long tube vs shorty headers

[2002sierraz71]

Why are long tube headers better "supposedly" than short tube. All the manufacturers I talk to say the only difference is seen above 6k rpms which is ridiculous for a truck motor. Id like to see some stats not just my great uncle focker had a set and he told me they where better. Lets see the numbers.. Torque you

[99Silver6.0]

Why are long tube headers better "supposedly" than short tube.  All the manufacturers I talk to say the only difference is seen above 6k rpms which is ridiculous for a truck motor.  Id like to see some stats not just my great uncle focker had a set and he told me they where better.  Lets see the numbers..     Torque you

 

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More to be had with long tubes. Long tube primaries are longer and aid in scavenging. Shorties will net you power high in the RPM's and thats about it. Long tubes will net you power across the board! Ill dig up some dyno sheets and post them back. Dynos of TOG mid-lengths and ASM long tubes and some lowly Edelbrock shorties.

[jkw]

Why are long tube headers better "supposedly" than short tube.  All the manufacturers I talk to say the only difference is seen above 6k rpms which is ridiculous for a truck motor.  Id like to see some stats not just my great uncle focker had a set and he told me they where better.  Lets see the numbers..    Torque you

 

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in virtually every situation, shorties are a complete waste of money and will net you only negligible gains. if you're going to do it, pay the $ and get some quality long tube headers.

[042500HD]

I personally would go with long tubes...why are shorties always louder than long tubes when it comes to the "tinny sound" headers have.

[02denali]

i know the price is a little scary. it was for me as well. they are very much worth it. it will help you out from 2000 rpm's all the way to 6000.

[dannyukonxl]

long tubes will get about 20 more hp and shorties will get you about... nothing but any who you can decide where you want the power with long tubes, smaller diameter means more low end, bigger, more top end, i think im gonna cut out the pre cats on my yukon and put some 1 7/8 inch long tubes to get some low end juice, i might even do the 1 3/4's for the torque factor

[94z71]

well when you dig up those dyno sheets we're waiting for, you should see neither header does much on the low end on a stock motor. Headers weren't invented for stock motors if you haven't noticed. (I'm pulling these out of a dynosheet for a 94 TBI truck using flowtech shorties btw, not my arse) 1-4 hp/tq from idle-2000 and then 5-13hp increase from midrange to redline. People say you will see a more noticeable low end and all around gain with long tubes, but I don't have dyno sheets so I'm not saying around about long tubes, I had some on a AMC 360 in a jeep, and never had manifolds so I can't compare there either, but they were big and a pain in a small engine bay. My truck sounds meaner than most vortec SFI trucks, those stock vortecs are 2x faster than my TBI (I bet I could beat them off the line if we hooked up some 5000lb trailers) but most of them sure sound like crap with aftermarket exhaust, the worst part is the owner's think it sounds good. Is the truck faster? hell no. I guess it was a fun mod to do since I had nothing to do that day waiting for tech school to start up later in the month. So far, my most noticeable results have been high gas bills.

[99Silver6.0]

well when you dig up those dyno sheets we're waiting for, you should see neither header does much on the low end on a stock motor. Headers weren't invented for stock motors if you haven't noticed. (I'm pulling these out of a dynosheet for a 94 TBI truck using flowtech shorties btw, not my arse) 1-4 hp/tq from idle-2000 and then 5-13hp increase from midrange to redline. People say you will see a more noticeable low end and all around gain with long tubes, but I don't have dyno sheets so I'm not saying around about long tubes, I had some on a AMC 360 in a jeep, and never had manifolds so I can't compare there either, but they were big and a pain in a small engine bay.  My truck sounds meaner than most vortec SFI trucks, those stock vortecs are 2x faster than my TBI (I bet I could beat them off the line if we hooked up some 5000lb trailers) but most of them sure sound like crap with aftermarket exhaust, the worst part is the owner's think it sounds good.  Is the truck faster? hell no. I guess it was a fun mod to do since I had nothing to do that day waiting for tech school to start up later in the month.  So far, my most noticeable results have been high gas bills.

 

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Alrighty dude. Im guessing you dont quite comprehend the characteristics of exhaust gas scavenging. Ive SEEN a dyno of TOG LT's on an LM7 and it DID gain power down low. So now you can head over to Tech and find the dyno sheet threads yourself. Shorties dont gain s**t, waste of money. Flowtechs!?! Those are the crappiest headers you could ever buy. Older TBI motors are alot different than an LSx motor. So you cant compare the two. But hey, when it comes to headers. Run what you want. I know what makes more power and what Im gonna run. Although Im not gonna drop 800 bucks on ASM or TOG long tubes. I just bought a set of Thorley Tri-Y lt's. And I guarantee they will make more power than Flowtechs ever could.

[94z71]

attacked on post #1. thanks. I realize it's a little known fact that full-length headers out perform shorties. I looked into full lengths, but after checking the clearance to the oil filter and driveshaft with my sas, even with my amount of lift, shorties were obviously more suited to my application. I wasn't comparing TBI's to LSx motors, they are two completely different animals, and have different exhaust needs. I didn't say anything about long tubes good or bad, except again, no huge low end gains, and my post more than anything represented how my shorties did not give me any low end gains, especially after modifying the cat and muffler, I'm surprised it gave me the power it did, but I don't see redline much, and that's the only place I ever noticed the difference, shifting in/out of OD is a little more forgiving on hills now. Are these forums for sport trucks only or something? Do you like to jump on everybody who doesn't share your opinion? I haven't seen big low end gains on headers, I'm not just relaying what someone read in their magazines, or what my friends told me, I haven't seen em, so I said I haven't seen them. You said you saw the low end gain, that's fine.... ok dude... relax.

[99Silver6.0]

attacked on post #1. thanks. I realize it's a little known fact that full-length headers out perform shorties. I looked into full lengths, but after checking the clearance to the oil filter and driveshaft with my sas, even with my amount of lift, shorties were obviously more suited to my application. I wasn't comparing TBI's to LSx motors, they are two completely different animals, and have different exhaust needs. I didn't say anything about long tubes good or bad, except again, no huge low end gains, and my post more than anything represented how my shorties did not give me any low end gains, especially after modifying the cat and muffler, I'm surprised it gave me the power it did, but I don't see redline much, and that's the only place I ever noticed the difference, shifting in/out of OD is a little more forgiving on hills now. Are these forums for sport trucks only or something? Do you like to jump on everybody who doesn't share your opinion? I haven't seen big low end gains on headers, I'm not just relaying what someone read in their  magazines, or what my friends told me, I haven't seen em, so I said I haven't seen them.  You said you saw the low end gain, that's fine.... ok dude... relax.

 

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I am relaxed. And on the matter that you feel "attacked" that was not my intention. That post is not my opinion, as you stated, its pretty much factual. Shorties do not react terribly well on LSx motors. And I do understand that shorties are better suited to a certain persons application. And for the price, spend a few more dollars and get long tubes. I dont mean 200-500 dollars more I mean 50-150 more. A good amount of low end can be had with a good set of long tubes. But on the other hand, JBA makes by far the best shorty headers for 99+ NBS trucks.

[2002sierraz71]

Ok Ive got another question, I know Ill have to cut and weld the y pipe will this mess with the 02 sensor and will I

get fault codes. Ive allready intalled intake and exhaust. Im attaching pics. With everything factory I could barely break the tires loose now I can spin them througout first and get a chip on second; I know the bends on the exhaust arent mandible and the high angle looks like it piches off alot of the pipe but it works the job only cost me 230 bucks, fabrication and muffler and I got the tips, sound and where I wanted it to exit. The guy who did the exhaust could weld good god Ive never seen anyone who could lay a bead like that I should have made a close up. Im in NC and have to pass odb II inspections the guy who did the exhaust doesnt want to mess with installing long tubes because of moving the cats from factory position being illegal. what do you guys recommend? I plan on getting a westers tune next

[02denali]

ok now. shorties will gain a max of 10 ponies in great conditions. that is it. mid length will increase even more and long tubes are the tops. yes the long tubes gain power down low. not a whole lot. they do lose a little torque down low but gain some and more up top and in the mid range.i thihnk it depends on the application. if you are going to keep modding and try to go fast as well as use for towing and stuff go long tubes. if you are just wanting to have headers to look cool and not gain much then yay spend 200 or more on shorties. i have had shorties twice. i went to long tubes and i will never go back. and yes they gain power throughout the power band.

[2002sierraz71]

Ive got some good pics how do I post them

[02denali]

go to photobucket.com and start an account. it will have the way to popst them for you/

[2002sierraz71]

here are the pics of the exhaust (nacar truck style)

http://pic15.picturetrail.com/VOL591/27476...42/70468519.jpg

http://pic15.picturetrail.com/VOL591/27476...42/70468517.jpg

http://pic15.picturetrail.com/VOL591/27476...42/70468513.jpg

http://pic15.picturetrail.com/VOL591/27476...42/70468509.jpg

http://pic15.picturetrail.com/VOL591/27476...42/70468506.jpg

http://pic15.picturetrail.com/VOL591/27476...42/70468475.jpg

 

has anybody ever gutted the stock cats (just to look legal) will it still pass odbII emissions? A friend of mine told me he took a rod and just punched the innerds out

my next mod will be headers, I still havent decide on which ones

I want to get the best bang for my buck and not spend over 400.

 

Im also thinking about a larger throttle body, aftermarket airflow and custome tune I can get to 60 in around 8 secs

but the hp seems to give out after about 4k rpm

gm is great but I hate the transmission sometime it will pickup higher rpm shifts and sometimes it wont. the shift points are spuradic