Jump to content

Water/Alcohol Injection for a Supercharged Engine?


Recommended Posts

Posted

Folks:

 

Does anyone here have any experience with water and/or alcohol injection in a supercharged engine? Specifically, a Magnacharger Radix or other Eaton Roots blower.

 

Any info will be appreciated!

 

Regards,

 

Durkin :D:jester::lol::D

Posted

I have an SMC Kit on my whipple charged 5.3 engine running pure methonal. Since I dont have an intercooler it was the only way to turn up the boost. I am currently running 8psi boost & it runs great & the smc kit performs like a champ. Since you have an intercooler I wouldn't think that you would need water or alky injection unless you really start turning up the boost. If you did want to add alky injection I believe with the way your supercharger is mounted the only place you can mount the nozzle for the water/alky kit is in the plastic tube that feeds you throttle body.

Posted

I am running a water/meth system on my Whipple 5.3 and still tunning it.I have found at low boost(under 7 psi) it quenches combustion and you bog out.I use irridum plugs and no help. Just went to Vigilante 2800 stall and 46 lb marine injectors and ripped out the Whipple FMU system,then back to the meth tuning.BTW I'm running 4:10's.

Posted

I have a Radix running 6-7 lbs on my Silverado SS. Added the SMC alcohol system to see if I could cool the air coming in. Did not make any difference in performance. I suspect the boost needs to go up a lot before it will help any.

Posted

I don't mean to whore or try to start an argument, but why would you have methanol AND water injectors? I know alcohol burns, but it dilutes w/ water, and the amper the air, less combustion, right?

It might be different w/ this application, I'm just thinking because of w/ the Sprint Car and all, we run methanol and it dilutes w/ water and can collect moisture, so yeah...

Posted
I don't mean to whore or try to start an argument, but why would you have methanol AND water injectors? I know alcohol burns, but it dilutes w/ water, and the amper the air, less combustion, right?

It might be different w/ this application, I'm just thinking because of w/ the Sprint Car and all, we run methanol and it dilutes w/ water and can collect moisture, so yeah...

The byproduct of boost is heat which increases the chances of detonation. Water/alchy/meth injection systems are used to cool the inlet temputures to allow for more boost and more timing.

 

True water vapor takes up space in the incoming air which in turn allows less room for fuel and air. However, the cooling effect for the water/alchy far over compensates by the amount of extra boost that can be run with it.

 

I.E. quarter mile perfomance built a turbo charged Formula Firebird. With the stock motor 9psi was about the limit on 93 octain (was intercooled). After they put alchy/water injection on it they safely ran up to 15psi.

Posted

Thanks for the reply Speedy-you explained it as goos as I would. :eek: And you are right DCairns-you need more boost for this to work. :chevy: I'm Just looking adding more boost without the pricey race fuel cost .The GN guys have been doing this for years.Toulene is too expensive so Meth is the answer-Too much meth and BOOM,thats also the reason for the water.Best way to describe it is like NOS but no so explosive!

Posted

At it again, eh Durkin ?? :D:dupe: And this from a guy who doesn't want me to ditch my FM70's for something wilder :bs: j/k. BTW how is your tranny holding up? IIRC you haven't done any mods to it, true?

 

Peace and Coolness,

 

GMC_DUDE :lol:

Posted

GMC_Dude:

 

How is your truck runnin?

 

I put 4:56 gears and an Eaton Posi in last weekend and found out that my research was weak, because you have to have a special little electronic thingy to correct the signals from the speed sensor with a tire and wheel change as they affect the ABS system. It cannot be done by programming the computer. So here is thea link to the thingy: Truspeed

 

Any which, this $180 thinghy just arrived; hopefully my new Wester's PCM will get here tomorrow. So then we will see how it runs after all that gets squared away.

 

Decided to add the water/alchohol injection as a safety featture. That is I am not gonna raise the boost (heheeh) just use this in lieu of/or in addition to racing fuel.

This is what I ordered: Boost Cooler

 

Will let ya know how it works!

 

As for the transmission, it is just fine; guess I have about 6,000 supercharged miles on it.

 

Regards,

 

Durkin :D:lol::bs::dupe:

 

PS: Just tryin to stay a few steps ahead of the competition!!

Posted

Well, my truck is in the body shop getting un-dinged from an encounter with a blown-over tree (see my post in the bash/rant section). :flag: So now I have time to think about my next mods. My wish list so far is:

 

Freer flowing muffler (got some good ideas from some other posts).

 

Transmission cooler (I like the new one from B&M with the fan on it).

 

Replace the stock bare-bones AM-FM radio with something I can play my CD's on.

 

Start thinking about what to do with the interior. The solid grey is depressing.:lol: I'm thinking some seat covers and dash trim for starters.

 

I may get a custom after-market steering wheel. Family has been nagging at me to ditch the air bag, as I am short (5'6") and have to have the seat so far forward that the steering wheel is almost literally in my face. They are concerned that an airbag trigger may kill me. :D

 

But of course as always $$$$$ is an issue, so I will have to prioritize. Can have it all, just not all at once. :dupe:

 

more pax, less tax

 

GMC_DUDE :bs:

Posted

Hey Durkin,

If I may...

 

First-

You can program the tire change-ratio change corrections(I am running 4:10 and Tall Dubs)No abs issues at all.

 

Second-

I am also using the Boost Cooler Stage 2 with controller set up-but you will get a sag at 5-6 psi boost range.(I did)

You would want to boost more and that is the reason for this -to quit detonation at the higher compression stages.

If you stay low boost psi,you will have a disappointing result.

If so use the 175 nozzel and iridum plugs.

 

Just trying to save you some time as I have been there.

 

Let me know if I can help

Frank

Posted

Folks:

 

Just got the retuned PCM and Lyndon says he could not fix the ABS problem at the PCM. If he cannot do it, I doubt it can be done.

 

Tomorow we install the Wester's and I will check it. If the problem persists, we install the Truspeed.

 

In any event, I will let you know how it turns out.

 

Regards,

 

Durkin :D:lol::bs::dupe:

Posted

O1TahoeSS:

 

 

You were right!! Got the new Wester's tuned PCM and installed it; seems to work just fine. Guess what so far after about 50 miles of driving--no ABS problem.

 

Now I have a Truspeed about to go up for sale on Ebay!!

 

Got this from Matt Snow after I asked about the Stage 2 and a bunch of other stuff he sells, " For your application, I recommend a stage-1 with a bulkhead for the reservoir and a 375ml/min nozzle. There would be no advantage with the stage-2 and the variable controller because full boost is attained so fast with the roots. The nozzle goes before the throttle body.

Thanks,

Matt

 

Still waitng for that kit; I appreciate your input and will let you knowhoe it works!

 

Regards,

 

Durkin :D:lol::bs::dupe:

  • 3 weeks later...
Posted

Folks:

 

Contacted Matt Snow from Snow Performance in Denver and sent this:

 

I have a Magnacharger Radix Supercharged 2003 Tahoe Z71. Runs great but all we have is 91 octane gas in CA and 100 Octane racing fuel at $5 a gallon is hard to find. Do you have a water injection setup for this vehicle? Where does the reservoir/tank go on this vehicle? What sort of water mileage do you get under normal conditions?

 

He replied:

 

You will easily be able to use the 91 octane with this kit along with full timing. I recommend the stage-1 kit ($299). Most use the stock windshield washer reservoir as the tank since it is over 4-qts and has a level sensor- we can put a quick-connect bulkhead in the kit for you ($9.95) to use with our tubing. Assuming 8 psi boost, you will see approximately 40 quarter mile full throttle blasts from 4 quarts.

 

I bought it.

 

We installed it (pictures to follow). But the really professional installation took about five hours -- some of which was straightening out the wires and tubing in the pillar pod, figuring out where to mount the pump, vacuum/boost sensor, nozzle, led, master switch, etc.

 

Set it to start spraying at about 4.7 PSI with full boost at 6 PSI and it worked like a champ. Zero pinging all the way to 5,600 shift points on 91 octane. Now if I put a smaller pulley on it and get 70 more horses…the mid 13’s is in sight….but so is some transmission beefing up….where will it end?

 

Here is an interesting article: More Info on a Boost Cooler Installation!!

 

So, I guess we are off to the drags next Saturday!

 

Regards,

 

Durkin :chevy::thumbs::D:chevy:

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Forum Statistics

    250.3k
    Total Topics
    2.7m
    Total Posts
  • Member Statistics

    342,726
    Total Members
    8,960
    Most Online
    Ragg-Boy
    Newest Member
    Ragg-Boy
    Joined
  • Who's Online   6 Members, 0 Anonymous, 965 Guests (See full list)

  • Latest Articles

  • Posts

    • I had skimmed through that article when you posted the link and honestly I felt rather defeated in a sense and realized that all these years in changing oil that in fact putting in what I was told was a good quality oil was probably not filtered as well as it should be although the filter put on the engine would be what ( as long as it never went into bypass mode ) would be the final filtering of the new oil that the engine components would first see, but then the filtering media itself is not up to par to what is ideal because a full flow filter would be too restrictive to filter fine enough for the engines best outcome in the long run. Only one of our tractors over the years which was a Versatile with a 855 Cummins had a separate bypass filter, some engine manufacturers did spec a partial bypass system within the main oil filter but I don't believe any other trucks or equipment I was servicing used such a filter. No doubt a product like the Amsoil bypass system is of benefit as long as nothing goes sideways with the extra plumbing and filter such as a rupture/leak that could cause the oil to pump out of the engine ( yes that Versatile had a remote canister with hoses routed to it as well ). With the idiot egr system on a diesel and as a result forcing a lot more soot into the oil, that certainly isn't helping the diesel engines cause or as you pointed out the GDI engine issue with creating more soot and aside from having a fancy secondary filtering system, changing the oil more often helping lower the total soot load.     So oil manufacturing and the end product is not something one can control and I wonder if there are specs on what various oil packaging companies produce in particle count or size. As to the filtering, if the OEM is not designing a filter size and spec that is really what it could be, they too are short changing the end user and so what is the answer. Of course as you say the oil side can only do so much if the air side isn't keeping up its end of the picture and air filters are only so efficient and if in a dusty environment such as farm or construction or driving gravel roads there is a lot of dirt to filter out and some of that ends up into the air stream.    Of course the irony in places like where I am where they dump the salt on the highways but also will mix in some calcium or outright pure calcium for problem road area's, or using calcium as dust control on gravel roads, the vehicle that gets used in that environment may rust out before a properly engineered engine and maintenance finally wears out so one has to face that reality in the rust belt. 
    • Has anyone run these on their 2500?
    • have you stuck with dealer oil changes since then? I made the same switch after getting tired of crawling around under the truck, but I’ve found some dealers are way better than others about getting you in quickly. Curious if yours has been good about scheduling or if you’ve had to look elsewhere for quicker turnaround.
    • Thank you.   I am set on a 3.0 Duramax as my previous truck with a Ford Ecoboost had just as many, if not more, "common" issues.  Cam phasers, timing chain issues, 10-speed valve body and CDF drum, emissions issues, etc.  So I figured, why not get 2x the fuel mileage (these things got 27+mpg on every mixed city/highway test drive I put them through) and better towing capability with resale value to boot?   My minimum, shortest trip will be 50 miles 1-way and I regularly go out of state with a travel trailer.  I'm planning on using this for a marketing/event promotion business also, which would require regular towing of trailers for bands, DJs, sound and lighting gear, along with my personal camera gear for filming events.   Looked at other trucks in the $30k+ price range but the issues seem to be everywhere, plus too many with gaudy mods.  I'm literally sticking with RWD trucks because they tend to be actually used as trucks, vs. the 4x4 models I've seen with unsafe lifts, huge tires, and general mods that would affect reliability (I'm wondering if some of them were tuned, hence the aggressive throttle response and hard shifting).   So my goal is to find a stock, 3.0 with 1 or 2 owners, in good physical condition, and decently well maintained.  Can't seem to find that up here, everything in the $27-30k range has had multiple owners, smoke smell, issues, or body damage.  Or the ridiculously modified trucks with 80k miles for under $27k but lots of problems...
    • That’s pretty tough Grumpy. I reread the previous few posts. They all reference oil changes. Much like your last thread. In my humble opinion it keeps things interesting.
  • GM-Trucks.com Clubs

  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...