Do Not Tune Till You Read This!

gaidin43 · June 2, 2009

There has been a lot of debate on tuning vs. non-tuning, both in regards to performance gains and warranty issues. The following is something I pulled from another post, but think it is important enough to make a new thread on.

This could be an end to getting your NEW vehicles tuned right away. Warranty for most people will take precedence over performance. Once the warranty is up, hell go for it, but the cost of a new transmission or engine replacement/repair FAR out weighs the gains you would get with driviablity and performance in my opinion.

I was on the fence about getting a blackbear tune to my new 2009, but this bulletin, helped me decide. I am not against tunes and I believe that we should be allowed to customize our vehicles as we see fit for our own end uses (we do this with nearly ever other customer end product). Hell once my warranty is up... I am going right to a custom tune, but not until than.

QUOTE Identifying Aftermarket Non-GM Calibrations

By Blog Admin on February 1, 2009 7:17 PM | No Comments

For more details, refer to bulletins 08-06-04-033 (Gasoline Engines) and 08-06-04-006A (Diesel Engines).

General Motors is identifying an increasing number of engine, transmission and catalytic converter part failures that are the result of non GM - aftermarket engine and transmission control calibrations being used.

When alteration to the GM released engine or transmission control calibrations occurs, it subjects powertrain and driveline components (engine, transmission, transfer case, driveshaft and rear axle) to stresses that were not tested by General Motors. It is because of these unknown stresses, and the potential to alter reliability, durability and emissions performance, that GM has adopted a policy to cancel any remaining warranty coverage to the powertrain and driveline components, whenever the presence of a non-GM / aftermarket calibration is confirmed -- even if the non-GM control module calibration is subsequently removed.

Warranty coverage is based on the equipment and calibrations that were released on the vehicle at time of sale, or subsequently updated by GM. That's because GM testing and validation matches the calibration to a host of criteria that are essential to assure reliability, durability and emissions performance over the life of the warranty coverage and beyond. Stresses resulting from calibrations different than those tested and released by GM can damage or weaken components, leading to poor performance and or shortened life.

Additionally; non-GM-issued aftermarket engine control modifications often do not meet the same emissions performance standards as GM-issued calibrations. Depending on state statutes, individuals who install engine control module calibrations that put the vehicle outside the parameters of emissions certification standards may be subject to fines and / or penalties.

GM service bulletins 08-06-04-033 and 08-06-04-006 outline procedures to identify the presence of non-GM / aftermarket calibrations. GM recommends performing this check whenever a hard part failure is seen on internal engine or transmission components, or before an engine assembly or transmission assembly is being replaced under warranty. It is also recommended that the engine calibration verification procedure be performed whenever diagnostics indicate that catalytic converter replacement is indicated.

In February 2009, PQC will begin piloting a process to confirm the ECM calibration is GM-issued. Beginning in February, PQC will require a picture of the engine calibration verification screen, as outlined in the bulletin, before authorizing any V8 engine replacement (both Gas and Diesel). (fig. 19)

If a non-GM calibration is detected by the dealership, follow the procedures outlined in the bulletin. Once documentation of the non-GM calibration has been received, and verification has taken place through GM, the remaining powertrain and driveline warranty will be cancelled and noted in VISS, and the dealership will receive the following notification:

Based on information that has been received, please inform the customer that the Powertrain portion of the New Vehicle Warranty is no longer in effect for the engine, transmission, driveline and rear axle on VIN XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX, due to the presence of non-GM calibrations and / or equipment. The stresses resulting from the non-GM calibrations and / or equipment were not validated by GM and therefore cannot be warranted on any components that are subject to those stresses. Repairs to powertrain or driveline components that may currently require repair should not be covered under the terms of the new vehicle warranty. The warranty group has been advised of this information and VISS will be updated accordingly.

VMax2007 · June 2, 2009

This has been discussed and beaten to death a million f**king times. The truth is that unless you have a Vette or a Diesel truck, they are not going to waste their time "looking for tuning evidence", especially if you swap the modules and keep your stock ones. The TSB above does NOT say anything about being able to track "counters" in the ECM, so until someone shows me PROOF that GM can tell you swapped out your stock modules, it is nothing but heresay anyway.

Sure, if you race your truck or beat the snot out of it and it is quite obvious the failure occured from abuse (which it likely will be), then yes, they may look into it. But for the 99% of us that tune for driveability and keep the stock modules, there is very little risk of any warranty issues.

Remove the tinfoil hat. Paranoia is a sickness.

slomo007 · June 2, 2009

Please explain how getting a new set of chips will not get around this problem.

And also, notice this part in particular:

In February 2009, PQC will begin piloting a process to confirm the ECM calibration is GM-issued. Beginning in February, PQC will require a picture of the engine calibration verification screen, as outlined in the bulletin, before authorizing any V8 engine replacement (both Gas and Diesel).

How many people with tunes have you heard of that need an engine replacement? Transmission replacement maybe, but not engine. It will be 1-2 years until they expand this pilot program to actually do anything else, IMO. And I still think that unless you bring your truck in with the tune still in place, they are not going to do the necessary leg work to find out if you once had a tune....especially not if you swapped out the ECM and TCM.

You're fear mongering with posts like this.

wlvrn1215 · June 2, 2009

IF anyone else posts stupid shit like this again im gonna ****ing puke

66nova · June 2, 2009

For me it is worth the risk, sorry. I am with Jeff on this. My truck is otherwise stock, well thanks to slomo007 it now has an intake tube and I kept the stock modules. Maybe they will be able to tell, but I doubt it. That TSB says to look engine calibrations. Nothing about an ECM clock. Even if they do go looking, are able to tell and happen to void my warranty it's still worth it for me. I didn't want to wait 5 years or 100,000 miles.

superjim · June 2, 2009

For me it is worth the risk, sorry. I am with Jeff on this. My truck is otherwise stock, well thanks to slomo007 it now has an intake tube and I kept the stock modules. Maybe they will be able to tell, but I doubt it. That TSB says to look engine calibrations. Nothing about an ECM clock. Even if they do go looking, are able to tell and happen to void my warranty it's still worth it for me.

I didn't want to wait 5 years or 100,000 miles.

Agree with all the above.

Mine is under warranty till DEC 2011 or 104,000 miles...whichever comes first.

I could not wait that long to get it tuned.

I still have my original UNTUNED modules, which I will put back in if it ever has to go to the dealer.

wlvrn1215 · June 2, 2009

all of this crap is speculation.

vortec350 · June 2, 2009

I could not imagine driving something boring like a truck with a stock tune tune any or no mods done.I could not do it

I voided my warrany on my 06 crewcab the day I bought it.LOL

gaidin43 · June 2, 2009

This is not speculation. The bulletin is posted and states very clearly what will happen if a tune is found, or the results of the damage is cause by the tune.

I am not judging, just stating the facts and letting people decide what to do to their own trucks. Personally I would love a tune, cause the new 2009 5.3 drives like ass and super rich with a factory tune compared to the 2001 5.3l (my old truck, 4spd).

I am talking with a tech about the "counter" and how they actually can determine it. I just don't see giving the dealer another opportunity to void or not honor the warranty that I feel as if I "bought" it when I bought the truck.

fbachman · June 2, 2009

As long as the vehicle shows up at the dealer with a stock calibration, they are SOL. They may SUSPECT something in terms of aftermarket calibration, but wouldn't be able to prove it.

Now, if you have a warranty concern, and show up with the non-gm calibration in the ECM/TCM, they can detect it.

Some hand-helds leave a footprint, even after a restore. One in particular I am familiar with does not. Whether, or not, they actually CAN detet the footprint is an issue of wild speculation.

A trusted source familiar with GM products tells me that it is all too easy to say you can detect it (after the fact) restored, or not, but a complete other thing to actually DETECT it and be able to prove it.

IT is my understanding that, starting with the last model year, the corvette ECM was actually designed to do just this, detect the presence of aftermarket calibrations. But, again, if ti is restored, I have NO CLUE whether, or not, they can say it HAD a tune in it at one time or another.

On the other hand, if I tune, I assume a certain risk. If I were to hose something up, and it IS really the fault of the tune, is it right for me to expect GM to fix it?

Life is a cathederal of choices. You make them, and live with them. I chose to tune, and assumed a risk doing so... worth it in my mind.....

alaska511 · June 2, 2009

You guys who start these should search out these threads, there are SO many of these that already state this info...

jrrod2004 · June 2, 2009

TO the OP:

My transmission DIED because GM FAILED to FILL the transmission with the appropriate level of fluid from the factory. They filled it with "VOLUME" fluid instead of actually measuring it. This action caused my trans to go at 15000 miles and costing them $3500.00 in warranty work. They wanted to save $1-9 dollars per transmission by volume filling it instead of MEASURING it to full. Needless to say, after the new one was put in, I went and got a Blackbear Tune (while the truck was still in warranty) and have never looked back. Those shifts are like the old GMT400s and the trans is not heating up as much. You have to remember that GM allows for the slippage so that the customer does not perceive the trans banging into the next gear. I prefer a little of crisp shifting (also to some known as banging but it is really not) to guarantee a reduction in heat and wear to the bands/gears. It is TRUE that GM can look into what kind of tune (depending on application) but they really will not bother when it is clear that it was THEIR fault and not yours - i.e. when somebody's engine had a bent rod/lifter (or whatever) and it killed the motor and GM decided to put in another part to replace it and even the replacement part could not correct the concern, therefore GM had to pay for a new engine to be put in. I agree with Jeff (VMAX2007) on this one. If you dont want to roll the dice, hey that is cool with you. We that want to roll the dice have done so already and we have liked the results that we have gotten. By the way, here is some food for thought: My buddy that has a GMT800 Z71 (with all those damn nannies on his truck) prefers to drive mine because he says that it is like driving a new truck even though we have siimilar trucks...

jrrod2004 · June 2, 2009

As long as the vehicle shows up at the dealer with a stock calibration, they are SOL. They may SUSPECT something in terms of aftermarket calibration, but wouldn't be able to prove it.

Now, if you have a warranty concern, and show up with the non-gm calibration in the ECM/TCM, they can detect it.

Some hand-helds leave a footprint, even after a restore. One in particular I am familiar with does not. Whether, or not, they actually CAN detet the footprint is an issue of wild speculation.

A trusted source familiar with GM products tells me that it is all too easy to say you can detect it (after the fact) restored, or not, but a complete other thing to actually DETECT it and be able to prove it.

IT is my understanding that, starting with the last model year, the corvette ECM was actually designed to do just this, detect the presence of aftermarket calibrations. But, again, if ti is restored, I have NO CLUE whether, or not, they can say it HAD a tune in it at one time or another.

On the other hand, if I tune, I assume a certain risk. If I were to hose something up, and it IS really the fault of the tune, is it right for me to expect GM to fix it?

Life is a cathederal of choices. You make them, and live with them. I chose to tune, and assumed a risk doing so... worth it in my mind.....

And Frank says it best...

Draenor · June 2, 2009

I'll post this again for you....enough of this.

Corporate Bulletin Number 08-06-04-033 is currently available in SI.

Identifying Aftermarket Engine Calibrations 2.0L, 2.2L, 2.4L, 2.8L, 2.9L, 3.0L, 3.1L, 3.2L, 3.4L,

3.5L, 3.6L, 3.8L, 3.9L, 4.2L, 4.3L, 4.4L, 4.6L, 4.8L, 5.0L, 5.3L, 5.7L, 6.0L, 6.2L, 7.0L, 7.4L, 8.1L

Gas Powered Engines Only

Models: 20062009 GM Passenger Cars and Light Duty Trucks

20062009 HUMMER H2, H3

Excluding Pontiac Vibe, G8, Chevrolet Aveo, All Saturn and Saab Models

Important: This bulletin applies to Gas Powered Engines ONLY. For Diesel Powered Engines, refer to Service Bulletin #08-06-04-006A.

If a suspicious hard part failure is observed in the engine, transmission, transfer case or driveline, perform the calibration verification described to determine if a non-GM issued engine calibration is installed. Non-GM issued engine calibrations subject driveline components to stresses different than the calibrations which these components were validated to. Repairs to transmission, transfer case and/or other driveline components where a non-GM engine calibration has been verified are not covered under the terms of the New Vehicle Warranty.

Instructions for Confirming Calibration Verification Number (CVN):

1. Go to TIS2WEB

2. Select "Calibration Information (SPS Info)"

3. Enter VIN

4. Select "Get Cal ID"

5. Select "ECM Engine Control Module"

6. Select "Next"

7. Select "Complete History"

8. Print

9. Take the printout to the vehicle along with the Tech 2®

10. Plug in the Tech 2®

11. Go to diagnostics and build the vehicle

12. Select "Powertrain"

13. Select "Engine"

14. *Select "Engine Control Module" or "PCM"

15. *Select "Module ID Information" or "I/M Information System" if module ID information selection is not available.

16. *If "I/M information System" was selected in step 15, it may be necessary to select "Vehicle Information" in order to display the calibration information.

17. Compare the calibration ID and Calibration Verification Numbers (CVN) to the Calibration Verification Numbers (CVN) on the printout.

* Steps may vary by controller.

Although the part numbers will be the same for each, it's the CVN that will determine if the calibration is GM issued. If ALL of the CVN's are EXACTLY the same, the calibration is GM issued.

If the part numbers match and ANY CVN's DO NOT match the printout, it is likely that a non-GM certified calibration has been installed.

If the CVN information is displayed as "N/A", it will be necessary to contact the TCSC to obtain the CVN information.

If a non-GM calibration is found to be in the ECM (CVN's on the Tech 2 do not match TIS printout) - In order to document the case a CLEAR digital picture should be taken of the Tech 2® screen showing the VIN and the CVN's that do not match the TIS2WEB printout. The picture, VIN and reason the vehicle is currently in for service should be emailed to [email protected] and STEVEN.R. [email protected] for verification. Please copy your GM District Service Manager (DVM) on the e-mail. GM will verify if the CVN's are not GM issued and respond via e-mail within 72 hours.

Its simple, keep a spare set of modules. The calibration that was programmed stays the same if you take the modules out and swap them in for waranty work. The info on clanges when either the ECM is reprogrammed(Tune) or flashed.