Bilstein

[etex211]

I know there are a lot of Bilstein fans here, so I'll try to not step on any toes...

 

My truck is a 2007 Silverado Classic 1500 Crew Cab.  I bought the truck used in 2010, and it's been a great truck.  About 4 years ago, I decided to replace the factory original shocks on the truck.  After doing a lot of reading, including posts on this site, I bought a set of Bilstein 4600 series shocks for the truck.  I haven't been happy with the ride comfort ever since that day.  The truck has felt like it has no suspension whatsoever in the rear.  The issue was especially noticeable on going over all the joints on a concrete interstate highway.  I experimented around with different air pressures in the rear tires, and I even tried running a small amount of air in my air bags, which I normally keep empty when not pulling  a trailer.  Nothing made the ride acceptable to me.

 

Finally, a couple of weeks ago, I put the original shocks back on the rear.  It rode much better than it did on the Bilsteins.

 

I wanted the Bilsteins to work.  I raced dirt cars for 28 years, and the best shocks I ever had on any of my cars were Bilstein's S9Z series shocks.  I also ran shocks from Afco and Pro over the years, and the Bilsteins were superior to those.

 

I have no doubt that if I was driving my truck off-road, the Bilsteins would probably be the absolute best shocks I could buy.  However, I don't drive my truck that way.  It runs around town and up and down the highway, and I occasionally use it to pull my 20 foot car hauler.  I'm getting old, and a nice smooth ride is important to me.  The Bilsteins just didn't give me what I wanted.  I guess I'll also add that I've got a set of 4600 series Bilsteins on my '96 model crew cab dually, and I am happy with them there.  I know that truck is never going to give a smooth ride no matter what shocks I put on it.

 

I'm going to buy another set of shocks for my truck.  I've been doing a lot of reading again, and I know that I won't buy any more monotube shocks.  I'll definitely put twin tube shocks on it.  I've looked at "stock replacement" shocks that advertise OEM ride quality from all the customary brands like Monroe, KYB, and some others that I've never even heard of.  Right now, I am leaning toward the AC Delco "Professional" line of shocks, which I assume are probably made by Tenneco, and probably virtually identical to Monroes.

 

I guess I really don't have a question here, but if anybody wants to offer any comments, I'd love to read them.

[Sharpz]

I am sorry your bilstein experience wasnt up to par.  I went with the 5100's on my Z71 and was kicking myself for not doing it sooner.  That being said, you have to find what is good for you.  For me I found my truck improved in keeping my tires to the road in almost any condition, which made for better cornering, stopping and take offs.  I also noticed that I didnt have as many hydroplaning issues in wet weather.  Can I ask if you set the shocks before you installed them? It just seems very odd that it felt like you had no suspension at all, and that is most always the case with worn shocks.

[etex211]

It felt like the opposite of worn shocks.  It felt like the shocks weren't allowing the springs to do their jobs.  It felt like the shocks were a couple of swedge tubes that had the chassis locked into position.  The tires would just bounce along the highway because there was no give in the suspension.

[Sharpz]

2 hours ago, etex211 said:

It felt like the opposite of worn shocks.  It felt like the shocks weren't allowing the springs to do their jobs.  It felt like the shocks were a couple of swedge tubes that had the chassis locked into position.  The tires would just bounce along the highway because there was no give in the suspension.

yeah that is odd for sure.  

[etex211]

Update:

 

After driving the truck for a couple of weeks, I was still unsatisfied with the ride quality.  I started playing around with air pressure in the rear tires and weight in the back of the truck...

 

I now have the Bilsteins back on the rear of the truck.  I am carrying 180 pounds of dead weight in the back of the truck, and I have the rear tires a couple of pounds below the pressure prescribed on the door jamb.  I am now satisfied with the ride quality.

 

The Bilsteins are good shocks.

[Supreme Pizza]

6 hours ago, etex211 said:

Update:

 

After driving the truck for a couple of weeks, I was still unsatisfied with the ride quality.  I started playing around with air pressure in the rear tires and weight in the back of the truck...

 

I now have the Bilsteins back on the rear of the truck.  I am carrying 180 pounds of dead weight in the back of the truck, and I have the rear tires a couple of pounds below the pressure prescribed on the door jamb.  I am now satisfied with the ride quality.

 

The Bilsteins are good shocks.

 

 

Yep, tire pressure and extra weight, that what I would try. Sounds like it worked for you. Sometimes its hard to get the tires and shocks to work together as a suspension system, but once you get it dialed in - your good to go. I think a lot of people underestimate how important the tires are in the suspension. They find out quickly when they get those big 24" wheels, with super thin rubber band tires wrapped around them. 8 ply heavy duty tires make for a rough ride too. You probably already know all of this, but some readers don't.

[etex211]

A number of years ago, Nascar teams started measuring the spring rates of tires, and used that in their weekly setup prep for races.  It was another way to gain an advantage, and of course, it drove up expenses....

 

Nascar banned the practice.

[Supreme Pizza]

10 hours ago, etex211 said:

A number of years ago, Nascar teams started measuring the spring rates of tires, and used that in their weekly setup prep for races.  It was another way to gain an advantage, and of course, it drove up expenses....

 

Nascar banned the practice.

 

 

I can see how measuring the performance of the tires would be useful, but how would Nascar ban the practice?

 

Speaking of Nascar, I bought a used oil cooler at auction. It came from the Richard Petty Nascar race team. I installed it on my ATV. It did not make my ATV as fast as a Nascar though...

[Grumpy Bear]

A truck with a 2K pound payload capacity is sprung and shocks valved for 2K pounds of payload. Without the load it is both over sprung and over dampened and usually highly digressive. Add some E rated tires or aggressive A/T's on big rims????? Rides like an empty dump truck. 

 

It's a method OEM's use because it uses the fewest cheap parts and 'right' for the maximum load when carried to keep backsides out of jail. 

 

I bought new springs (leaves) from Deaver that were 15% lighter, have 11 leaves and hung them in Sulastic hangers and control them with King Piggy Backs gas shocks. Something similar up front. Does it ride like a Caddy? Nope but my dental work stays put, my arthritic back is happy and the tires stay on the ground in the wash board sections. Could not be happier. That said...could have done it cheaper looking in the rearview mirror. Could have used the lightest 2007 factory spring or even run mono leaf removing the second and overload from the set it came with, Sulastic and FOX remote N2. Both of the shocks mentioned are LINEAR valving. HUGE difference in 'hit'. 

 

What about loosing the load capacity? Two words. AIR BAGS. 

 

 

[etex211]

11 hours ago, Supreme Pizza said:

 

 

I can see how measuring the performance of the tires would be useful, but how would Nascar ban the practice?

 

Speaking of Nascar, I bought a used oil cooler at auction. It came from the Richard Petty Nascar race team. I installed it on my ATV. It did not make my ATV as fast as a Nascar though...

Since the tires are issued to the teams when they arrive at the track each week, the teams were measuring the spring rates of the tires at the track.  That made it easy for Nascar to police it.

 

Nascar bans practices and changes rules all the time to cut expenses for the teams, to protect teams from themselves.  A perfect example was the with the impact guns used to change tires on pit stops.  Some of the teams were spending a fortune on R&D to develop faster guns that could shave fractions of seconds from their pit stops.  Nascar stepped in a couple of years ago with spec pit guns, and started issuing them to the teams each week.  Then some teams started using helium to drive the guns faster than they were designed to operate, and the guns started failing.  Nascar stepped in again and ordered the teams to use only nitrogen to drive the spec guns.

[Grumpy Bear]

23 minutes ago, etex211 said:

  Then some teams started using helium to drive the guns faster than they were designed to operate, and the guns started failing.  Nascar stepped in again and ordered the teams to use only nitrogen to drive the spec guns.

 

I raced in under some sanctions whose rules were pretty much, "If we didn't tell you that you could...you can't". They even went so far as to say that only the inspectors inspection tools were valid and only by the methods and skills that particular inspector was capable of. HIS gauge only, calibrated to HIS traceable standard. Of course there was variance from track to track so you had to learn how far OFF the edge you could build and be competitive. Guess who won all disagreements?

 

What a way to run a Rodeo. Oh, I knew what they were doing. Trying to avoid the NASCAR Dutch boy fairy tail  type rule modification. It was off the rails before the ink was dry. 

 

Best outfit I raced under was NHRA. But even that pig doesn't fly straight. Big money teams do not like little guys winning and will protest you into bankruptcy. 

 

[etex211]

3 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

I raced in under some sanctions whose rules were pretty much, "If we didn't tell you that you could...you can't". They even went so far as to say that only the inspectors inspection tools were valid and only by the methods and skills that particular inspector was capable of. HIS gauge only, calibrated to HIS traceable standard. Of course there was variance from track to track so you had to learn how far OFF the edge you could build and be competitive. Guess who won all disagreements?

 

What a way to run a Rodeo. Oh, I knew what they were doing. Trying to avoid the NASCAR Dutch boy fairy tail  type rule modification. It was off the rails before the ink was dry. 

 

Best outfit I raced under was NHRA. But even that pig doesn't fly straight. Big money teams do not like little guys winning and will protest you into bankruptcy. 

 

I raced dirt cars for 28 years.  Most local dirt tracks did their own thing, and rules enforcement was always spotty.

 

I did race a number of years under a sanctioning body (IMCA) that used the rulebook as a way to make money.  If a parts manufacturer did a sponsorship deal with them, they would spec parts from that manufacturer.  The parts suppliers and the sanctioning body were all making money on the backs of the racers.

 

ETA:  IMCA has spec'd things like heads, intakes, carburetors, a-frames, transmissions, rear ends, and even crate engines.

Edited December 22, 2021 by etex211

[Grumpy Bear]

2 hours ago, etex211 said:

I raced dirt cars for 28 years.  Most local dirt tracks did their own thing, and rules enforcement was always spotty.

 

I did race a number of years under a sanctioning body (IMCA) that used the rulebook as a way to make money.  If a parts manufacturer did a sponsorship deal with them, they would spec parts from that manufacturer.  The parts suppliers and the sanctioning body were all making money on the backs of the racers.

 

ETA:  IMCA has spec'd things like heads, intakes, carburetors, a-frames, transmissions, rear ends, and even crate engines.

 

Oh yea. Know that rule. LOL. How about when the parts manufacture has that deal, has it's own "factory backed" team and the team gets first pick of stock! Don't they call that hunting in a baited field? 

 

We use to do things like order 32 rods. Hand select the best 8 after inspection and pay the restocking fees. Which makes things fair and above board and your still doing your part to find the best. Except if the stock has been picked over by the factory teams before delivered to stock.  They would go over a thousand rods and keep the top 10%. (Stock and Super Stock classes were worst of the bunch). And they all did it.

 

A factory backed team could buy a "Body in White" at 20% of floor cost. Private teams paid up full and had to strip a car to 'White'. IF you had a friend with a backing MAYBE you could buy the car on the floor at cost with a wink and a nod.