Handgun buffs, check in

Torque Junkie · December 30, 2001

I'm shopping for my first handgun and will probably be purchasing in the next 2 or 3 months. I've been doing alot of research on the net, and have spent a couple hours in gun shops talking to the clerks/owners and feeling and holding the weapons. I've come to the conclusion that (at least for my first weapon) want something in a .40 caliber becuase I want something that is heaver than a .9mm, smaller than a .45 and NOT a revolver, which is less expensive than a .44 mag or .357 mag Desert Eagle, and the .40 fits the bill. My next handgun will be a .41 Magnum revolver - but that's later down the road.

So far, I'm really interested in the Glock model 22 .40S&W. Are there any owners of Glocks in here that can give me their own personal review of it - what you like and dislike about it? What about the recoil? (I'm 5'8"/135lbs and not very 'built'). What about your personal experiences with carryability.

I like everything I've been reading about the Glock (especially it's reliability and durability), except 1 thing - the fact that there's no mechanical safety except the trigger mechanism. If I were to get the Glock, I wouldn't carry it with "one-in-the-hole" becuase of that safety concern, and I figure I can hit the slide just about as quickly as I can flip a safety, or in a pinch situation where I need FAST response I can just count on 1 'dead' trigger pull before the rounds cycle thru. My biggest fear is me needing to draw it from the holster and hitting the trigger just right and shooting myself at point blank.

The primary purpose of the gun (other than me envoking my 2nd ammendment rights) is a fun-gun for target shooting, and also as a concealed carry weapon.

Thanks for any input!

-Mike

mblrds · December 30, 2001

Have you visited www.glocktalk.com or www.thefiringline.com ? Lotta great info can be found at those sites.

What a coincidence, I just happen to have in my possession a Glock22. Great gun! The felt recoil wasn't anything I was expecting, it was less. Easy to maintain; field strip and clean.

It not having any external safety really isn't anything to be concerned about. As you probably know, the Glock does in fact has three internal safeties; a trigger safety, a firing pin safety and a safety function of the trigger mechanism housing. In other words, the only way the gun is going to fire is when the trigger is depressed. The trigger action is a little different than you would find on a 1911 type autoloader and takes a little getting use to but no biggie.It being a standard sized Glock, for some it's a little too big for conceal carry. Not impossible though. You may want to check out the Glock23. It's just a little bit smaller.

Have you considered going to a gunshop/range and rent one for a test ride? Many shops and ranges rents guns out for this purpose.

I really like mine.

If you have any other questions ...

Greg · December 31, 2001

If possible, go to a range that rents pistols and try a few out. Net research won't make up for how a gun feels in your hand and how accurate you are with it. One advantage of 9 mm is the lower cost of ammo so you can practice a lot - something especially important if you are going to get a concealed carry permit.

I don't care for how Glocks feel in my hand. I prefer Sig and Beretta. I suggest considering the Sig 239 - available in 9 mm, .40, and .357 sig. (The .40 and .357 sig versions have interchangeable barrels, with aftermarket 9 mm also available.) I have one in 9 mm and I love it.

A couple sites to check out:

www.mcrgo.org for concealed carry info

www.sigforum.com for Sig info

Shoot safe.

- Greg

MCRGO Member

NRA Member

Frank S · December 31, 2001

Good call Greg.

I was about to buy a Glock .40 caliber but I got to shoot one before hand and then I shot a P239 Sig Sauer.I bought the Sig because,to me,it just felt better.

Everyone is going to have their own opinions about gun preferances,just like with brands of trucks,so do like Greg said and find a place where you can shoot a few different guns.Make your decision on how it not only fits your hands but how well you hanlde it when firing.

You may also want to check out a Baby Eagle (made by Desert Eagle) because they make it in a .40 also.A good friend of mine who also happens to be a member of this board (ZR2Chevy22) has one in 9mm and it's a very nice gun that shoots great.

Import Hater · December 31, 2001

I was actually just thinking of getting a pistol also. A guy at work says Glock is the greatest. Super reliable. I was thinking about getting a Glock 17. But I've always liked the way a Beretta looks. Seen enough of them in movies... The SIG Sauer line and the HK USP Expert have also caught my eye.

Rob

mblrds · December 31, 2001

The main thing is to try before you buy. Not all guns fit your hand the same. Ask around, surely some of your buddies have handguns of their own and may not know you're in the market for one.

I'm hoping to be able to eventually get myself a Kimber Pro Carry. I really like the way these babies feel in my hand. :love:

CMNTMXR81 · December 31, 2001

Well, I own a Glock 23 which is a medium frame .40 cal pistol. It combines most of the speed of a 9mm and most of the punch of a .45.

I also have an HK USP .40 cal. It is a large frame pistol in comparison to the G23. The G22 is a large frame .40 so that's a more even comparison.

However, both have their plusses and minuses.

For the G23,

Positives = Lightweight, light trigger pull, easily aimable asn well as an excellent target practice gun.

Negatives = due to it being a medium frame pistol, I have a tendency to forget where my right thumb is when I'm aiming and then when I pull the trigger, the slide comes back and slices my thumb open. I do this at least once each time I go shoot it. Another negative is their safeties. At least to me anyway. I like to be able to manually shift it into safety instead of an "auto-safety" like the Glock.

Shooting between the Glock and the HK brings about different tendencies. Like I previously stated, the Glock, is easily aimable, light triggered and and all around smooth shooter. It doesn't give a lot of kickback even for a .40 cal and I'd reckon that compensated versions such as the G22C and G23C are even smoother. When I shoot it, I can pretty much aim it straight and when I pull the trigger, it still fires straight (I'll explain this more when I get to the HK).

All in all, a very well built piece, extremely reliable (an independant shooter put it through a 10,000 round firing test in all conditions from the Artic circle, to the Equator as well as fresh from underwater and it never failed. It is also easy to dissassemble for cleaning and any modification.

Now to compare it to the HK. The HK is more of a gun that needs to be manhandled. I don't mean that with any disrespect to the HK nor am I making the Glock sound like a wimp gun. What it amounts to is that the HK is a bigger and heavier piece and as such needs to be handled tougher.

The HK has a normal switchable safety (meaning I can turn it on or off whenever "I" please). Due to it having a heavier barrel, it is a little more subdued when fired compared to the Glock. With the HK, I mentioned before with the Glock, I can aim straight, pull the trigger and fire straight and I said I'd get to this later, here is waht I mean. With the HK, when I pull the trigger, I tend to pull the pistol just a hair to the left. Therefore, when I'm initially aiming, I must factor this in by overcompensating to the right.

Two negatives to the HK are that it is a little more complicated to dissassemble and clean as well as clearing the chamber when a jam occurs. First you must trigger the safety, which pulls up a plate internally, at which time drops the firing pin into the plate. From there you can pull the slide back and clear the chamber, With the Glock, due to it's internal safety, you can just pull the slide back and drop the unused round out.

Sorry for rambling, but since I have one, I figured I'd give you some first hand experience.

Here is how I use both;

For traget practice, primarily I use the Glock. Generally I use 130-150 grain WinClean Winchester rounds as it burns sooo much cleaner therefore eliminating jams. I still run a few rounds through the HK to make sure I'm a marksman with it.

For home protection however, I switch. I have the HK ready (as well as my S&W .44 Mag) running Federal 165grain Hydra-shok's. With the Glock as a backup running the same.

DigUout · December 31, 2001

I bought a Glock off a buddy a few years ago, more to help him with cash than because I wanted/needed it. After shooting my Dad's Sig since I was a kid, I really didn't enjoy the Glock which surprised me after all that I'd heard and read about them. Like Frank said, the Sig just felt better.

I sold the Glock to a guy who was ga-ga over them and bought a .38/.357 revolver. It shoots both calibres. After growing up, shooting dad's .44 , I have a real soft spot for revolvers. Plus I can target shoot with .38 rounds and keep .357 rounds ready for home protection.

I have my eye on a new Mossberg Shotgun, with a Parkerized finish, for my next gun purchase. I'll take a 6 shot because I'm not sure my shoulder can handle 9!

gmonkey · December 31, 2001

Two negatives to the HK are that it is a little more complicated to dissassemble and clean as well as clearing the chamber when a jam occurs. First you must trigger the safety, which pulls up a plate internally, at which time drops the firing pin into the plate. From there you can pull the slide back and clear the chamber, With the Glock, due to it's internal safety, you can just pull the slide back and drop the unused round out.

CMNTMXR81,

How many stoppages have you encountered with the HK? I have not had any but I would think it would be really rare with a gun like the USP. I have the same in a 40 and I have yet to have a jam.

Where did you find the procedure for clearing the jam? I never read that anywhere in the manual..

I owned a Glock 21 full size in 45ACP but I didn't like it because the magazine didn't drop free.

Also, my next handgun will be the SIGPRO in 40 cal. Sweet gun.

raventai · December 31, 2001

"5'8"/135lbs and not very 'built'"

I am 5'11" 200+#'s (yea I am on the heavy side) but small hands mayby similar to yours, and all the double stack guns just do not fit perfectly

I have a kinber custom 1911 45 and love it. not realy c' cary gun but nither is a glock, it is verry accurate verry good feel with or without a aftermarket grip and excellent trigger feel very little travel very crisp I love it. only thing I do not like about it and this aplies to most 1911's is that it will not feed truncated cone cartriges reliably, it was desighned by Jhon Moses Browning with ball ammo in mind, hydroshocks will not feed well, I now use winchester silvertips witch have good expansion and energy but a roundish nose to fit the feed ramp have not had a miss feed yet with these

I also have a box of black talons (aka cop killers) for home defence sience they are no longer legaly made I have not tried them but they seam to have a similar nose to the silver tips and should feed fine http://www.kimberamerica.com/Custom_Custom_Target.htm

my friend has a sig that is verry nice sorry do not know the model # but it is the 40 cal/357 sig and it is a clean shooting gun that I realy like to shot it in iether cartrige, I think the main pourpos for that model was a wait and see if 357 sig was going to take off, if not u stilll had a 40 cal barrel. 357 sig is an excellent round with excellent ballistics and has been taken up by many police forces and citizens it is here to stay, only thing I do not like about 357 sig is the huge muzzle flash, it is a hot round and powder is still burning after leaving the barrel

he also has a compensated 45acp glock (rare) wile it is reliable the fit for me is not good, the trigger seams realy odd it has a lot of travel and u never know when it is going to drop the fireing pin, mushy trigger (no hammer on a glock) there are alot of stamped parts that look flemsy but they have a good service record so I guess they are strong where they need to be

I realy like the 2 flames it shoots out the top but that may be a problem in a situation where night blindness could be a problem

look at a 1911 before u buy they are infinitly custonizable verry comfortable and reliable if feed the right diet

only thing I carry is a north american arms 22 mag revolver http://www.naaminis.com/ yes next to useless but almost undetectable and light/small to carry anywhere

get a consealed carry permit if your state allows, in GA it was only $35 and worth evry penny to keep out of jail and on the right side of the law

see http://www.nra.org/frame.c....rl=http for laws in your state

recoil taste is veery odd another friend of mine loves his 44 mag red halk he is a verry small fellow and has no problems the dam thng wants to crawl half way out of my hand when I shoot it :sneek: I think this has to do with the smooth grip that is far away from the trigger realy puts your hand in a streach,

well anyway try a bunch of stuff for fit and shoot as much of it as possible before perchace

Torque Junkie · December 31, 2001

Thanks a bunch for all of the input, guys! I appreciate it. After all that said, I still think the Glock is a good, reliable gun, BUT, there's better ones out there that I didn't know about or had never heard of. I like the Sig 229 quite a bit now, but it might be a little pricey for my budget - but a gun is an investment and I should get the best that can be. I like the styling of the Glock, and how indestructable and reliable they are, but there's safety issue that worrys me. Yeah, it's a good safety, but it's automatic, and when it comes to that I want FULL MANUAL control over the safety.

I fully intend to have my Concealed Weapons permit taken care this week, but if not this week, very soon. Long before i buy the gun. In Montana, if I possess a CWP, I can walk in, show the permit, and walk out with a gun, and I want to be able to do that. I would also like to be able to carry my 6" Criss Blade Butterfly knife with me as well. One good thing abuot Montana though, is I don't need the permit to carry the weapon concealed in my vehicle, or outside city limits, so basicly all I need the permit for is to carry it within any city or town limit in Montana. The permit is $50 for 5 years.

Another gun I've found that I like the looks of is the Steyr M40.

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=2773515

This one is for sale about 70 miles from me too....

Thanks for all the information, guys. I now know there's better .40's than just the Glock. I'm definately set on a .40 caliber.

As I get closer to purchasing I will definatley have to find someone to go shooting with or go to the range and rent or something. You guys have definately convinced me to go out and try before I buy, and I will not buy until I've tried the 3 top guns that I've narrowed my choices down to.

G35 · December 31, 2001

My comments...

I have a Glock 19 and a Glock 35. The 19 is a 9mm and the 35 is a .40. I personally like the .40 better then the 9mm.

The Glock has 3 safeties. The visible one on the trigger and 2 internal. It's really simple, if you don't want the gun to go off KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER! and use a holster that covers the trigger guard and you will have no problems. The Glock is a very safe gun.

I also have a H&K USP compact .40 and I much prefer the Glock to the H&K. The H&K is heaver and harder to take apart. The H&K sits higher in my hand and recoil is more noticable. The Glock sits lower in your hand and is easier to control. I also have small hands.

Get the Glock you wont regret it. The Glock 22 or the smaller 23 would be my choices.

Also as said above check out http://glocktalk.com

the guys there will answer any questions you have.

Good Luck.

mblrds · December 31, 2001

If a handgun not having any external safety is uncomfortable for you and causes concern, you'll probably do better buying something other than a Glock, especially since this is your first handgun.

Later on, after you have gotten comfortable with having a handgun, you'll probably feel more confident with having and using Glock.

Cause, I gotta tell you, your gonna wanna anudder one!

Torque Junkie · December 31, 2001

I've been surfing gun sites all day here at work with all the info youv'e given me and this is what I've come up with:

I've narrowed it down to 4 guns to take when I go to test fire some guns to decide which ones I want.

- Glock 22

- Glock 27 or 23 (either of the small-frame Glock .40's)

- Sig P229

- H&K USP Compact .40 S&W

I really like the stainless look on the P229 and the H&K

Those are the 4 I'm deciding between now, and I want to shoot a few rounds thru each one to get a feel for which one feels the best, and I will make my choice from there.

Thanks for all your help, guys. I've learned ALOT in the last couple days

-Mike

CMNTMXR81 · January 1, 2002

Two negatives to the HK are that it is a little more complicated to dissassemble and clean as well as clearing the chamber when a jam occurs. First you must trigger the safety, which pulls up a plate internally, at which time drops the firing pin into the plate. From there you can pull the slide back and clear the chamber, With the Glock, due to it's internal safety, you can just pull the slide back and drop the unused round out.

CMNTMXR81,

How many stoppages have you encountered with the HK? I have not had any but I would think it would be really rare with a gun like the USP. I have the same in a 40 and I have yet to have a jam.

Where did you find the procedure for clearing the jam? I never read that anywhere in the manual..

I owned a Glock 21 full size in 45ACP but I didn't like it because the magazine didn't drop free.

Also, my next handgun will be the SIGPRO in 40 cal. Sweet gun.

It was right after I bought the gun and put it through it's "break in" run of about 200 rounds. I'd get a jam of roughly once each clipload.

My friend who's a gun freak pointed that clearing procedure out to me when I had my first jam in the lanes.

What I've done since then to help eliminate this problem is heavily oil the feed ramp before I fire it.

My suggestion to you Torque, is to go to a range, grab a couple of the .40's you're looking at possibly buying and fire them there before you plunk at least $500 down on a pistol.

Keep in mind, everyone is different and as such you are getting the answers you are above. Some don't like Glock, some like myself do. It comes down to what fits in your hand and fires the best for YOU.

To add more food for thought, I also take a look at what the professionals use. For instance, the U.S. Government uses HK's and many states like the Illinois State Police exclusively use Glock's. I remember when Illinois went through the testing before they chose Glock. It was simply the most durable and easy to use pistol out there for their needs. Whereas, the city of Chicago won't let you use Glock's, they prefer Sig.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.