Some Assembly is Required

[Grumpy Bear]

11 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Speed postulates that higher viscosity oils have more thickeners to artificially inflate their viscosity numbers. These thickeners lose viscosity under shear, and the result is that not all oils of the same viscosity have the same shear stability.

 

He is not saying that an SAE *W20 will have more viscosity than a *W40 due to MORE VII polymers. He is saying that although multiple *W40 may post in the PDS the same or similar 100 C and 150 C viscosities that the blenders choice of modifier TYPE and AMOUNT to get his chosen base to grade will not give identical real world viscosities in shear and at temperature. All will pass the SII test but not all will pass the 100 C HTHS (unpublished value) testing the blender does and relies on to get the required by law "percentage improvement' referenced to his last great work. 

 

Tis the problem with the lie. Once told others are required to support it. 

[Chuck FB]

12 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

www.enginelabs.com/news/what-i-learned-today-bearing-clearances-vs-oil-viscosities/

 

 

www.enginelabs.com/news/oil-viscosity-can-the-numbers-be-misleading/

The Big Lie…

Coming full circle to the reason Lake discusses the Porsche engines in particular. Based on the 2000 samples in the SPEEDiagnostix database, increasing the oil viscosity in these engines, even those run on the track, showed no significant difference in results.

 

The smoking gun was in the oil chemistry. That is where the data shows higher instances of more wear. Molybdenum was the key; the higher the amount, the less the wear. Speed postulates that higher viscosity oils have more thickeners to artificially inflate their viscosity numbers. These thickeners lose viscosity under shear, and the result is that not all oils of the same viscosity have the same shear stability.

 

Having enough viscosity is the most important characteristic, but according to Speed, once that required viscosity level is reached, additive chemistry matters more than additional viscosity. Speed also states, oil pressure problems on the racetrack aren’t a viscosity problem; it’s an oiling system problem. Running a thicker oil is just a band-aid for an underlying oiling system problem.

 

Which has made me wonder with the various engine failures of a few brands in the last few years, is it sub par materials such as lifters etc causing failures, or bearing clearances on the crank etc or perhaps bad designing of an engine physically or causing too much load on the components due to the hp/torque they can push out of them. Or is the oil viscosity and additive package of current oils or a lack of oil flow by an oil pump not able to supply sufficient oil at idle or under high load at low rpm. Or is it every item I listed that combined together has pushed the limits so far to the left that there is hardly a margin of safety left and add in some fuel dilution and too long of an OCI and premature engine failure is the result ?. 

[Grumpy Bear]

9 hours ago, Chuck FB said:

Or is it every item I listed that combined together has pushed the limits so far to the left that there is hardly a margin of safety left and add in some fuel dilution and too long of an OCI and premature engine failure is the result ?. 

 

Yes  

[Grumpy Bear]

Missing pieces of the Assembly

 

Detergency vs Solvency

 

Not the same thing. Detergency is the mechanism that surrounds solid particulates preventing amalgamation. Usually accompanied by a Dispersant whose job it is to keep those encapsulated particles in Suspension. Solvency keeps things that can be dissolved in solution. 

 

Salt is a solid that can be dissolved. Pepper is a solid that cannot be dissolved. A detergent/dispersant is effective on pepper but a solvent is more effective on salt. As long as the solids remain in either state, dissolved or dispersed then they can be be removed with the oil upon change. 

 

How many wranglers does it take to herd cats? Depends on how many cats your herding. How much sponge does it take to soak up water? How much water is there to soak up? Point is most oil blends start with some herding ability and next to zero sponge and recently even fewer wranglers are being sent to do the same job. 

 

So you start with a dozen cowboys and zero cows but at the drive progresses you pick up cows along the way, but not cowboys. At some point you have more cows that the wranglers can handle and some leave the herd. Deposits. And the API has an acceptable number of cows they are willing to let loose. In the ideal world zero is the right number for he rancher but to the butcher....a few lost is fine. This cow is beat to death. Let's move on....

 

Solvency isn't something oils on the Walmart shelf care about AT ALL. Problem is, you motor does. Fuels driven varnish sticks rings and only a solvent can keep them in check. The bet is that the solids driven portion that plug the expander rings and the oil drain backs and VVT screens and AFM screens will be an issue long before varnish is. Not that it wont be but if they market well enough the consumer can be kept ignorant enough to either believe it is "normal" (A quart in 1 or 2K is normal) OR is kept at bay longer than the first owner is likely to hang on to the unit. Solvency cost money. 

 

Now the OEM's have John Q. Public buffaloed into the belief that the number cows accumulated along the trail is a known and predictable CONSTANT. It isn't. Nor is the rate at which they crossed paths with them. Only the number of wrangles is constant. Or was. Each new generation of oil sees fewer and fewer of them. 

 

So what happens when the number of cowboys is lower (lower TBN) with each seasons trail but the trial is longer (OCI) and the number of cows along that trail continues increase? (Conditions that promote deposits). 

 

For awhile the blenders were on to something. Better bases are harder to degrade (fewer cows) but that was overtaken by a longer trail (OCI) and improved breeding (More cows) while continuing to reduce the cowboy staffing levels (TBN/Aniline #). 

 

Marketing has been successful. We've fired most of the staff, cows breed line bunnies, the trail is ten times longer and we've convinced the boss his ranch is in better shape that it ever was. 

 

That kids is just the cleaning side. The side few pay attention to. 

 

 

[Grumpy Bear]

Common Sense Assembly

 

Your driveline is forgiving of the occasional mistake. It will even often forgive the random serious blunder. But it will not forgive a continuous bad habit. 

 

 

What? Not everything needs to be a five thousand word essay. 

 

 

 

[Chuck FB]

On 8/17/2026 at 11:38 PM, Grumpy Bear said:

Missing pieces of the Assembly

 

Detergency vs Solvency

 

Not the same thing. Detergency is the mechanism that surrounds solid particulates preventing amalgamation. Usually accompanied by a Dispersant whose job it is to keep those encapsulated particles in Suspension. Solvency keeps things that can be dissolved in solution. 

 

Salt is a solid that can be dissolved. Pepper is a solid that cannot be dissolved. A detergent/dispersant is effective on pepper but a solvent is more effective on salt. As long as the solids remain in either state, dissolved or dispersed then they can be be removed with the oil upon change. 

 

How many wranglers does it take to herd cats? Depends on how many cats your herding. How much sponge does it take to soak up water? How much water is there to soak up? Point is most oil blends start with some herding ability and next to zero sponge and recently even fewer wranglers are being sent to do the same job. 

 

So you start with a dozen cowboys and zero cows but at the drive progresses you pick up cows along the way, but not cowboys. At some point you have more cows that the wranglers can handle and some leave the herd. Deposits. And the API has an acceptable number of cows they are willing to let loose. In the ideal world zero is the right number for he rancher but to the butcher....a few lost is fine. This cow is beat to death. Let's move on....

 

Solvency isn't something oils on the Walmart shelf care about AT ALL. Problem is, you motor does. Fuels driven varnish sticks rings and only a solvent can keep them in check. The bet is that the solids driven portion that plug the expander rings and the oil drain backs and VVT screens and AFM screens will be an issue long before varnish is. Not that it wont be but if they market well enough the consumer can be kept ignorant enough to either believe it is "normal" (A quart in 1 or 2K is normal) OR is kept at bay longer than the first owner is likely to hang on to the unit. Solvency cost money. 

 

Now the OEM's have John Q. Public buffaloed into the belief that the number cows accumulated along the trail is a known and predictable CONSTANT. It isn't. Nor is the rate at which they crossed paths with them. Only the number of wrangles is constant. Or was. Each new generation of oil sees fewer and fewer of them. 

 

So what happens when the number of cowboys is lower (lower TBN) with each seasons trail but the trial is longer (OCI) and the number of cows along that trail continues increase? (Conditions that promote deposits). 

 

For awhile the blenders were on to something. Better bases are harder to degrade (fewer cows) but that was overtaken by a longer trail (OCI) and improved breeding (More cows) while continuing to reduce the cowboy staffing levels (TBN/Aniline #). 

 

Marketing has been successful. We've fired most of the staff, cows breed line bunnies, the trail is ten times longer and we've convinced the boss his ranch is in better shape that it ever was. 

 

That kids is just the cleaning side. The side few pay attention to. 

 

 

 

This is partly why I decided to have switched over to Amsoil SS as a way of hopefully preventing the buildup of the sludge/carbon on the pistons and clogging of the oil control rings and the carbon that would cause the compression rings to stick in their grooves as well as stay cleaner up top of the heads in the valve train in the first place, an oil that has tested better by third party testing over typical shelf oil and also doing my best to run relatively short OCI. However in saying that I don't think there is any way to easily prove the oil I was using prior allowed for a buildup at the OCI I was doing, nor in the other direction to make claims the Amsoil is keeping everything clean either. There really isn't a window into the engine is there to know anything for certain even if oil samples were taken for example that showed still healthy oil being dropped out of the oil pan other than engine tear downs that extensive and expensive testing of oils does to actually visually see what is really going on inside the engine. I wish there was some easy method of seeing what is going on but I don't happen to be aware of that if there is.

 

[Grumpy Bear]

3 hours ago, Chuck FB said:

 

This is partly why I decided to have switched over to Amsoil SS as a way of hopefully preventing the buildup of the sludge/carbon on the pistons and clogging of the oil control rings and the carbon that would cause the compression rings to stick in their grooves as well as stay cleaner up top of the heads in the valve train in the first place, an oil that has tested better by third party testing over typical shelf oil and also doing my best to run relatively short OCI. However in saying that I don't think there is any way to easily prove the oil I was using prior allowed for a buildup at the OCI I was doing, nor in the other direction to make claims the Amsoil is keeping everything clean either. There really isn't a window into the engine is there to know anything for certain even if oil samples were taken for example that showed still healthy oil being dropped out of the oil pan other than engine tear downs that extensive and expensive testing of oils does to actually visually see what is really going on inside the engine. I wish there was some easy method of seeing what is going on but I don't happen to be aware of that if there is.

 

 

AMSOIL SS is about prevention and it is very good at it's job. I've never seen it claim to be a cleaner however like Valvoline R&P. Almost any oil that has some Ester or Alkylated Naphthalene in sufficient quantity will do a good job at keeping the rings functional.  

 

I see the market splint among these types in two groups; those that use the same tech in every weight grade and those that reserve the tech for the EPA (EPA) friendly grades. Mobil 1 for example keeps the Advanced Clean chemistry out of the SAE 40 and up weights. Other like HPL (top shelf group and No-VII), Red Line HP, TORCO, MPT30K use the tech in all grades. Just not something the Wally World oils are into. 

[Chuck FB]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

AMSOIL SS is about prevention and it is very good at it's job. I've never seen it claim to be a cleaner however like Valvoline R&P. Almost any oil that has some Ester or Alkylated Naphthalene in sufficient quantity will do a good job at keeping the rings functional.  

 

I see the market splint among these types in two groups; those that use the same tech in every weight grade and those that reserve the tech for the EPA (EPA) friendly grades. Mobil 1 for example keeps the Advanced Clean chemistry out of the SAE 40 and up weights. Other like HPL (top shelf group and No-VII), Red Line HP, TORCO, MPT30K use the tech in all grades. Just not something the Wally World oils are into. 

 

So if I catch that correctly, really there are limited options to use that have the ability to reverse a mess created from too long of an OCI by using Wally World oils. Valvoline R&P being one and as of yet to be proven in real world use with the Mobil Clean. Doesn't HPL have a solution they offer as well as an additive to other oils or a certain oil type that is used as a whole to do a similar job to R&P ? 

[Grumpy Bear]

1 hour ago, Chuck FB said:

 

So if I catch that correctly, really there are limited options to use that have the ability to reverse a mess created from too long of an OCI by using Wally World oils. Valvoline R&P being one and as of yet to be proven in real world use with the Mobil Clean. Doesn't HPL have a solution they offer as well as an additive to other oils or a certain oil type that is used as a whole to do a similar job to R&P ? 

 

The do. HPL EC30 and EC40. Takes time just like any cleaning ester and it is an ester.