Bilstein 5100 adj shocks (front and rear)

fondupot · May 7, 2015

Maybe it's stock, .5, .75, and 1.85"? Idk i can't remember

I think its:

1. Stock

2. .75"

3. 1.25"

4. 1.85"

marino454 · May 7, 2015

I recently read a thread that said that the numbers outlined by Bilstien are the increases in shock length and don't translate to the actual amount of lift in the front end. It said something like actual lift was something close to double what the increase in shock length was so setting 3 at 1.24" would translate to something close to 2.5" of lift....Just wondering if there's any truth to this since I have close to 3" of rake on my Sierra...

Edited May 7, 2015 by marino454

nadrojcote · May 7, 2015

Fondupot is right. Changing the setting on billies doesn't make the shock longer.

5RWill · May 7, 2015

I recently read a thread that said that the numbers outlined by Bilstien are the increases in shock length and don't translate to the actual amount of lift in the front end. It said something like actual lift was something close to double what the increase in shock length was so setting 3 at 1.24" would translate to something close to 2.5" of lift....Just wondering if there's any truth to this since I have close to 3" of rake on my Sierra...

No the snap rings are directly correlated to lifting the front end. I had 3" of rake on my sierra. I got 1.85" of lift in the front. Here is how it turned out.

Edited May 7, 2015 by 5RWill

nadrojcote · May 7, 2015

No the snap rings are directly correlated to lifting the front end. I had 3" of rake on my sierra. I got 1.85" of lift in the front. Here is how it turned out.

I was under the impression that the space between each snap ring setting is about half of what they will provide for lift. Changing that definitely does not make the shock longer though, it simply compresses the coil more.

5RWill · May 7, 2015

Where did I state that it makes the shock longer? I never said such. I was letting Marino know it doesn't change the length of the shock.

It only compresses the coil more on the strut. Once the strut is mounted the displacement of the spring is the same, since the weight of the truck is the only thing compressing the spring once mounted. We've been over this.

Edited May 7, 2015 by 5RWill

marino454 · May 7, 2015

I said it, I had read it somewhere else....Nice looking truck!

nadrojcote · May 7, 2015

Where did I state that it makes the shock longer? I never said such. I was letting Marino know it doesn't change the length of the shock.

It only compresses the coil more on the strut. Once the strut is mounted the displacement of the spring is the same, since the weight of the truck is the only thing compressing the spring once mounted. We've been over this.

I wasnt saying you said it, I was replying to him even though I quoted you.

Also we can go over again if you'd like. It compresses the coil even when the trucks weight is on it, thats how it creates lift. If it didn't it wouldnt lift the vehicle... Bilstein even says themselves that it creates lift by compressing the coil.

"The lift on the 5100 Series leveling shocks is achieved by increasing the preload on the factory coil. By adding more preload, the shock is designed with more rebound damping as compared to the O.E. or standard aftermarket replacement shock."

http://www.bilsteinus.com/fileadmin/user_upload/user_upload_us/pdfs/Bil_LevShks_WebArticle.pdf

so essentially it lifts the same as a coil preload spacer, but the 5100's provide the proper dampening to handle the rebound.

Edited May 7, 2015 by projectsummit

5RWill · May 7, 2015

Yes that was my point.The displacement of the spring is the same if it weren't there would be no lift. Once mounted to the truck the only thing compressing the spring is the weight of the truck itself. Hence the term preload. I think we're agreeing about the same thing. Maybe I misread your statement, didn't meant to come off offensive i thought we were getting into that "beating the horse" topic again.

Pretty much, which is weird because i couldn't find any coil spacers for these trucks yet there are plenty for every other manufacturer.

Edited May 7, 2015 by 5RWill

nadrojcote · May 7, 2015

I am still disagreeing lol. If the billies did not compress the coil more when the trucks weight is on it than a stock application does then the suspension in theory would ride the same quality wise, but instead its way stiffer.

We need to do a test and measure the coil length with 5100's installed compared to the stock coil length, both with the vehicle weight compressing the coil.

Edited May 7, 2015 by projectsummit

5RWill · May 7, 2015

That would be an interesting test. That's what our last discussion in this thread was on though: ride quality. You attributed it to a changing spring rate or stiffened spring, i think it's simply the shock itself combined with the change in geometry of suspension.

At stock application the spring is compressed by the weight of the truck. Move the snap ring the displacement and spring rate stay the same and truck's height moves as a result. This is because the only force weighing on the spring is the truck itself once mounted. We're both agreeing in the method of lifting, just disagree in what causes this "stiffness or bad ride quality" people are complaining about at max height. Which it's beyond me why i'm arguing i actually quite enjoy my 5100s at max height lol. Take the 7000mt just like the 5100, both lift about 2", both use the OEM spring to do so. Yet it supposedly rides softer than the bilstein from the only review i've found. Now i have no anecdotal evidence to prove his statement. Take your ranchos and put them on the highest ride quality setting and tell me if it compares to the harshness of your old 5100s.

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/rancho-7000-mt-shocks-253720.html#post3939515

"The 5100's and 7000's are pretty much the same shock. Same type of valving, but to reduce the harshness that a lot of people complain about- Rancho opted for less PSI.

75-100 psi is a big difference as far as harshness.

Imo, If you "like" the 5100's. you will "love" the Rancho's"

All that said i don't find my 5100s to be rough of course some might. Do i feel my stock ranchos were softer on pavement? Yup sure do but they were just that: a pavement shock. Going off road with those things or even a bumpy road was pretty annoying.

Edited May 7, 2015 by 5RWill

nadrojcote · May 7, 2015

That would be an interesting test. That's what our last discussion in this thread was on though: ride quality. You attributed it to a changing spring rate or stiffened spring, i think it's simply the shock itself combined with the change in geometry of suspension.

At stock application the spring is compressed by the weight of the truck. Move the snap ring the displacement and spring rate stay the same and truck's height moves as a result. This is because the only force weighing on the spring is the truck itself once mounted. We're both agreeing in the method of lifting, just disagree in what causes this "stiffness or bad ride quality" people are complaining about at max height. Which it's beyond me why i'm arguing i actually quite enjoy my 5100s at max height lol. Take the 7000mt just like the 5100, both lift about 2", both use the OEM spring to do so. Yet it supposedly rides softer than the bilstein from the only review i've found. Now i have no anecdotal evidence to prove his statement. Take your ranchos and put them on the highest ride quality setting and tell me if it compares to the harshness of your old 5100s.

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/rancho-7000-mt-shocks-253720.html#post3939515

"The 5100's and 7000's are pretty much the same shock. Same type of valving, but to reduce the harshness that a lot of people complain about- Rancho opted for less PSI.

75-100 psi is a big difference as far as harshness.

Imo, If you "like" the 5100's. you will "love" the Rancho's"

All that said i don't find my 5100s to be rough of course some might. Do i feel my stock ranchos were softer on pavement? Yup sure do but they were just that: a pavement shock. Going off road with those things or even a bumpy road was pretty annoying.

Oh ya raising them makes them pretty harsh that's for sure. I don't think the geometry make a huge difference on these trucks when lifting. The control arms don't go to any extreme angles that's for sure (ball joints do though). I did add some new upper control arms with my quicklifts though and it helped with topping out over speed bumps. I agree with you about the stock shocks, they are dangerous how bouncy they are. Hitting wash board and rail road tracks would make my back end up around.

nadrojcote · May 7, 2015

You should measure your coil length from top plate to bottom coil mount and take a pic, then we can compare to someone who is stock. I honestly would like to be proven wrong, just to lay this to rest. It's something that's been debated over for a long time on many different forums.

Edited May 7, 2015 by projectsummit

5RWill · May 7, 2015

Idk that i can get a picture of the entire coil i'll see though.

A little off topic you felt it rides better with new UCAs? I thought about adding some Cognitos later down the road.

nadrojcote · May 7, 2015

What I noticed with my quicklifts is that they are longer than the stock shocks, which in turn gave me the same problem that people with spacers run into (even though most of them deny the fact or else are too oblivious to notice). I would top out my suspension, meaning my shock was trying to push further than the ball joint/stops would allow it. When I would go over speed bumps the suspension would make a thump when extending after hitting it. In my case it was my ball joint angles causing me to hit my ball joint limits.

you can see in this picture how much longer it is.

I would have went with cognito control arms, but they don't have any for factory aluminum suspension. I ended up going with rough country, they were $250 and designed for factory aluminum suspension. They aren't listed online anywhere yet, but you can get them by calling them directly. They're designed for their 3.5" lift kit, but work great with 2" lift as well. I have nearly perfect ball joint angles now. Their customer support was horrible and told me that they wouldn't work with rancho's or 2" of lift, probably just being pissy that I bought someone elses product. I decided to try them despite their recommendation (to call rancho and ask if they have control arms) and I was impressed.

In these pictures you can see the difference in ball joint angles.

Edited May 7, 2015 by projectsummit