Why go with GM?

campertime · April 27, 2005

Howdy all - I have been lurking around this site for about 6 months. Reading about everybodys rides, mod's, truck problems, etc. I have learned quite a bit of info here and thank you for that. I have also noticed the general feel of this forum lately has been pretty negative. People complaining about their rides or the future of GM products. That said, I realize that more people complain when things are bad than they praise when things are good, so I am still considering a GM 1500.

Here is a little history:

I have had plenty of GM products in the past. Starting with an 86 s-10 pickup, then a 90 z24, then a 91 s10 blazer 4x4. All riddled with problems, trim falling off, rust, starter problems, power window problems, etc, etc. I could go all day listing the problems. Currently my wife drives a 98 Grand Prix and it has had headlamp problems, door trim problems, deck lid problems, cooling problems, wheel/hub problems, strut problems, etc. So I decided our next new vehicle would not be a GM product.

Our next purchase was a 2001 Dodge Dakota Quad cab 4x4. We experience NO problems with it at all except for a recall on seatbelt anchor bolts. This vehicle was flawless until I totalled it in an accident. I replaced that truck with my current vehicle, a leased 2003 Dodge Ram Quad Cab 4x4.

This truck has so far been the best vehicle I have ever owned. It has a quiet, roomy, and great looking cabin, geat WOW styling, a 4.7L v8 and 3.92 rearend that pulls my 4900lb trailer like it isn't even there. The fit and finish of the interior trim is excellent. There is absolutely no rattle, shake or shimy in the drive. I can't find one thing to complain about except the gas mileage. I average 14mpg city driving. I am very happy with this truck.

Now my lease will be ending in 5-6 months and I have to replace it with something. I have really been looking at the new GM 1500 1/2 ton crew cabs with the short boxes. The things that have me looking are: the gas mileage APPEARS to be better (3.42 rear axle), the cab has 3" more rear legroom (although it isn't as wide or tall which really makes it feel smaller), and the "auto" setting for the push button 4x4 looks like a nice feature to have.

My concerns are as follows:

Has GM improved quality or will this thing break or be recalled as much as past vehicles I have owned?

I noticed this truck is not available in 4x4 with the 3.73 axle ratio. Will the 3.42 tow my trailer as well as the Ram does? (I don't want the 10-12mpg of the 4.10 rearend.)

The Ram's short box is 6'2" long and is great for our uses. (bikes, firewood, cooler, occasional trip to home depot) The GM's short bed is 5'8". Will I miss the 6"?

So tell me WHY should I buy a GM 1500?

Oh and sorry for the loooong post.......

JRW68 · April 27, 2005

My family has been GM owner for 30 some years or so. From a 79 GMC truck with over 200,000 miles and only ever getting a clutch, to a 91 lumina that had 180,000 miles before we traded it in on another one. We currently have 99 1500 and a 02 grand prix. Currently, there are six people in my immediate family that have 1500s and they are all trouble free.

Im sorry that you had so much trouble with GM.. .my only complaints are with their dealerships and how GM claims to have no say in how the dealerships conduct buisness.

With that said... i suggest you go test drive one you like and see for yourself. I believe the reason you are hearing so many negs. here is because its a forum... very few people post messages titled "my truck has been trouble free for another week"... Im sure if you started a post saying... "who here loves their 1500"... you will get overwhelming response... in fact this might turn into one of those posts.

cdn111 · April 27, 2005

And yes the bed on the 1/2 ton crew may be shorter but Dodge does not have a TRUE Crew cab in the 1/2 ton. The cabs are equal about to an ex-cab silverado. I have not heard much good about the dodge motors i.e. either power complaints or fuel mileage. Other than that, it's going to come down to personal preference.

snoman · April 27, 2005

And yes the bed on the 1/2 ton crew may be shorter but Dodge does not have a TRUE Crew cab in the 1/2 ton. The cabs are equal about to an ex-cab silverado. I have not heard much good about the dodge motors i.e. either power complaints or fuel mileage. Other than that, it's going to come down to personal preference.

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Dodge gas truck have long been known for their thirst for fuel and the ride and handling of the GM IFS is well above the Didge full sized trucks. Also in 4x4 there is no torque whip/steer when the wheels are turned tightly because GM has CV's in front axle shafts and Dodge no longer offer any disconnect mechanisim in the front axle of its HD trucks so that hurts you in MPG too because it is all always turning.

jhm · April 27, 2005

I can tell you this: Don't expect better than 14mpg around town. I drive pretty much civilized and with my '01 4.8L 4x4 ext cab short bed, very well maintained, I avg 14.1 mpg around town. I have seen where people say they get 16-17, I don't see how that is possible "around town".

campertime · April 27, 2005

And yes the bed on the 1/2 ton crew may be shorter but Dodge does not have a TRUE Crew cab in the 1/2 ton. The cabs are equal about to an ex-cab silverado.

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cd - actually I would consider the dodge a "true" crew cab becuase it is much bigger than a GM ext cab and has regular doors.

Here are the rear passenger room numbers:

------------------------ GM Ext Cab ----- Dodge QC ----- GM Crew

Headroom: ------------- 38.4" ------------- 40.0" ----------- 40.2"

Leg Room: ------------- 33.7" ------------- 36.4" ----------- 39.1"

Shoulder Room: ------- 66.3" ------------- 66.7" ----------- 65.1"

Hip Room: -------------- 61.4" ------------- 64.6" ----------- 62.9"

As you can see the Dodge has more rear passenger room than both the GM ext cab and crew. Only place the GM is bigger is rear leg room (3" longer) Front passenger room numbers are all the same except dodge has 4" more hip room. I have to say the quad cab is real competitve.

There is still something drawing me towards the GM Crew, I don't know what it is. Maybe it's a combination of the ride, creature comforts, mpg, and styling. Guess I'm just looking for some reassurance that GM makes a decent product?

snoman · April 27, 2005

I can tell you this: Don't expect better than 14mpg around town. I drive pretty much civilized and with my '01 4.8L 4x4 ext cab short bed, very well maintained, I avg 14.1 mpg around town. I have seen where people say they get 16-17, I don't see how that is possible "around town".

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I get a little over 13mpg with a K3500 and a 5.7 around town so I would not say that 14 mpg is really good for a 1/2 ton truck with a 4.7. My old 89 4x4 burb will do about 14 around town and between 17 and 18 mpg on hiway. I believe GM trucks with 4.8's will do a good bit better around town too.

Chris97K1500 · April 27, 2005

From 2 family members wanting to buy a Dodge QC with a Hemi, I talked them into at least test driving a Chevy CC 1500 with a 5.3. After both loving the Dodge after driving it, they absolutely were 100% sold on a Chevy CC after driving it. The ride is no comparison IMO. Alot of people complain about GM not having a solid front axle, but I'm glad they don't, even though I'm a GM man, the IFS is what keeps me from looking at anything else. You'll find pros and cons all day long, it basically comes down to test driving them and seeing what works best for you. I know the QC has some larger dimensions in some areas, but you really don't gain any benefit is size unless you are cramped in shoulder to shoulder. With that said, the extra 3" in leg room is the biggest advantage, especially when you've got tall people as friends. I being 6'5" have no trouble fitting my legs in the CC, but the QC was a bit tigher fitting, especially since the drivers are over 6' tall. Good luck with whatever you decide, just drive both around to get a feel for them. Chris

jhm · April 27, 2005

I can tell you this: Don't expect better than 14mpg around town. I drive pretty much civilized and with my '01 4.8L 4x4 ext cab short bed, very well maintained, I avg 14.1 mpg around town. I have seen where people say they get 16-17, I don't see how that is possible "around town".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I get a little over 13mpg with a K3500 and a 5.7 around town so I would not say that 14 mpg is really good for a 1/2 ton truck with a 4.7. My old 89 4x4 burb will do about 14 around town and between 17 and 18 mpg on hiway. I believe GM trucks with 4.8's will do a good bit better around town too.

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You are right, I also would not say 14 around town is good. Unfortunately, that is the reality. A 4.8 vs a 5.3 in the gas mileage arena is negligible. The smaller engine may get 1-2 mpg more depending on how it is driven. The best I have ever gotten was 15.2, winter fuel mix really kills it. If it was not 4wd with the ext cab it certainly would be better. Heavy truck driving around town just ain't gonna get decent mpg.

USA1Fan · April 27, 2005

I have an '04 4x4 extended cab short box 5.3l w/3.73 rear end and autotrac transfer case (Z-71 LS). Believe it or not, the Dodge might come out with more space in the QC when you calculate volume in the rear, but like Chris said the big area of concern in these trucks is usually legroom (translates loosely into front-rear space). Nearly all of them have more than enough space side to side (shoulder and hip room), and most are the same for headroom. But get into one with tight leg space and you feel cramped immediately. Because the numbers are so close between the Dodge QC and the Chevy / GMC extended cab for leg room I'd also agree that the QC is basically equivalent to the extended cab for daily use. To judge for yourself you really need to go to the local dealership and sit in the back seat of each one.

As far as the mileage thing goes I can't comment on pure in-town driving, because I haven't run a full tank out purely in-town with my Silverado. I always end up with at least some highway driving by virtue of where I live vs. where I work / shop. I do however log my mileage with every fill up, and even with the most city driving I've done I haven't gone under 16.3 (and this was in the middle of winter, when I lost .5 - 1 mpg on average). So I have a hard time believing that 14 is the pure in-town average. I could possibly see 15 or 15.5 for all around town 30-45 mph, lots of stops, etc. though. If I got lower than that with this truck and hadn't been dogging it or stuck idling because of traffic accidents I'd be seeing my service department ASAP.

BTW, current mileage figures are-

(throwing out the first tank from the dealership because they filled it, then had to let it idle for like 3 hours to recharge the battery from sitting on the lot- but that one was 13.5 )

lowest tank- 16.3 mpg

best tank- 19.6 mpg

most common range (20/80 city/highway mix) between 17.5 and 19.0

I'm experimenting right now with different fuel octanes and different brands of gas, gonna take probably 2 months to complete, since I'm doing 3 tanks of 93 (on 3rd tank of that now), then 3 tanks of the regular 89, then switching to a Shell station and repeating both, so see what works best in my truck. I'll probably post a new topic with the results (including individual tank mileage, etc.) once I'm done, since so many people ask about mileage for our trucks and since I'm fairly anal about tracking mine anyway. (My father taught me that if you saw a significant drop without a change in driving style, conditions, or fuel, probably better get the vehicle checked out..)

campertime · April 27, 2005

USA1fan - I agree about the rear leg room being important. I have two kids under 7 and they don't complain. It's the occasional adult riding along I would like more legroom for. I will say one thing about front and rear hip/shoulder room. I have a freind that has an 02 silverado ext cab and another with an 04 avelanche. Both of them always say "Dang this has alot of room compared to mine" when they get in the front seat of my ram. I think that extra 4 inches in width really affects your perception.

I have test driven the 05 crew 4x4 and I do like the ride, but I am comparing it to my ram with low profile rubber and 20" rims.

thanks guys, great comments - keep em coming!

Bill55AZ · April 27, 2005

I have a 2002 Silverado half ton, 5.3, auto, and 3.73 gears. It gets 15-16 around town in the Phoenix area. We have a lot of streets with 45MPH speed limits, and I try to time the lights. On the highway, with light to medium loads, I get 19MPG, 20 if empty and not too many hills.

I tow a 6000# load occasionally, and would not attempt that with the smaller V8 and 3.42 gears, unless it was all flat land.

I had a 95 Dakota before this one, 5.2 engine, 3.5 gears, auto, and it did less in town, better on the highway. I have towed that same 6000# load with it, and it managed it OK on flat land, but the load tended to push the truck around. My son has that truck now.

Both trucks have electric brake controller.

I would have bought a new Dodge truck, but they have won the ugly contest that they are competing in with Ford. The Cummins Diesel is tempting, but I didn't have the bucks. Maybe next truck.....

asilverblazer · April 27, 2005

And yes the bed on the 1/2 ton crew may be shorter but Dodge does not have a TRUE Crew cab in the 1/2 ton. The cabs are equal about to an ex-cab silverado.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

cd - actually I would consider the dodge a "true" crew cab becuase it is much bigger than a GM ext cab and has regular doors.

Here are the rear passenger room numbers:

------------------------ GM Ext Cab ----- Dodge QC ----- GM Crew

Headroom: ------------- 38.4" ------------- 40.0" ----------- 40.2"

Leg Room: ------------- 33.7" ------------- 36.4" ----------- 39.1"

Shoulder Room: ------- 66.3" ------------- 66.7" ----------- 65.1"

Hip Room: -------------- 61.4" ------------- 64.6" ----------- 62.9"

As you can see the Dodge has more rear passenger room than both the GM ext cab and crew. Only place the GM is bigger is rear leg room (3" longer) Front passenger room numbers are all the same except dodge has 4" more hip room. I have to say the quad cab is real competitve.

There is still something drawing me towards the GM Crew, I don't know what it is. Maybe it's a combination of the ride, creature comforts, mpg, and styling. Guess I'm just looking for some reassurance that GM makes a decent product?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Look like the GM Crew is bigger in two places. I always felt the interior is much nicer in the Silverado than the Dodge. Overall fit and finish seems better to. Could be a little biased though.

As all replies will be.

KYBullet · April 27, 2005

I have the very truck you're looking at. A 2004 GMC 1500 Crew Z71, loaded up (only missing the DVD player) and mine has the 3.73 rear end in it...I wouldn't have bought it without a 3.73 rear.

I love my truck-at the time I bought it, I contemplated it, a Tundra, a new F150 and a DuraMax Crew Cab. I bought my truck in July and 20,000 miles later-I love my baby. I wouldn't own anything else and if I had to go back and buy another, it would be the same thing. The reason I didn't even look at a Dodge is because I wanted a "true" crew cab, but remember, they are coming out with the "MegaCab" this summer. Still, in Central KY, you lose so much money trading in a Dodge gas motor, it wouldn't have been in the cards.

Around town I get right at 14 MPG and out on the highway, I'm looking between 18 and 19 on cruise control. I switched it to Amosil at 10,000 miles and saw slight improvement on fuel economy, but a lot better on idle and cold morning starts!

I pull my bass boat with ease and love being able to haul 5 of my buddies around to go bar hopping. There is as much room in the back as in my mom's 99 Tahoe. I wouldn't trade it for the world.

jhm · April 27, 2005

BTW, current mileage figures are-
(throwing out the first tank from the dealership because they filled it, then had to let it idle for like 3 hours to recharge the battery from sitting on the lot- but that one was 13.5 )

lowest tank- 16.3 mpg

best tank- 19.6 mpg

most common range (20/80 city/highway mix) between 17.5 and 19.0

How could you know the mpg from the first tank filled by the dealer? Did they give you a reciept showing the EXACT amount of fuel pumped? Just because the gage may have showed full, you don't know how many gallons are in the tank to accurately figure mileage. This is why I think some people, not saying you, calculate their mpg incorrectly. I know people who fill the tank, then top it off to get an even dollar amount and divide the miles by what the owners manual says the capacity is, or what they think they read it was. The truck was left idling for 3 hours and you got 13.5mpg? That is wild! That dealer should invest in a battery charger, it would pay for itself in no time. My driving is 90% rural 10% short hiway trips. Believe me, I am not making this up, the truck averages 14.1 and there is nothing wrong with it. I actually had the dealer put it on the computer to make sure it wasn't running rich, everything was perfect.