Big Block or Small... That is the question.

bigjeepinyj · February 11, 2003

This is my first post on this message board! I have learned alot of things in the last few days from reading here...

My truck was totaled about a month ago and I have been searching for a truck since then. At first I was sold on the powerstrokes, but I just cant get away from my chevy.

Now with that said. After an exhausting search and thinking, I dont think that I can justify getting a diesel at this time. SO....

I will be pulling a 25ft. single wheel tandam axle gooseneck with my 3500lb. Wrangler on it about 10-15 times a year. I will be hauling it from southern, IN to South Eastern, TN and sometime up into northern, IN.

Will the 6.0 be enough? The gas milage doesnt bother me on either model there isnt that much of a difference (ok, 5-6MPG) No matter which I buy I will have to pay for the fuel to move it.... I dont want to get underpowered but I can find a 6.0 alot easier than a 8.1 (I would like a Ext or Crew Cab 2001 Single rear wheel).

I read the 8.1 vs. dura post.......

Be easy on me!

Shaners · February 11, 2003

It looks like you'll be towing in the 6k - 7k lbs? I'm guessing the trailer is at least 2500 lbs.

Certainly the big block would be the choice motor when towing, but that load is far within the range of the 6.0L.

I tow a 8k+ lb 32' travel trailer with my truck. I think I have more problem with the wind resistance than the weight of the load. My trailer is about 1 foot higher than most because it has a slide-out. The truck will tow all day long (easily) at 70 mph on the flat. If I let it, it will even shift into OD and will continue to pull fine.

I have not found a hill here in Western PA on the Interstate that I can't pull at least 60 MPH in Third gear. If I force it to drop into 2nd gear it will accelerate past 70 MPH easily (turning some RPM's though). When towing my trailer around here I get between 8-9 MPG's (I wish I had a bigger fuel tank).

The 4L80E tranny behind my 6.0L has been great and has performed very well both empty and laden. Even when towing a heavy load it normally runs cooler than the engine by about 10 degrees.

My truck is stock except for a drop-in K&N and +1 size tires.

Personally I think the 6.0L would be up to the task, and would deliver better fuel milage when you aren't towing. However the 8.1L/Ally is a great combo too...

(BTW I saw a 2002 GMC crewcab 8.1L/Ally Leather etc... (used but certified) in the Pgh paper today at a dealer for $29,995.)

CMNTMXR81 · February 11, 2003

I Agree with Shaners. The 6.0 will do the job and when you aren't pulling will net you better mileage.

However, the 8.1 is only an $800 premium and automatically upgrades you to the Allison (providing you go with LS or LT trim with the split buckets and center console) which will add about another $1,200. So I'd say it comes down to whether or not you can afford the extra $2k in powertrain upgrades. You also wanting extended or crew cab simply adds even more weight which would swing it even more in favor of the bigger motor. You also didn't mention whether you wanted 2 or 4 wheel drive.

BDBWTIE on here has a 6.0L that he works hard, so he'd be a good person to ask too.

With the BBC, I don't have to worry about working the trans and downshifting as much as Shaners has mentioned. All I do is dip the throttle down a little more and let the torque of the 496'er take control. And the grade braking feature on the Allison is also real nice.

4x4man · February 11, 2003

I would go with the 8.1L/Alli..for the extra 2 grand it is a very powerful setup bar none. When I had my 8.1L/Alli it pulled my 10k 5er very well, never had a problem with shift business or anything like that. When it came to a hill it couldn't climb in 5th, most of the time it would downshift to 4th and grunt right up it. Some people have stated that they don't like to hear the big block run at 4-5,000rpms when pulling on a hill. I never had that problem. On a 7% grade I pulled last year (Monarch Pass) it pulled me down to 3rd gear, but just stayed at 3200rpms and never downshifted anymore, I was floored and was able to maintain speed and climbed the pass. The only time I got it to 4-5,000 rpm's was when I was in a hurry to get up to speed on the on ramp to some of our highways. Sometimes the onramps are rather short and you needed to get up to speed quick!! But I don't think that counts....

Anyway, I would go with over kill if I were you. I have no experience towing with the 6.0L so I can't compare the two..hope my experience helps!

Bob

bigjeepinyj · February 11, 2003

Thanks alot for the help guys! I like what I am hearing about the 6.0.... Although after driving a Dura I have really like the allison. How many of the 6.0 came with 4.10 gears I think that would be a big towing advantage also.

Keep the comment coming I hope that BDBWTIE responds if not I will try to PM him...

Any other Die Hard 6.0 guys out there...

EDIT: Also I am looking at the 4x4

Hullie · February 12, 2003

If you're worried about the extra premium of the Ally trans w/ the big block, just get an 8.1/6-spd. Awesome combo and if you get it at invoice, the big block will only cost you about $700 over the 6.0.

I can't comment on towing as I haven't done any towing yet, but as a commuter, it's been great so far.

Brett

Shaners · February 12, 2003

How many of the 6.0 came with 4.10 gears I think that would be a big towing advantage also.

The 4.10 gear is the only one available with the 6.0L. It is a great combo with the 6.0L, and the truck has amazing power when empty with that rear gear.

I have never had to lay my foot on the floor in my truck while towing. I normally merge onto highways at 1/2 to 2/3 throttle depending on the ramp... (maybe 3/4 throttle if needed).

I don't know the exact numbers, but I bet the HP numbers of the 6.0L are very close to a 454 TBI, and the torque numbers are within 50 ft lbs. Does anyone know the correct data for a 1995 TBI 454 cu in for comparison?

Hullie · February 12, 2003

Just to clarify, the 8.1 w/ 6-spd combo is also the 4.10 grears. I believe the 6-spd got 4.10 gears on both engines (8.1 and d-max) and 3.73 w/ the ally trans.

Not sure which transmissions got what gears when paired with the 6.0.

Brett

Stepside Z · February 12, 2003

The 8.1/Ally combo is alot of power for the money. If I remember correctly the unloaded MPG is very close between the 6.0 w/4/10 and the 8.1 w/3.73. If I was going to buy a gasser it would be a 8.1/Ally.

JimWilson · February 12, 2003

The 6 liter/4.10 combo has proven to be a pretty stout towing platform and it should be able to handle what you want to tow (I'd guess your Wrangler and trailer combo are going to be about 5K). Empty, the 8.1/3.73 combo gets about the same MPG's, and probably does a little better towing, so that shouldn't be ruled out either. And even though the 4l80 is a nice tranny the Allison is even better.

Bottom line? You can tow what you want with any of the combos, so you should feel safe choosing whichever you can afford.

alpha42 · February 12, 2003

Hope this helps. I have an 02 2500HD 6.0 4x4 ex-cab and I tow a 5000-5500 lb 27 foot travel trailer plus 5 people (2 adults and 3 kids) and loads of camping gear and beer. I can tell you the 6.0 handles this very well and is not at its limit for sure. You will feel loads in this weight range and above on any set up. Certainly the diesel will feel it less but oh the initail cost! The big block is real swwet to have but right now at 1.70 a gal I don't know.

jelisfc · February 12, 2003

First to clarify the Dmax only comes with 3.73's. My Dmax/6spd has them. Only the 8.1 can get 4.10's.

I'm estimating it's a 500 mile round trip. Taking 10 trips a year is 5000 miles. I agree with Shaners pushing the wind is more of an issue than the weight. My sled trailer is 102" wide and high. Considering what you are pulling and the yearly mileage the 8.1 would be my choice.

bigjeepinyj · February 12, 2003

Again thanks to everyone...

I was wondering about the milage of the 8.1 with the 3.73. I was thinking that would even the milage out a little if you have the 6.0 with the 4.10.

What do some of you guys give new for your truck off the lot? (if I may ask). If you would list some of the options that you got with it. Thanks again!

Hullie · February 12, 2003

Sure..here's mine. It was ordered btw.

'03 2500HD LS Crew-cab 8.1/6-spd/4.10, fogs, roof markers, trailer package, dual auto climate, am/fm/cd (non-bose), 6-way power driver's seat, 40/20/40 seat, wheel upgrade, tire upgrade, black on charcoal, deep tinted glass, off-road skid plates...I think that's it.

I paid 32,089 (invoice) - $2000 rebate + $1600 for extended warrantee.

Brett

Shaners · February 12, 2003

My friend has an Avalanche with the 8.1L and 3.73 gears. He gets better fuel milage when towing (1-1.5 MPG), but his trailer is quite a bit smaller and about 1500 lbs lighter.

Unloaded my 6.0L/4.10 gears gets 2-2.5 MPG's better than his Avalanche does unloaded.

The Avalanche has the same tranny as mine but maybe slightly beefier. The Ally Tranny in the HD trucks is much more beefier than the 4L80E, and it does use some extra power to turn it...