn is a manmade product not a dino product, by using the Syn we reduce dependance on dino just a little more. I use the Syn products in my rear and my engine, I have noticed a difference and I extend my oil changes out between 6-10k miles.

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I think the argument there is that every little bit helps.  Since the Syn is a manmade product not a dino product, by using the Syn we reduce dependance on dino just a little more.  I use the Syn products in my rear and my engine, I have noticed a difference and I extend my oil changes out between 6-10k miles.

 

 

 

You can’t be serious ……. I laughed out loud when I read that a guy using synthetic oil in a full size suburban was doing so to reduce our dependency on foreign oil. That’s funny, I don’t care who ya are. :D

 

This may be a bit of a surprise but your synthetic oil starts life as petroleum. PAO oils are manufactured from Ethylene. Ethylene is cracked from petroleum. So really, how does using synthetic oil help at all?

 

Besides the fuel mileage claims that can only be found outside of a laboratory, specifically, what advantage do you get from a synthetic? What causes you to change the oil at 6-10K miles?

 

Doug

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