ZR2 for Canyon and Colorado?

Ol' hook in the eye Pete · August 21, 2004

After being around some messageboards lately, I see I'm part of large group of S10 owners who feel rather "left out" with the killing of the ZR2 package.

I rumors of a possible return of this setup and also hear otherwise.

You know, could someone from GM product development just speak up and say something? Anything!

1. "Yes, we are planning a more comprehensive offroad package for the future, possibly after initial sales slow down. It will include a minor suspension lift, tires...etc. So save your pennies!"

2. "We are unsure at the moment. It all depends on a number of factors...maybe for the future.

3. "No, we are content building trucks that are inferiorly equipped for offroad duties. We are quite happy offering the Z71 package for pussies that want to pretend that they are rough and tough. As well we are content loosing sales to Toyota and Nissan in this area."

Again, some clarification from someone at GM?

P.S.: No offense to existing Z71 Colorado owners, if its all you need then good on ya'

Cool Zr2 · August 21, 2004

Let it go man.

The Zr2 package is exclusive to an s-10, due to the diference on frame work and such. The Z71 package is just some shocks and a gov lock, so they call it a Z71, becasue the Zr2 name dosen't belong on a truck that gets stickers and shocks. The Zr2 Package has been retired, its not that big a deal that the colorado dosen't get a zr2 package.

As far as I'm concerned, the Zr2 package only belongs on an S-10, not a colorado so the name can be drug it out just because.

Buy a zr2 blazer, they are still in production.

Tracker is a different story, purely a marketing angle there.

Ol' hook in the eye Pete · August 21, 2004

Sorry, I happen to think it is a big deal that there is no ZR2 for the Colorado....God, when the day comes to replace my truck I'm gonna have to buy tires (plus a real spare), fab some skid plates...maybe a lift... WOW, wouldn't it be great if I could buy one from the factory with all of that stuff?

What are the frame differences between the two?

I can't get a blazer, I need the bed...

Cool Zr2 · August 21, 2004

Sorry, I happen to think it is a big deal that there is no ZR2 for the Colorado....God, when the day comes to replace my truck I'm gonna have to buy tires (plus a real spare), fab some skid plates...maybe a lift... WOW, wouldn't it be great if I could buy one from the factory with all of that stuff?

What are the frame differences between the two?

I can't get a blazer, I need the bed...

What do you mean a "real" spare?

Do you understand the costs to build all of the things needed for a truck like the s-10 zr2? lets use the s-10 zr2 for an example.

Different frame needed

Stamps needed to punch holes in fenders for flares

Jigs needed to weld supports on the fenders for flares

A arms, suspension systems, etc

It wouls cost Gm a ton of money to basically redesign the Colorado for a good offroad package. Many still wonder why Gm did this in the first place for the s-10, due to the costs.

As far as Gm is concerned, most of the people in the market looking for a midsize truck are looking for economy. 97% of the people looking for a midsize don't want a offroad truck, so GM dosen't see the need to make one. If you want a midsize off road truck you need to build one.

From a business perspective, would you sacrifice say... 20% of your profits on this line of trucks to make a off road truck to please 3% of your market, would you do it? No you wouldn't. Its commerce, people are in it for money, not every single persons personal feelings.

rascal · August 21, 2004

s 10 zr2 frames were couple inches wider. besides larger tires, shocks, and a lift, they bump the hp up 10 or so.

SnakeEyeSS · August 22, 2004

well, then, would you guys say that the S-10/Blazer Zr2 is the best off-road vehicle GM has made? It's seems to be better designed for it than any of the Z71's, ever.

Frank S · August 22, 2004

I wouldn't say best but definitely up there,at least in comparisson with the IFS trucks they've put out.

The main flaw with the ZR2 is that,while the frame is slightly different and more rigid than a standard S10 and you do get the 8.5" 10 bolt like the full size half ton trucks,you are also stuck with the 7.25" front differential and incredibly weak front end components.

If they had payed as much attention to the front as they did the rear it would be almsot as bullet proof as an IFS 4x4 can get.

Ol' hook in the eye Pete · August 22, 2004

Cool ZR2 point very well taken...however you pointed out something very obvious by your last post GM is still ruled by "beancounter's".

First off, I think more than 3 percent of the colorado's buyer market would be interested in a ZR2 package. If you want "Fido to bark the numbers" I'm sure you could pull out some fancy stat.'s from somewhere, but from the feedback I've gotten, around half of the people that have bought Z71 would be have been interested in a ZR2. However I could be wrong.

Another point you were very right about was profit on such vehicles...the manufacturer does take a hit, but what do they they gain in return? Image, Image, Image!

Such "niche" vehicle's do a lot to turn heads and attract attention to the company and a model lineup. Why do you think GM is making the SSR? Big money? From my understanding this is a limited build...on any givin day they probably sell more Cavilers then they will SSR's during the entire SSR production run.

How about the Thunderbird? The SRT-10?....

Now how about a niche vehicle that will attract attention, make a profit (abeit a lower one)...and make a lot of very loyal S-10 fans happy...Win, Win and Win anybody?

GM is still ruled by the beancounter's...I thought that this had changed with Lutz at the helm, who's been trying in vain to shake this image.

Once you alienate a segment of previously loyal customers, you do a brand image damage through several means: their lost sales, their negative word of mouth and lastly by helping to put more of the competitions product out on the streets...which may even generate positive word of mouth about that product and draw in other buyers...etc. etc. etc.

Crawl underneath and look at the size of spare they give you for almost 40 grand (Can.) on a full load Z71...and you'll see what I mean...don't get me started about skidplates...

I could do without the added ground clearence...but If GM offered a ZR2 with full skids front to rear, BFG AT's and maybe a couple other goodies I would be satisfied and probably driving one right now...

Yes I know its gone, I just wish the aftermarket would hurry up with Colorado stuff...

Ol' hook in the eye Pete · August 22, 2004

One last thing...Why if there is no market for such packages in mid-size pickup's with offroad suspensions does Toyota offer the TRD? Nissan the X-terra and frontier Off-Road?

Showing up to the dance late and without a date again GM

Cool Zr2 · August 22, 2004

One last thing...Why if there is no market for such packages in mid-size pickup's with offroad suspensions does Toyota offer the TRD? Nissan the X-terra and frontier Off-Road?

Showing up to the dance late and without a date again GM

Who said there wasn't a market for an offroad truck?

Gm's focus is not a midsize with a zr2 package. Are you understanding that the only major things common between a s-10 and a s-10 zr2 are the cab and the hood and tailgate, fenders, driveline and everything ense is specific to that offroad package, it is expensive and Gm probable didn't think the Zr2 era wasn't worth its weight so they turned their eyes to better and more profitable items.

And seriousley, do you think people will stop buying Gm products bacause the zr2 is discontinued? Get a grip, Everything comes and goes, the camaro is gone, and rumor has it that the vette will have a 6 year run on the new body style and be discontuned. Everything gets its turn and gets put to rest.

I think its a great idea that its gone, now the people that have them can appreciate them more and for some they might be worth some money and could have fun with modifications to make them unique.

Ol' hook in the eye Pete · August 23, 2004

Whoa, buddy...relax...That 5.7 have an exhaust leak? I'm pickin' up way too much hostility here...

I fully understand that it was an entirely different truck. I'm not asking for a new frame.....god...

I could do without the added ground clearence...but If GM offered a ZR2 with full skids front to rear, BFG AT's and maybe a couple other goodies I would be satisfied and probably driving one right now...

now I'm just repeating myself...

In terms of marketshare, does anyone think its wise to drop marketshare in a market about to come fiercely competitive...New Frontier, Tacoma, Dakota...

People aren't gonna stop buyin' GM's because they killed some favorite models....but when they don't REPLACE them with anything, they sure are going to lose sales.

This is probably all for nothing...I had a thought today that I may have to applogize to those beancounters. The GMT 355 platform is going to be used for upcoming H3. To develop that suspension package for one vehicle is kinda odd eh?....hmmmm, catch my drift?

Well, I could be wrong and just clinging to a dream... Sure is a nice dream though!

Cool Zr2 · August 23, 2004

Whoa, buddy...relax...That 5.7 have an exhaust leak? I'm pickin' up way too much hostility here...

I fully understand that it was an entirely different truck. I'm not asking for a new frame.....god...

Well you are gonna need one with the way that front diff hangs below the frame.

The colorado was NOT built for any type of offroading, it was built to be a small truck that is efficient and to be part of that interchangable motor parts system (4-5-6).

If you take a second to look at the design of those trucks you will see that even with a lift they still would not be a very impressive off road truck.

Back to the skid plates, you complained about those trucks not having them. Did you know that those junk plates on your truck are nothing more than splash guards, they have no real strength. I had a set I got for 30 bucks (bought them because they were black, wanted to try them out) and I slid on a log and they ripped off. So even if the colorado had skids they wouldn't protect the front diff for crap.

Syd · August 24, 2004

Colorado/Canyon could be a very impressive offroad vehicle, only limited by the IFS in the front. The trucks were an out-and-out upgrade on the S-10 line, so if the S-10 could do it the Colorado can do it better.

The entry/exit angles are fairly solid and the rigidity of the vehicle is light years beyond 90% of the vehicles on the road today. Just throw a lift on it, better tires, and better skidplates and it will turn circles around previous ZR2s. However, the market isn't there for a ZR2 or similar offroad minded package to be anything but an overpriced option nowadays. Cheaper to do it yourself I'd imagine.

Cool Zr2 · August 24, 2004

Just throw a lift on it, better tires, and better skidplates and it will turn circles around previous ZR2s. However, the market isn't there for a ZR2 or similar offroad minded package to be anything but an overpriced option nowadays. Cheaper to do it yourself I'd imagine.

Exactly

95whtZR2 · August 27, 2004

Hey cool just out of curiosity, the skids you had were plastic right? Because I have ran my aluminum ones on some stuff and they aren't damaged at all. Maybe I am just not hitting the log right j/k man.