Five /Six speed manual tranny owners

[LongBiker]

Hi guys,

 

Looking to trade and I was wondering what the real world thoughts are on the manual trannys.

 

I am a gear head by nature so changing gears comes naturally. However, in this area of the country no dealers stock the manuals so I can test drive one.

 

So I am asking for some input from you guys who have one. Is the shift pattern slow, long and sloppy? Is the clutch mildly or wildly stiff?

 

Pros and cons... would you buy one again?

 

Thanks

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Long Live The Long Bikes

[manytranny]

Love mine. Kinda a bitch to drive in stop and go for prolonged periods, but I dot do that too much.

 

Shifts are not bad at all. Not too terrible long throws. Clutch is pretty light and easy to use too.

 

Glad I dont have to fight with tranny maintenance either. Not to mention the proce.

 

I had to go 1300 miles to get mine...(SD area to Denver area...)

[LongBiker]

Thanks for the reply. Any idea how your mileage compares to the Ally?

[BrentR]

No regrets here. Clutch is not stiff at all. Shifts are longer than most passenger cars, but not bad considering it's a big pickup.

[Colorado Kid]

The ZF 6 speed shifts very nicely. The throws are shorter than the NV3500 5 speed in my '91. Clutch effort is just barely higher, very resonable. The only tricky shift is from 1st (granny) to 2nd.

 

I don't know if you know what the shift pattern is. Evens are forward and odds are back. The shifter is springloaded to rest in nuetral beween 4th and 5th. Push against the springs to the right and up for 6th. Pull (but not too hard) against the springs and 2nd is up and 3rd is down. Pull harder, through a spring loaded gate and reverse is up and 1st is down. So a quick shift from 1st to 2nd requires up, right, back to the left (but not too far) and up again. Try it 5 times fast and you'll get 2nd once, 4th 3 times and reverse once. The good news is you don't need to start in 1st very often.

 

It seems that those of us with 6 speeds report just slightly better MPG than those with Allisons, don't expect more than 1 MPG better though.

 

The best part of buying the 6 speed was the $2400 lower MSRP. I had to order mine, but I would have orderred it even if I wanted the Allison. I did have a chance to drive the tranny once (behind an 8.1L) before I orderred . . . strangely enough the place I drove it was exactly the same place manytranny bought his truck. When they heard I was interseted in a manual transmission they really wanted me to buy that 8.1 6-speed . . . offerred to throw in a B&W Turnover Ball hitch and 5th Wheel Companion, brake controller, spray-on liner etc., all for about invoice +200$, but it was a CC LB and I don't have a big enough place to park it!

 

Would I buy it again? Wouldn't have it any other way.

 

If you're anywhere near me you can come by and take it for a ride . . . at least 3 more D/Zs have been sold because of mine.

[Engineer]

I can't really add anything to what has already been said. Just add my thoughts.

 

I definately would buy another truck with the ZF S6-650. Many, many benefits to this transmission over the Allison.

1-Less heat build-up when trailering in hot weather.(a serious factor for me)

2-No gear hunting or screaming RPMs when pulling in the hills.

3-Better fuel mileage. I get about 1mpg better than the 8.1/Allison guys I've talked to

4-Wouldn't even wan't to consider the cost of rebuilding the Allison when they get a couple of hundred thousand miles on them.

5-$2400 off the price of my truck.

6-No tow/haul switch to quit working. Just smooth grade braking day or night, Loaded or empty.

 

I ordered my truck. I could have bought many a truck before I bought mine. There just weren't any to be had with the ZF. Unless I get some form of physical problem that won't let me clutch or shift, I'll always order the manual trans. I cut my teeth on a 13 speed RoadRanger

 

On balance though, I did have trouble with my trucks hydraulic clutch. It seems to have been a freak of nature. Nobody I talked to has had the same problem, nor has it happened to me since the one occasion.

[regcab02HD]

Hey Engineer, what kind of gas mileage do you get? I'm just trying to see what's the difference between the 8.1 and 6.0.

 

 

P.S. That's one sweet truck!

[Engineer]

No B.S. here- I got low 15s once. That was all interstate, 75mph, no load, no A/C, but a slight headwind.

 

I usually average 13.2 to 14.1, it all depends on how much I let the truck sit and idle. Worst I ever got was 11.something, but this was last winter when I did a lot of town driving, and let the rig idle alot. Idling a gasser sucks that gas, it's not like letting a diesel idle.

 

Towing mileage (realistically) is in the mid 9s. I can get as high as 10.something towing my 11,000lb gooseneck. That is, if I am not trying to race a powerjoke or Cummins. The dealer gave me a full tank of gas when the truck was new, and that tank averaged 13.2, imagine the smile I had realizing that it was only going to get better when the truck was broken in.

[LongBiker]

Thanks again for more replies guys.

 

One more question... With the 6 sp you don't get any kind of console. Right?

 

Are they bucket seats only w/o a console or can you get the split bench?

 

Thanks

 

 

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Long Live the Long Bikes

[manytranny]

No sir! You get the center console, but less the cassette player space. The stick fits very nicely into the space. Even get the cupholder space.

 

The tranny is great. Nice to be in control of everything... I love the ability to coast!

 

I got 21 mpg on my maiden voyage from Colorado to California. Even with the occasional romp on the go pedal. I couldnt believe the guts it has stock. I had the Predator for a while, but have had some problems with it. Been driving stock for a few weeks now, and thinking that the predator isnt all that great...Babbling over...

[wolfhound]

Hi all:

I've been reading the chatter on the trans. and thats great. But what kind of final drive are you coupling to these rigs.

I have a 89 Silverado, 454cid (injected) 3500 duelly with a 3 spd auto and a shift kit. The drive line has a gear vendors over/under drive @ 1.3:1 over going into a 4:10 final.

The truck is bumper to bumper rebuilt and has 189 k showing. Engine and trans probably has 15k on it.

I'm pulling 6200lbs of 4 horse trailer plus 4k lbs of horses plus water and tack for a total of about 11K on a beefed up bumper pull hitch rig.

The run from Phoenix to Flagstaff AZ. changes in altitude from 1000Ft in PHX to 7000Ft in Flag. with plenty of long 6% pulls. The truck probably gets 6 mpg up the hill and 12 mpg down the hill. I just figure 10 mpg.

I'm impressed with the truck because it has endured these gruling runs in the 100 + degrees AZ. heat for about 6 years now ( with normal maintainance) but it crests these hills in second gear at 35 mph with the engine screaming. It just seems like the engine is running beyond it's torque range. Any Thoughts?

[jelisfc]

Correction first. The '02's could get the console. 03/04 have a one piece console that goes to the dash so no more console. Split bench only, no leather in 03.

 

I'm very happy with mine and second all the previous posts. Even stop and go isn't bad. It takes some miles before it really loosens up. If you don't use granny low it will never loosen. I finally spent some time using it just to break it in. I can almost power shift 1-2 now. I saw one 6spd in a 4500 but didn't drive it. The first pickup I saw was mine and I've only seen two others. Nothing wrong with being in the minority. Even if the clutch/flywheel goes out after warranty I can fix that...probably cost less than the upgrade to the Alli. I wanted a stick and bench seat and the cost to upgrade to an Alli was just the final reason to go ZF. No regrets what so ever.

[jelisfc]

wolfhound, mileage seems about par if not above average. Not sure about the rebuild. Sounds like a cam might help but you are pulling a lot of weight. The TBI isn't doing you any favors. What rpm does it rev to? At 35 mph in 2nd the engine shouldn't be screaming. The converter iwon't be locked so the rpm's will be higher. Are you sure you aren't in first?

 

It sounds like you have a solid truck other than it's slow on the hills. For all the effort and dollars to add power enough to run a higher gear I'd just run it.

[manytranny]

One thing I should mention that I was reminded of today...

 

My truck has a pretty good driveshaft wobble from 0-13 or so in second gear. I would say that it is pretty noticeable.

 

I had to get a few loads of topsoil today for a little landscaping. I rented a trailer, and loaded it down with 3 yards of dirt. The load was poorly distributed. Maybe the loader wanted me to have an easy job, because he loaded it mostly in the back of the trailer. Left me with at least -300 lbs tongue weight. I guessed the load to be right around 5000 lbs.

 

I would start in first gear, and there was a little wobble, but not too bad. Im not in that gear long anyway. Then when I hit second, and get on it, I get a big wobble and shake. It will stick around until about 2500 rpm, or 13 mph. Im not really punching it either. I was accelerating gently. I had 5k lbs behind me with no brakes, so I was not on it...

 

This is something that has been with the truck since new. Happens when unloaded, and gradually goes away with increased payload. (I assume because of changing driveline angles and what not)

 

It is quite troubling. Cant be good for things. At the end of this trip, I have to climb a 1/4 mile HILL that is in excess of 25% grade. Its a steep sucker. I was in second gear at 2800 rpm, near WOT, and 20 pounds of boost for most of it. No wobble at that speed, but accelerating up to it, it was pretty bad. So bad that the rears on the truck began to spin. Almost had to stop and go to 4 lo.

 

Anyway, this has turned into a long post. Any thoughts? Ill post is as a topic in a min...

[WhiteStallion]

I love mine. Wouldn't want an auto matic. I had to order my truck cause out here in Cali no one wants a manual with the traffic. But love the control. Shifts easy. Only regret I have was not getting the 8.1 with the 6 speed.