A small dilemma....

[tehMidget]

I am in the market for a newer truck that will take over daily driver duties for my 1994 Jeep Wrangler. The Wrangler will become a trail rig/weekend toy, with the new truck getting most of the daily driver duties. I will be towing this Jeep on a tandem trailer 5-10 times per year anywhere from 6-13 hours at a time. But the rest of the time I will be driving it 60 miles/day in mixed interstate city commute.

 

My question...

 

I really want a Cummins or Duramax. Will they hold up to this kind of DD in a good bit of stop and go? I have heard diesels are not the best for this kind of DD use, I really don’t want the MPG of a 6.0 or 8.2 and a gas Dodge is out of the question. What are your opinions?

[496 CUBIC INCHES]

Short trips aren't the best for any engine,gas or diesel. If you were driving 2 miles to work and back then maybe I'd be concerned. If you're driving 60 miles a day,the diesel will have plenty of time to get hot.

 

The D-max or the Cummins would be a toss up for me. I like the Dodge and the Chevy. I might lean towards the Cummins,because Dodge seems to realize there really is a market for the 6 speed tranny. GM trucks with the 6 speed are near impossible to find around me.

[silverado3500]

I had an easier time finding a Ford 6 speed (same tranny that GM uses in their HDs). This is why I have a f350 vs the Dodge 3500. I prefer the cummins over the powerstroke, but the overall build quality of the Ford seems to be better than the dodge. I went the Ford route after not being able to get a Chevrolet 3500 duramax 6speed in the crew cab ls. GM needs to figure out that some of us prefer haveing a standard transmission for towing. Yes I know the allison is a good transmission, but I still prefer the 6 speed.

[silverado04]

Just wondering you say you do not want the MPG of a 6.0 or a 8.1 but based on the most I have heard the duramax's get "about" the same amount.. Not to mention around here (Iowa) the fuel price is anywhere from $0.10 to $0.25 Higher per gallon then Gas..

again this is aprox, and just food for thought.. I drove one about 400 miles

and ran around 12mpg empty.. dont know if thats good or bad for the Duramax?

But then like said many many times when looking at the HD series mpg is a given.

(your always given up $$'s for gas/fuel)

 

Good Luck,

 

((I would do the 8.1 and never look back!!))

mine is the 6.0 and I get around 12-14mpg,

[tehMidget]

The price of diesel is higher here as well. I love the chevy and the tranny is going to be an auto. I am leaning toward the 8.1 with the more reading i do. One problem is they are very hard to find. I guess when you find something that works you keep it.

 

Cummins is a great engine and it gets good mielage as well, guess i need to go drive them all and see what i like best.

[Truckman031]

The $5,000 extra to get the diesel option, will buy alot of gas.

[Daubs]

The $5,000 extra to get the diesel option, will buy alot of gas.

 

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It really depends on how much you drive a year. I only put about 12k on my daily driver per year. Wanted an HD and looked at MPG, gas prices, etc.

 

In the end I went with the 8.1/Allison. I broke out excel and ran numbers. I can basically drive my 8.1 for seven years and still have not paid for the cost of the D-max. After seven years the D-max becomes a better deal when you factor in initial cost and cost of fuel (remember, diesel is costing more these days. My 8.1 gets ~10 city and ~12-13 highway)

 

One thing the D-max has going for it is the ability to hot-rod it! (and other diesels). I can't imagine running 1/4 mile in 13 seconds with a 7,000 pound truck! Or driving along at 40 MPH, stomping on the throttle and lighting up the tires! That would be cool...but then again, you might be spending some money to replace the drivetrain components?

[Shawn T]

This is the way I looked at it when I bought my DMax.

My truck = $47,200.00

My truck(8.1 instead) = $42,500.00

Difference = $4700 which is 10%

 

Retail value on my truck @ 30,000 miles = $37,375

Retail value on my truck @ 30,000 miles (8.1 L) = $33,300

Difference = $4,075 which is 11%

 

I usually buy a truck about every four or five years. In my situation the diesel is actually cheaper. The fuel milage difference, in my case, will take about 3.5 years and then I will be saving money. The initial truck cost five grand more, but you pick that up on resail value over the life of a few trucks. Also, as you can see I stand to make at least an 11% profit on the diesel compared to a 10% price difference at sticker. Until lately, diesel is always cheaper than 87 octane gasoline. If you buy a diesel, you will make up the cash on the back end. Diesels are very good investments when you put on 20,000 miles a year like I do, even at 12,000 I would still go with the diesel. Try to find a used Dmax and a comprable used BBL. I searched before I bought new again. The Dmax is alot hotter item. If you buy new and sell outright, you stand to make a pretty good profit. IMHO, the diesel is easier to sell than the BBL. As mentioned in the last post, diesels have endless power mods and add-ons. The stock DMaxes run pretty close with the BBL's. The torqier diesel is a little snappier than the BBL, also it does tow better. That is just the nature of the beast. I don't want to start the whole diesel-gas flame war here because in my opinion the 8.1 L is the best gasser on the market, hands down. I just gave you my scenerio, now it is up to you to decide.

[dewfpo]

My experiences in driving them both back to back very recently is that the BB gets off the line just a little faster but the diesel really pulls like a freight train from about 2,200 rpm & up where the turbo is really putting out the boost.

 

But around here diesel is about 12 cents a gallon more than Premuim gas so about 32 cents more than a gallon of RUL. I only drive my rig abut 2K a year so the numbers speak for themselves.

 

Just my observation.

 

DEWFPO

[whitesnake01]

This is the way I looked at it when I bought my DMax.

My truck = $47,200.00

My truck(8.1 instead) = $42,500.00

Difference = $4700 which is 10%

 

Retail value on my truck @ 30,000 miles = $37,375

Retail value on my truck @ 30,000 miles (8.1 L) = $33,300

Difference = $4,075 which is 11%

 

I usually buy a truck about every four or five years.  In my situation the diesel is actually cheaper.  The fuel milage difference, in my case, will take about 3.5 years and then I will be saving money.  The initial truck cost five grand more, but you pick that up on resail value over the life of a few trucks.  Also, as you can see I stand to make at least an 11% profit on the diesel compared to a 10% price difference at sticker

 

Not sure I understand your math. Both trucks lose value, so there is no profit only more or less loss (depreciation). Sounds like a 8.1L truck depreciates $9,200 over 30K miles. Meanwhile, the diesel depreciates $9,825. So, the diesel depreciated $625 more than a comparable 8.1L. If you took out a loan, I have to assume you'd pay more in interest on $47,200 than than on $42,500, which would further increase the loss. The use of the diesel can now offset the fuel costs a bit, which would help close the total cost of ownership gap between a gas and a diesel. But no profit still

 

Or am I missing something?

[Polak]

Where are you located tehMidget?

 

I know of two 8.1 Alli's in Indianapolis, IN for sale.

 

One is a '01 GMC Reg Cab Long Box 2wd

 

The other is a '01 Chev Crew Cab Short Box 4x4(mine)

 

I was shocked when I found mine at a used lot. Due to the relatively low # produced and the fact that 8.1's are generally sold private party.

 

PM me for more info.

 

AJ

[Shawn T]

This is the way I looked at it when I bought my DMax.

My truck = $47,200.00

My truck(8.1 instead) = $42,500.00

Difference = $4700 which is 10%

 

Retail value on my truck @ 30,000 miles = $37,375

Retail value on my truck @ 30,000 miles (8.1 L) = $33,300

Difference = $4,075 which is 11%

 

I usually buy a truck about every four or five years.  In my situation the diesel is actually cheaper.  The fuel milage difference, in my case, will take about 3.5 years and then I will be saving money.  The initial truck cost five grand more, but you pick that up on resail value over the life of a few trucks.  Also, as you can see I stand to make at least an 11% profit on the diesel compared to a 10% price difference at sticker

 

Not sure I understand your math. Both trucks lose value, so there is no profit only more or less loss (depreciation). Sounds like a 8.1L truck depreciates $9,200 over 30K miles. Meanwhile, the diesel depreciates $9,825. So, the diesel depreciated $625 more than a comparable 8.1L. If you took out a loan, I have to assume you'd pay more in interest on $47,200 than than on $42,500, which would further increase the loss. The use of the diesel can now offset the fuel costs a bit, which would help close the total cost of ownership gap between a gas and a diesel. But no profit still

 

Or am I missing something?

 

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whitesnake01,

It is not a significant difference. You are right. But compare 47,200 to 9825, that is 21%. 42,500 to 9200 is 22% of the price of the truck. So the gas motor does depreciate more than the diesel. What I was trying to say is that after a few vehicles I will make back the initial $5000 grand that I sunk into the diesel in the first place. Yes the interest is more, but not when you finance with GMAC for 0%. I also recieved an incentive for purchasing the diesel. Like I said, up front I will pay more, but the miles I put on a truck, I will be money ahead. Infact I figure with the fuel that I have put into my last two diesels(diesel is cheaper than gas where I am from) I am really close to being even right now. That is compared to the BBL. I just get sick of gassers always saying that the $5000 grand is a waste of money for the diesel, you can never make that up. Not true, in my case. Besides I am happy with a huge amount on the torque end over the gasser. The fuel range on the highway in my truck is one third longer than the big block also. That is 21 mpg for me and 14 mpg for the gasser. When I did the calculation in the first place, I had to use percentages. You cant just compare apples to apples because the sticker prices are different. What I did was open up a spreadsheet that compared fuel mileage, fuel price, depreciation, sticker price, and total miles. I guess I am just an anal Engineer. Once again, not trying to start the age old diesel vs gas flame war, because in my opinion the 8.1L is the best gas motor on the market, hands down. I would love to have enough money to own both motors.

[Daubs]

This is the way I looked at it when I bought my DMax.

My truck = $47,200.00

My truck(8.1 instead) = $42,500.00

Difference = $4700 which is 10%

 

Retail value on my truck @ 30,000 miles = $37,375

Retail value on my truck @ 30,000 miles (8.1 L) = $33,300

Difference = $4,075 which is 11%

 

I usually buy a truck about every four or five years.  In my situation the diesel is actually cheaper.  The fuel milage difference, in my case, will take about 3.5 years and then I will be saving money.  The initial truck cost five grand more, but you pick that up on resail value over the life of a few trucks.  Also, as you can see I stand to make at least an 11% profit on the diesel compared to a 10% price difference at sticker

 

Not sure I understand your math. Both trucks lose value, so there is no profit only more or less loss (depreciation). Sounds like a 8.1L truck depreciates $9,200 over 30K miles. Meanwhile, the diesel depreciates $9,825. So, the diesel depreciated $625 more than a comparable 8.1L. If you took out a loan, I have to assume you'd pay more in interest on $47,200 than than on $42,500, which would further increase the loss. The use of the diesel can now offset the fuel costs a bit, which would help close the total cost of ownership gap between a gas and a diesel. But no profit still

 

Or am I missing something?

 

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whitesnake01,

It is not a significant difference. You are right. But compare 47,200 to 9825, that is 21%. 42,500 to 9200 is 22% of the price of the truck. So the gas motor does depreciate more than the diesel. What I was trying to say is that after a few vehicles I will make back the initial $5000 grand that I sunk into the diesel in the first place. Yes the interest is more, but not when you finance with GMAC for 0%. I also recieved an incentive for purchasing the diesel. Like I said, up front I will pay more, but the miles I put on a truck, I will be money ahead. Infact I figure with the fuel that I have put into my last two diesels(diesel is cheaper than gas where I am from) I am really close to being even right now. That is compared to the BBL. I just get sick of gassers always saying that the $5000 grand is a waste of money for the diesel, you can never make that up. Not true, in my case. Besides I am happy with a huge amount on the torque end over the gasser. The fuel range on the highway in my truck is one third longer than the big block also. That is 21 mpg for me and 14 mpg for the gasser. When I did the calculation in the first place, I had to use percentages. You cant just compare apples to apples because the sticker prices are different. What I did was open up a spreadsheet that compared fuel mileage, fuel price, depreciation, sticker price, and total miles. I guess I am just an anal Engineer. Once again, not trying to start the age old diesel vs gas flame war, because in my opinion the 8.1L is the best gas motor on the market, hands down. I would love to have enough money to own both motors.

 

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As a gasser I'd like to say "no offense taken." I understand your reasons for getting the D-max. I like my Big Block and feel the Duramax is the best diesel out there. Two great engines for GM lovers to choose from.

 

When it comes to crunching numbers and justifying our purchases, well, we can make Excel do crazy things to justify our purchases. Bottom line is, yes, vehicles are going to depreciate over time. Yes, D-max gets better MPG than 8.1. Yes, diesel costs more than gas (for now). Yes, my Big Block can pass anything on the road...except a gas station .

 

I'm happy with my purchase. I'm sure you are happy with yours. I'll just leave it at that.

[Shawn T]

Daubs,

Right on, Right on. Like I said, there is alot to say about a GM BBL. Awesome trucks. And, yes your right, I think we all use the Excel "paper version" first. That is not the real world though. It sure made me sound smart, you have to admit that.

[whitesnake01]

Hi sstimothy,

 

My comment was mainly about how statistics can be very confusing if you are not clear on what you are comparing.

 

A good related story I read a few years back was talking abot how the local government in a part of Mexico was trying to address the issue over not enough lane capacity on the highway. They realized they did not have the money to widen the road. So they did the next best thing: they repainted the lanes, going from two lanes to three narrow ones. This was clearly a victory -- lane capacity increased by 50%!!

 

It did not take long until people realized that this road got worse than before because there was just not enough space. What did they do? They went back to two lanes. How can you do this and save some face? You announce a 33% decrease in lane capacity. This is obviously a net gain of 17% road capacity, without even widening the road. Everybody wins