Seriously Thinking of swapping

bowtiepatroit · June 25, 2003

Hello,

I am poking around at a couple options.

I have 1500HD 3.73 gears. Tow 7500# Mid profile 5th wheel

All in all I like the truck, pulls pretty good, but at times I would like to have more guts. I do not want to hear anything like you should have bought a bigger truck, because there are many factors in my purchase.My personel opinion on the 2500HD is I am not a fan of the looks. The hood looks out of wack to me, and the 1500HD sits a tad bit lower which is a plus to me. Oh yea price. I gave 24,000 for it brand new off the lot on 4/1/02. Long story but I feel it was a good price so I bought it.

I am considering dropping some money on it and looking at how to get real power out of it. I have tried with chips,KN air filters and new exhaust on my other truck. To me I was not impressed at all with them. Did not notice much difference. If I was shaving .10 of a second off a drag car.

The top of my list is a complete 8.1L swap. My only concern with this is all the computer junk and electronics. I am sure that the 8.1 and L485E would be a great combination for my towing needs. It will hold up to the 8.1. Will it fit under the LD hood. I guess I would have to do some motor mount redesign. Can you even buy a 8.1 longblock with the intake and are the computers compatable? MPG is not a concern to me. I have got as low as 4 with the 6.0 so what the heck anyway.

Gear swap. I am not sure if a 4.10 from 3.73 would really do much. If I could find 4.56 that would work on a K series I would probably do that. Anybody know of where or if you can get 4.56 for these. It has the same front and rear end as a 2500HD. 4.88 may be to low but I could probably go that route if that is all I could find.

Supercharger. Sounds good and is probably a little cheaper than a motor swap. But I want to avoid anything that has a tendency to break down or add extra maint. cost. Or force me to use 93oct gas. When you run through 7 or 8 tanks a day just putting real estate behind you it is not worth it to me. Plus I am not sure of the longivity of the 6.0 under boost, and the pistons they are using I have read they are not really the best choice for superchargers in the long run.

I am just checking for opinions. Do not want a internet fight or anything. I am just throwing this out to see what replys I get and if anybody thinks of something I have not. Not sure exactly what OR if I will do anything. Just throwing this out and see what the GM truck guys have to say.

seadoons · June 25, 2003

Welcome to the site! Don't worry about an "internet fight," everybody here respects everybody else's opinion. Lots of people on here drive the new '03 body style and they get slammed all the time. It seems like you want to do a lot of expensive work to this truck, and it might hinder the resale value because of so many major changes. It seems like it would be simpler and cheaper to trade that one in for an HD and then just swap out the hood!

bowtiepatroit · June 25, 2003

I am a reformed internet basher. So I know how it can be.I used to go off on the littlest thing. But all it did was get me upset. So I put myself on a anti bashing program. Quit going on-line for a long time and am now easing myself back into it. Only place I bash now is on some of the political sites.

I am not worried one bit about resale value. No matter what I will get my $$$ worth of the truck. My original purcahse price was 24,000$ out the door. I seen it roll of the delivery truck on a Sunday. Dealer was closed by my saleman was there doing paperwork. I stopped in and asked him what the deal was with the truck. He went and got the paperwork on it, said it was 23,950+49 over invoice. We shook hands and I told him I would be back Monday to get my old truk apraised. On Monday the entire dealership was at my salemans desk. He sold me the truck that the service manger orderd at the price he order it for. My saleman was very forceful and said we done shook on it and it was a deal. The manager went on about paper contract and all this and my salesman said if he can not honor a handshake than they can all kiss his a$$. So I got the truck at that price+ tax. Not bad deal I guess. Probably never ever do that again in my life. I still get harassed by the dealer. But have to admit my salesman stood by his word and did not back down. Just doing some research, honestly it will probably remain an idea.

Shaners · June 25, 2003

Probably the easiest and cheapest thing to do is swap gears.

Have you driven a 1500HD or a 2500HD with 4.10's? Going from 3.73's to 4.10's is a nice combo with the 6.0L and the 4L80E for everday driving and occaisional towing. There are people on this forum that have put 4.56's in their lifted trucks and have been very happy. That would be a good gear choice for heavy or frequent towing (high RPM's though on the Interstates).

Welcome to the forum!!!

bowtiepatroit · June 25, 2003

My towing pattern is so weird. I can pulled 1000 miles on two lane black tops and then again I can run the interstate for 1000 miles. all depends on where I am going and how much time I want to spend getting there. I live in KY and usually head south so I do have pretty good hills and mountains to contend with. My weekend trips are usually only 200 miles or less of all hillbilly KY roads where 45 to 50 mph is plenty fast. Sometimes the rolling hills are harder than the big mountains with a stragiht up shot.Interstate driving I like to run 65, truck seems to do better at 75 but man that is way to fast with a wagin on the back and the family in the truck. Wonder what the cost are for a set of 4.56 for the front and rear. I have the g80 locker and would not want to do away with that.

Heck after thinking about it more, I will probably take the money and just put it in my vacation fund and just keep exercising my right foot. The truck is not a dog by far..does real good. Just a guy thing I guess looking for that little bit more power. I miss the old days when you could have fun and supe up your vehicle with 100$ and a trip to the junkyard. Who knows, I ain't got the time and it is more important now to keep my truck on the road. I love my truck..but what she tows is just as if not more important to me and the family.

MarkD · June 25, 2003

I miss the old days when you could have fun and supe up your vehicle with 100$ and a trip to the junkyard.

Tell me about it! Now-a-days power runs around $30 - $50 per HP!

ridnlow · June 25, 2003

You can also get a Wester's PCM.. ive read on other forums where he has tuned it just for people that use thier truck for towing...

cyclejerk · June 25, 2003

Can you say Wipple super charger?

$4K & 150hp!

AirForceAngler · June 26, 2003

If you really want to add some power, go with the supercharger swap.

If you tried the engine swap, it would probably end up costing more than a trade for a truck that already has an 8.1 in it. If it's only the looks you don't like about them, consider that you'd probably have to put the taller hood on your 1500 with the big block. They put that hood on them for a reason. The motor is a tad taller and the core support and radiator are bigger. Not only would you have to get a different transmission, but different transfer case also. I also doubt that the 1/2 ton axles would stand up to the 496.

Plus, a supercharger is just COOL!

Good luck!

bowtiepatroit · June 26, 2003

I have a 1500hd which is not a 1/2 ton. It has the same driveline as a 2500hd. Front and rear axles are the same as the 2500hd, and as far as the tranny the l485e would hold up to the 8.1. THink about prior to the Alley that the l480 was put in the 3500s with that 6.5. It is bascially a 400 turbo with one more gear, and being a l485e it has bigger clutches and bands. The main difference between the 1500hd and the 2500hd is the frame. The 1500HD has a larger frame than the LD2500. The 2500hd has a 8inch frame, the 1500hd uses the 2500hd frame right to the point ehre the rear drop is, then they use the LD2500 frame whic is 6 inches. This is how they get that 2inch lower out of the 1500hd. As far as radiator I am not sure, I know it is exactly the same as in a 2500HD with the 6.0L.

I am not 100% sure about the height of the 8.1. But if it is anything like a 427 or 454 it should fit under the hood. I swapped many small blocks for big blocks in cars in my youth. Never had to do anything with the hoods. For instance I put a 454 in and Elcamino, and a 427 in a 79 Malibu.

After my research and pricing some thing I give up. The truck is not that much of a dog to spend 4000$+ on more HP. $ for $ Hp is over priced to me at this point in my life. I think I am going to buy me a decent body and build this old 350 I have laying around and build me a eye buring street strip car.

Too much BS to deal with on these new vehicles.

MarkD · June 26, 2003

After my research and pricing some thing I give up. The truck is not that much of a dog to spend 4000$+ on more HP. $ for $ Hp is over priced to me at this point in my life. I think I am going to buy me a decent body and build this old 350 I have laying around and build me a eye buring street strip car.
Too much BS to deal with on these new vehicles.

I agree completely! My bro-in-law spent $12k on a rebuild/stroke of a 350!

WEFs99 · June 26, 2003

I hope this isn't comparing apples to oranges but there is a world of difference between our 5.3 with 3.73's and our 6.0 with 4.10's. The K2500HD with the 4.10's is 870 lbs heavier than the K1500 but the difference in pulling power is extreme. I'm sure the K1500 would show a tremendous improvement with 4.10's. I've had both 4.56 & 4.88's in street cars and it is OK in town and rural but got on my nerves on the highway plus every jackazz near you thinks you're racing them.

bowtiepatroit · June 26, 2003

Do not be fooled by the 1500 on a 1500HD. The 1500HD is not even in the same line as a 1500. Do not even look at the 1500 part it is all marketing. I have done a tremendous amout or research on the 1500HD. Consider it a 2400HD.

The 1500HD has a stronger suspension the the Furd F250 super duty. How do I know. My dad has a f250 and a #8500 tag along. When we sat his rig on his ball with out the weight bar it sank his rear end 4 inches. Same deal with mine and it only dropped 2 inches. It was a good experiment.

The 1500HD is not a half ton truck.

Look at the tow rate for a 5th wheel, all in 4wd and off the Chevy site for 2003.

1500HD with 3.73 is 8200 with 4.10 is 10,200

2500hd with 4.10 is 10,100( in the same config as a 1500HD) with the 8 ft bed it drops to 9,900.

The max I seen for a 1500 was 8900

Any way I am not doing anything to this truck except maintain it and pull my wagon. I was wanting to only spend about 3000 or 4000 max. Last time I built a motor I had 2500 in it and it ran 12's on the 1/4. Man have the times changed. Did not realize it until I really investigated it. Cheap HP is gone, all the fun in tinkering is gone. I was looking for a summer task to do, but this for sure is not it for me. Even a super charger is cool but I am not sold on it on a tow vehicle and if it breaks in Pig's Nuckle Ark. finding a shop to repair and get me back on the road could be a challange.

dcairns · June 26, 2003

Plus, a supercharger is just COOL!

I have a Silverado SS with the Magnacharger Radix on the LQ9 6.0L engine, which has a higher compression ratio than 1500HD's LQ4 6.0L. The LQ9 uses premuim (91 octane) stock. With the supercharger it still runs on 91 (that's all we got in California) and it got me a 38% gain in power and lots of low end power. Changes the character of the motor quite a bit.

Professor · June 26, 2003

BowtiePatroit,

You are right in people confusing the 1500HD. I guess GM finally woke up, the 2004 models will be a 2500 Crew Cab. Your combo will take the stock 8.1 power. GM puts the same components in the 2500 suburban. The hood is just decorative, the 03 HD’s have the same hood and the 1500 hood will fit the 01-02 models. Most of the difference in height is the body to frame mounts. This is necessary to clear the Allison transmission. I believe our trucks have the 9.5” ring gear. The 2500HD should have a 10.5” rear, but it wouldn’t surprise me if the 6.0 2500HD had the 9.5”

If you are running the stock 245/75 tires or 265’s I’d drop a 4.10 in it. 285s (33in) might like a 4.56 in your application. I have 285’s and 3.73 gears. It is hard to pull overdrive on slight grades with a load @ 2200 rpm. It is much easer on the truck @ 2500-2800rpm. So, mine tows better @ 85 than it does @ 70. I’m thinking about changing the gear myself. I would love to find a 9.5” 4.10 complete rear end to swap. (Anybody after better gas mileage? Mine has 54K on it w/G80)

You’ll pay about $1200 for a front and rear gear change.

A good intercooled supercharger running low boost should be VERY reliable. If you change the exhaust, I hope you have better luck than I did. I’m back to a 8.1 exhaust from a 02 HD.