pads and rotors

scottac · December 26, 2003

I am going to be doing the pads and rotors sometime next week. should I stick with manufacturer parts or go aftermarket.

thanks in advance.

badass96z71 · December 26, 2003

Well in my opinion, factory parts are always the best, however they can be the most expensive as well...... if ya go after market ie; napa or kragens etc. always buy the middle or better. In other words don't buy the cheapest they have to offer. You'll be changing them again because you can't stand the squeeks from the brakes you just replaced!

Ben · December 26, 2003

OEM is whatever brand they bought that year. GM/Ford/etc do not make every single part on the vehicle. They outsource much and brake components are some of them.

Latest, am told, at GM parts counter is Bendix HD. Maybe slightly different blend in friction material because they bought so much, they could demand whatever formulation. But pretty much same thing as any Bendix HD.

Consider Praise Dyno Brake. They are performance level (about 38% higher co-efficient of frction than OEM). Cost about same as OEM.

Here's their web site: Praise Dyno Brake

They only take phone orders, so call (972)-636-2722. Texas time. Ask for John Ambrose Jr, owner and tell him Ben Toy recommended.

scottac · December 26, 2003

anybody else have any suggestions on brakes and rotors. I liked what I read about the dyno brakes but I don't know how much of that scientific talk is BS. Molecules and atoms(whatever). Ha Ha.

Anyway are there any other suggestions.

thanks guys

SilveradoWV · December 26, 2003

I use aftermarket brakes! Not the cheapest I can find, and not the most expensive which usually never wear out, which someone once told me not to use because they will wear out the rotors way before the pads wear out. I use a medium priced brake pad with a good warranty, nothing fancy.

Nick2000Gmc · December 27, 2003

Buy aftermarket, but don't buy the expensive pads ( because they are metallic). Metallic pads are heralded as long lasting because they are partly metallic. The problem being that when you add metal to your pads they wear away at your rotors and this means everytime you replace the pads your gonna have to replace the rotors. Another suggestion I might add is to get the torx impact socket to take the caliper mounting bracket of. I tried forever and couldn't do it and risked ruining the head, I shot the impact up and it took all of 5 seconds. Also make sure you clean the pads good, maybe take an SOS pad to get any protective ANti Rust coating off. ( Most manufactures do it so you don't see any rust when you look at the pads) Also I suggest getting good Rotors and make sure you take it easy on the breaks till the break in.

Ben · December 27, 2003

Most OEM pads today are semi-metalic and guess they will go to carbon with fiber filled soon.

Old days did have semi-metalic made of too hard metal fibers, so did wear rotors, but not at a 1:1 ratio. Pure racing pads might, but they don't belong on the street.

The metal in semi-metalic is not steel, but brass or some such soft metal.

The better materials today are carbon fiber, kevlar, and ceramic. Early ceramic's were as hard and abrasive as a knife honing stone and did wear out rotors fast. Not today's better stuff.

No need to use steel wool. SOS would leave soap on the surface.

More important are the level of performance chosen and bedding in the new setup (breaking in, or curing green pads and/or green rotors).

Ultimax · December 27, 2003

I replaced my factory stuff with Power Slot rotors and Hawk brakes. The difference was night and day in braking performance. The price wasn't that much higher for the upgrade. JMO

scottac · December 27, 2003

where did you pick up your powerslots and hawk brakes.

is there a retail autoparts store that sells them or did you have to order them from the company.

thanks for the info.

DSZ71 · December 27, 2003

where did you pick up your powerslots and hawk brakes.

is there a retail autoparts store that sells them or did you have to order them from the company.

thanks for the info.

Check with StylinConcepts, JC Whitney, and Summit Racing, and I think Performance Products sells them as well. Good luck

RobZ71LM7 · December 28, 2003

I wonder about praise dyno. Their site mentions pads outgassing. Funny considering modern pads DO NOT outgass. I hope their engineers aren't the same people that work on the website. Sorry but I'll stick with HAWK.

Ben · December 28, 2003

I wonder about praise dyno. Their site mentions pads outgassing. Funny considering modern pads DO NOT outgass. I hope their engineers aren't the same people that work on the website. Sorry but I'll stick with HAWK.

If modern pads don't out gas, then why go to drilled or slotted rotors?

Main reason is gas routing so that the gas isn't traped between the friction material and rotor.

Maybe mixing up green vs cured. Part of the bedding in process...to cure the friction material and smear friction material onto the rotor, which is getting the friction material hot enough to vaporize (outgasing) and condense onto the rotor.

After it's bedded (cured) the amount of outgasing is greatly reduced, but still there.

Or look at it this way. What does NOT outgas when brought up to very high temp? Even metals and ceramics outgas when high enoungh in temp.

The Beav · December 29, 2003

Speaking of ceramics, what about them? How do they rate vs 'standard' metallic/semi pads? I've heard good things about them, but there are always 2 sides to a story...

Ben · December 29, 2003

Speaking of ceramics, what about them? How do they rate vs 'standard' metallic/semi pads? I've heard good things about them, but there are always 2 sides to a story...

The Praise Dyno Brake Stage II's will/are ceramic. Don't know if all have been converted, but they will be. Owner of Praise, John Ambrose Jr, holds patent on ceramic friction materials. Sold the patent and bought it back.

To your question, more to it than just ceramic. What the ceramic is made of, how it's made, size of the ceramic particls, the amount of ceramic particls and the binders holding the ceramic together all play on how well it works.

Old days had pure ceramic disc pads. No binders. Pure race stuff, as they wore the rotors faster than they themselves wore out. They also had higher temp rating than the rotor cast iron.

Today's "ceramic" friction materials is a complex blending of ceramic powder held together with binders. Again, what type blend of ceramic (there are many, many types of ceramic), what size when they make into powder, how much powder, and the binder composition.

So dependent on which brand and which model. Praise Dyno Stage II are ceramic (they were going to change out the whole line, and haven't talked to them in a while, so anyone considering should check with them). Nice folks, as they sent to ART for cyro/slotted rotors when they didn't have...not many would send you to their competition.

Back on the outgasing. The ceramic will outgas, but way higher temps. The main thing that outgases on ceramic pads is the binders and the other friction enhancing materials.

[edit]....forgot to mention that "ceramic" pads have other friction materials, as pure ceramic only works well when it's HOT, so almost no braking when they are cold, so they have to add other friction materials into the mix to work when it's lower temp. Tough as some of the bettre low temp stuff will melt & outgas at the temps ceramic's like best. Would assume more than one material blended in, as the temp range has to be broad.

LOVE my Praise Dyno Brake Stage II. Accident messed up the fronts and now have Wagner HD Carbon Metallic up front. The Praise Dyno Brake Stage II shoes on the rear drums out stop the fronts. Embarressing to skid the rears at each stop. Can't wait till budget relief to install the new Praise Dyno Brake Stage II pads (laid ott and waiting for budget to replace other stuff up front).