Extended Life vs. The Green Stuff

[flick427]

About five months ago I had my radiator flushed (80k mi.)

I drive a 1996 GMC 1500 and it came with the Orange Dex-Cool. I was planning on staying with the Orange Extended life coolant and told the "technician" at a service shop I did not need Dex-Cool, but just to put in the equivalent. I was assuming he would put in the Dex-Cool approved orange extended life coolant.

Instead, he replaced it with the standard green coolant and explained to me that it would be fine in the truck but it would just have to be changed out more often. I figured he was probably right and paid for the job and left.

Five moths later (yesterday) I was tuning up my truck to get ready for a 2,500 trip loaded up and pulling a single motorcycle. When I went to check the radiator, I noticed a about a teaspoon of that brownish chocolate milk looking residue that I am told is a result of oil. I wasn't told of anything unusual by the technician who serviced the radiator at 80k, but my truck now has 100k miles.

My questions are:

-Should I get rid of the green junk and have it flushed and refilled with the Extended life fluid again?

-Is it normal for high milage (100k) trucks to have a very slight amount of that brown junk and how serious is it (do I need to check it out or service a possible head gasket before my 2,500 mile trip in one week).

Thanks!

[ken1mod]

First of all, you don't have a high mileage truck, that starts at 250k. No junk in radiator is ok.

 

ken

[snoman]

First of all, you don't have a high mileage truck, that starts at 250k.  No junk in radiator is ok.

 

ken

 

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Actaully it is not all mileage related as it is time and tempature cycle related too. I have had a lot of debates on this subject with others but the solution here is REALLY simple(so simple that most ignore it) Modern engine have a increasing content of disimular metals that come in contact with the coolant and water is VERY reactive with this (Galvanitc Reaction) GM came out with DexCool in a attempt to increase protection while still using only 50/50 to keep coolant cost down for the 100's of thouasnds of vehicle it produces every year. THe problem is is that it did not work out as planned and people blame Dexi when they have problems but it is not really the cause as it is the mixed engine metal contant reacting with water in coolant. How do you fix this??? Easy, just run a higher consentration of antifrreze (60/40 or 70/30) and it will greatl redcue galvanic reaction in cooling system and greatly extend coolant life. I have been doing it for 20 years now and I can show you cooling systems that are 16 years old and older that are still clean as new and even the overflow tank is stain free like new. You can do this or stay with 50/50 and worry about it and blame coolant. (Mazda reconnized this long ago as when they first sold rotory engines in 70's with high aluminum engine block content they shipped with 90% antifreeze and 10% water)

[flick427]

First of all, you don't have a high mileage truck, that starts at 250k.  No junk in radiator is ok.

 

ken

 

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Actaully it is not all mileage related as it is time and tempature cycle related too. I have had a lot of debates on this subject with others but the solution here is REALLY simple(so simple that most ignore it) Modern engine have a increasing content of disimular metals that come in contact with the coolant and water is VERY reactive with this (Galvanitc Reaction) GM came out with DexCool in a attempt to increase protection while still using only 50/50 to keep coolant cost down for the 100's of thouasnds of vehicle it produces every year. THe problem is is that it did not work out as planned and people blame Dexi when they have problems but it is not really the cause as it is the mixed engine metal contant reacting with water in coolant. How do you fix this??? Easy, just run a higher consentration of antifrreze (60/40 or 70/30) and it will greatl redcue galvanic reaction in cooling system and greatly extend coolant life. I have been doing it for 20 years now and I can show you cooling systems that are 16 years old and older that are still clean as new and even the overflow tank is stain free like new. You can do this or stay with 50/50 and worry about it and blame coolant. (Mazda reconnized this long ago as when they first sold rotory engines in 70's with high aluminum engine block content they shipped with 90% antifreeze and 10% water)

 

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Thanks, that is good to know...

 

I assume then it is safe to keep the green stuff and run a higher concentration of coolant/antifreeze (there is no need to flush and put the orange fluid back in afterwards)?...

 

I am more concerned with any of the strange brown goop...Sure, it was only a small amount (1tsp. in 15,000miles), but it has to be oil because that is the only thing that will go to the top of the radiator and accumulate near the cap.

Does anyone know if this is common for trucks with 100k mi or a reason for my concern???

Thanks!

[snoman]

Thanks, that is good to know...

 

I assume then it is safe to keep the green stuff and run a higher concentration of coolant/antifreeze (there is no need to flush and put the orange fluid back in afterwards)?...

 

I am more concerned with any of the strange brown goop...Sure, it was only a small amount (1tsp. in 15,000miles), but it has to be oil because that is the only thing that will go to the top of the radiator and accumulate near the cap.

Does anyone know if this is common for trucks with 100k mi or a reason for my concern???

Thanks!

 

 

Green is okay for your truck and on the oil goop, those engines are known for intake manifold gasket problems with age and it is not a good sign.

[flick427]

Green is okay for your truck and on the oil goop, those engines are known for intake manifold gasket problems with age and it is not a good sign.

 

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So the 1996 Vortec is problematic eh?

 

Well...if it is only minor now, would you think it safe going the 2,500 mile trip and replacing the headgasket upon my arrival at the end destination in about two weeks (June 25 perhaps?).

[MS3DALE]

The head gaskets were not the common problem,The intake gaskets are the common problem of antifreeze leaks on the 5.0-5.7 Vortec engines.

You'll be fine for a trip as long as its just the intake gasket and not the head gasket,and as long as its a minor leak and not "pouring-out"

If it is the head gasket I wouldn't make a trip at all,I'd get it fixed first.

 

And for what its worth...I would have been very P.O.'d and upset at the tech for putting in regular green coolant instead of the Dex-Cool and not even asking me.

The Dex-Cool has held up very well for GM over the 10 years they've been using it.

Except for some S-model 4.3-V6's (And we only saw a few here with problems) we've seen no issues here at our dealership with the Dex-Cool.

[snoman]

The head gaskets were not the common problem,The intake gaskets are the common problem of antifreeze leaks on the 5.0-5.7 Vortec engines.

You'll be fine for a trip as long as its just the intake gasket and not the head gasket,and as long as its a minor leak and not "pouring-out"

If it is the head gasket I wouldn't make a trip at all,I'd get it fixed first.

 

And for what its worth...I would have been very P.O.'d and upset at the tech for putting in regular green coolant instead of the Dex-Cool and not even asking me.

The Dex-Cool has held up very well for GM over the 10 years they've been using it.

Except for some S-model 4.3-V6's (And we only saw a few here with problems) we've seen no issues here at our dealership with the Dex-Cool.

 

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It depends on the leak. Also long as the oil is getting into coolant slowly and not the coolant getting into crankcase, you can nurse it for a while regardless of source. If it shows up in crankcase, you want to stop instantly and fix it because antifreeze can be very hard on engine bearings and other internal parts.

 

Alse Dexi like all antifreeze will perform better in a modern mixed metal cooling system at 60% and higher if you want the best long term protection and you plan to keep your vehicle for many years like I do otherwise 50/50 will work for a while but you you have yo atch it a lot so why bother whne there is a fix for it?

[C & A s Dad]

I have to chime in here. In the Auto Parts industry we get a lot of complaints about cooling system issues. Snoman is right on the money. We call it electrolysis. This comes from the coolant passing through iron, alum, rubber, plastic and other materials. I would stongly suggest Dex Cool if the veh came with Dex Cool. IMO, it is a great coolant and does not create the issues it gets blamed for. I have not heard of the hight concentration helping but it sounds reasonble to me.

 

I will tell you that there is a chemical from Lubeguard called Kool It that is designed to reduce your temps by 5 to 7 degrees but more importantly it helps fight electorlysis. Lubeguard has been a recognized leader in trans additives for years and is used in most trans shops. I trust their products and have Kool it in my vehicles. Check out their website for more info.

[snoman]

I will tell you that there is a chemical from Lubeguard called Kool It that is designed to reduce your temps by 5 to 7 degrees but more importantly it helps fight electorlysis. Lubeguard has been a recognized leader in trans additives for years and is used in most trans shops. I trust their products and have Kool it in my vehicles. Check out their website for more info.

 

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Koot It works by reducing the surface tension of water gas bubble that form when water contacts hot surfaces and this gas bubble layer retards heat transfer. Ethlene Glycol has a much lower surface tension and a higher biol point too (about 340 degrees in its pure state) so in higher consentrations you get a more effective heat transfer due to reduced gas barriers on hot surfaces.

[flick427]

It depends on the leak. Also long as the oil is getting into coolant slowly and not the coolant getting into crankcase, you can nurse it for a while regardless of source. If it shows up in crankcase, you want to stop instantly and fix it because antifreeze can be very hard on engine bearings and other internal parts.

 

Alse Dexi like all antifreeze will perform better in a modern mixed metal cooling system at 60% and higher if you want the best long term protection and you plan to keep your vehicle for many years like I do otherwise 50/50 will work for a while but you you have yo atch it a lot so why bother whne there is a fix for it?

 

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My next question would have been how to tell the difference easily. Unless I'm going blind, I didn't notice anything peculiar mixed in with the oil when I changed it. I know that it would sit on the bottom, but the last fluid to come out of the oil disposal pan was more of the usual junk from the engine (dirt) and didn't see any antifreeze.

Due to the green coolant and the slight goop, I'm going to have my radiator flushed most likely before I leave and have the orange fluid put back in and see if the more reputable technician notices anything suspicious in the old antifreeze.

 

My pessimistic side tells me the worst that can happen is I have to buy a new engine on the trip home and wait a few days...what's that like $5,000...OUCH!

Thanks everyone for the info so far!

[snoman]

My next question would have been how to tell the difference easily.  Unless I'm going blind, I didn't notice anything peculiar mixed in with the oil when I changed it.  I know that it would sit on the bottom, but the last fluid to come out of the oil disposal pan was more of the usual junk from the engine (dirt) and didn't see any antifreeze.

Due to the green coolant and the slight goop, I'm going to have my radiator flushed most likely before I leave and have the orange fluid put back in and see if the more reputable technician notices anything suspicious in the old antifreeze.

 

My pessimistic side tells me the worst that can happen is I have to buy a new engine on the trip home and wait a few days...what's that like $5,000...OUCH!

Thanks everyone for the info so far!

 

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When you have a bad coolant leak into crank case the obvious is a a high reading on the dip stick. Otherwise if the oil takes on a milky or foamy appearance it is because water or coolant is getting in the crankcase. As far as motors, there is always bone yard engine from a reputable boneyard for a lot less. (this is where I get motors if I need one)

[mmmikkke]

First of all, you don't have a high mileage truck, that starts at 250k.  No junk in radiator is ok.

 

ken

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

 

Actaully ...blaa blaa blaa...in contact with the coolant and water is VERY reactive with this (Galvanitc Reaction) GM came out with DexCool in a attempt to increase protection while still using only 50/50 to keep coolant cost down for the 100's of thouasnds of vehicle it produces every year. THe problem is is that it did not work out as planned and people blame Dexi when they have problems but it is not really the cause as it is the mixed engine metal contant reacting with water in coolant. How do you fix this??? Easy, just run a higher consentration of antifrreze (60/40 or 70/30) and it will greatl redcue galvanic reaction in cooling system and greatly extend coolant life. I have been doing it for 20 years now and I can show you cooling systems that are 16 years old and older that are still clean as new and even the overflow tank is stain free like new. You can do this or stay with 50/50 and worry about it and blame coolant. (Mazda reconnized this long ago as when they first sold rotory engines in 70's with high aluminum engine block content they shipped with 90% antifreeze and 10% water)

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

 

Thanks, that is good to know...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

Actually, that's not knowing, that's assuming.

 

"Knowing" requires consulting a reliable source on the subject, one that's not layering on a dose of cynicism about GM's greediness about whether to use 50% of 70% antifreeze:

 

Click here to hear from a reliable source on this topic.

 

Here's an excerpt:

 

Most vehicle manufacturers recommend using a 50/50 mixture of antifreeze and water in the cooling system for year-round driving. At this level of concentration, most antifreezes will provide freezing protection down to -34 degrees Fahrenheit and boilover protection up to 265 degrees depending on the pressure rating of the system (the higher the pressure rating, the greater the boilover protection).

 

Higher concentrations of antifreeze can be used to extend both the freezing and boilover protection. At a maximum concentration of 70 percent antifreeze and 30 percent water, most antifreeze will provide freezing protection down to -84 degrees and boilover protection to 276 degrees (at maximum pressure rating).

 

Under no circumstances should a higher concentration of antifreeze be used in the cooling system. Antifreeze does not carry heat quite as efficiently as water, so increasing the concentration of antifreeze beyond a maximum concentration of 70 percent can reduce the cooling capacity of the system and increase the danger of overheating. What's more, straight antifreeze will not provide as much freezing protection as a mixture of antifreeze and water. Straight antifreeze freezes at -8 degrees F!

From this reliable source we learn the truth: Using 90% antifreeze is not good, as the heat transfer ability of the coolant mixture is diminished. Read the linked article. It also clears up other misrepresentations made above in this thread, and it doesn't layer in any political commentary.

[snoman]

First of all, you don't have a high mileage truck, that starts at 250k.  No junk in radiator is ok.

 

ken

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

 

Actaully ...blaa blaa blaa...in contact with the coolant and water is VERY reactive with this (Galvanitc Reaction) GM came out with DexCool in a attempt to increase protection while still using only 50/50 to keep coolant cost down for the 100's of thouasnds of vehicle it produces every year. THe problem is is that it did not work out as planned and people blame Dexi when they have problems but it is not really the cause as it is the mixed engine metal contant reacting with water in coolant. How do you fix this??? Easy, just run a higher consentration of antifrreze (60/40 or 70/30) and it will greatl redcue galvanic reaction in cooling system and greatly extend coolant life. I have been doing it for 20 years now and I can show you cooling systems that are 16 years old and older that are still clean as new and even the overflow tank is stain free like new. You can do this or stay with 50/50 and worry about it and blame coolant. (Mazda reconnized this long ago as when they first sold rotory engines in 70's with high aluminum engine block content they shipped with 90% antifreeze and 10% water)

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

 

Thanks, that is good to know...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

Actually, that's not knowing, that's assuming.

 

"Knowing" requires consulting a reliable source on the subject, one that's not layering on a dose of cynicism about GM's greediness about whether to use 50% of 70% antifreeze:

 

Click here to hear from a reliable source on this topic.

 

Here's an excerpt:

 

Most vehicle manufacturers recommend using a 50/50 mixture of antifreeze and water in the cooling system for year-round driving. At this level of concentration, most antifreezes will provide freezing protection down to -34 degrees Fahrenheit and boilover protection up to 265 degrees depending on the pressure rating of the system (the higher the pressure rating, the greater the boilover protection).

 

Higher concentrations of antifreeze can be used to extend both the freezing and boilover protection. At a maximum concentration of 70 percent antifreeze and 30 percent water, most antifreeze will provide freezing protection down to -84 degrees and boilover protection to 276 degrees (at maximum pressure rating).

 

Under no circumstances should a higher concentration of antifreeze be used in the cooling system. Antifreeze does not carry heat quite as efficiently as water, so increasing the concentration of antifreeze beyond a maximum concentration of 70 percent can reduce the cooling capacity of the system and increase the danger of overheating. What's more, straight antifreeze will not provide as much freezing protection as a mixture of antifreeze and water. Straight antifreeze freezes at -8 degrees F!

From this reliable source we learn the truth: Using 90% antifreeze is not good, as the heat transfer ability of the coolant mixture is diminished. Read the linked article. It also clears up other misrepresentations made above in this thread, and it doesn't layer in any political commentary.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

 

 

Some reliable source. 50/50 is used to save money. You may think I am sinical about GM money profits well make no mistake, they watch bottom line very closely and they do not want you truck to last 10 or 15 years because they want to sell you a new one long before that. Anyone that ever says to never use more than 50/50 is indeed very UNrelible as a source. The extra protection aside that means that everone that lives in cold climates and runs 60/40 or 70/30 is hurting their vehicle if you believe this "relible" source. (when I lived in Montana for while, 50/50 would have left you sitting many days because minus 50 was not rare and minus 40 was common at times) Did your relibale source also mention the glycol is denser or heavry per gallon and can about twice as much heat is required per gallon to heat it as a like amount of pure water??? You need to find a more reliable source or hit the books yourself on the physics of this. I also see no mention of Propylene Glycol (marketed as non toxic antifreeze) It has its highest boiling point AND lowest freezing point in its 100% pure state (it is used in artic vehicles that are liquid cooled) You can keep your head in the sand and believe that 50/50 is best after all it is your car and if you want to shorten the lifespan of its cooling system , it is your right too.

[mmmikkke]

As IF the corrosion inhibitors could only be put into solution at some maximum concentration...where did that assumption come from?

 

You could buy your own corrosion inhibitors (and people do) to replenish the ones that have evaporated or were otherwise consumed as their antifreeze aged.

 

So you can get the equivalent of 70% antifreeze concentration, when it comes to corrosion inhibiting, by just adding more corrosion inhibitor. Why doesn't anybody do *that*? Because it's not needed. Running a 50% concentration of the out-of-the-bottle antifreeze is totally adequate.