2002 4l80e, Best Treatment Plan?

gman4dx266 · October 17, 2008

Hey all,

Got a 2002 1500HD Silverado, 6.0 LQ4 and the 4L80E MT1

First off, I had the trans rebuilt around 90K with an HD2 shift kit and a 2K stall converter and rebuilt again @ 100K due to a shortcut taken by the rebuilder guy that let some shafts wobble against each other or something (I dont remember what they said). I abuse the hell out of the truck DAILY (wide open at every light) and I believe its ready to have the ATF changed. I have my custom shift pressures set up, so that there is no clutch slip and the thing performs like a raped ape when the trans temp is under 150*F. Above that it loses power, which seems like it maybe something in the torque converter. The torque converter in this thing makes me wonder. If I brake stall for 30 seconds, I can raise the temps 30 to 50*F!!! After that the trans begins to whine. I have installed a large tranny cooler that sits infront of the radiator. My question is, with my abuse on this thing, and the gray looking ATF that is in it now, what kind of care should I do? I want to change the fluid, but should I just drop the pan, replace the filter and go that route, or drop the pan, drain the cooler lines and start the truck, let it pump out while i add in some ATF, and do it that way? Also, which type of fluid should I use to hold up to the heat good?

Genuinefine409 · October 17, 2008

Hey all,

Got a 2002 1500HD Silverado, 6.0 LQ4 and the 4L80E MT1

First off, I had the trans rebuilt around 90K with an HD2 shift kit and a 2K stall converter and rebuilt again @ 100K due to a shortcut taken by the rebuilder guy that let some shafts wobble against each other or something (I dont remember what they said). I abuse the hell out of the truck DAILY (wide open at every light) and I believe its ready to have the ATF changed. I have my custom shift pressures set up, so that there is no clutch slip and the thing performs like a raped ape when the trans temp is under 150*F. Above that it loses power, which seems like it maybe something in the torque converter. The torque converter in this thing makes me wonder. If I brake stall for 30 seconds, I can raise the temps 30 to 50*F!!! After that the trans begins to whine. I have installed a large tranny cooler that sits infront of the radiator. My question is, with my abuse on this thing, and the gray looking ATF that is in it now, what kind of care should I do? I want to change the fluid, but should I just drop the pan, replace the filter and go that route, or drop the pan, drain the cooler lines and start the truck, let it pump out while i add in some ATF, and do it that way? Also, which type of fluid should I use to hold up to the heat good?

After reading this i think the best care you can do for your truck is to park it and leave it sit. j/k. sound like you like to beat the hell out of it so the best thing you can do it use the best fluid you can afford and change it often. if it's changing color before you get to change the fluid, change it sooner. Also, upgrade you cooler for the trans, maybe get one with an electric fan. Sitting still and stalling the converter builds heat very fast and it doesn't take much to burn ATF of any type. Just so you know, it will never hold up to constant abuse.

merlin5577 · October 17, 2008

Drop the pan, clean it out, change the filter and fill it back up with fluid. But start doing it more often. They gray color you are seeing is most likely clutch materials floating around in the fluid. For the amount of work involved flushing the cooler does very little. Use a sythetic ATF like Royal Purple or B&M trick shift and you should be good to go.

gman4dx266 · October 17, 2008

Haha, Cant park it, its my DD.

I think I'm going to put royal purple ATF in there. It says it holds up to heat very well, and I can get 2 gallons of it for about 75$ before tax.

I thought something was wrong with my cooler or something because the first time I stalled the converter, I did it for about 30 seconds or so and put the needle almost in the red on the trans temp (about 250*)

I put some lubegard in the fluid earlier last week to hold me til this weekend, and put a granule of life back into my fluid, and it actually lowered my temps and seemed to improve my tq converters efficiency. I was able to stomp it and peel at a light (never able to do that before on dry pavement) Like I said, I had the 80e built up pretty decently, HD2shift kit, blueplate clutch packs, and all so its not a bad trans, and I know the abuse doesnt help it, but hey...Im in my 20's, and enjoy that kind of stuff just like other guys my age. haha

gman4dx266 · October 17, 2008

Drop the pan, clean it out, change the filter and fill it back up with fluid. But start doing it more often. They gray color you are seeing is most likely clutch materials floating around in the fluid. For the amount of work involved flushing the cooler does very little. Use a sythetic ATF like Royal Purple or B&M trick shift and you should be good to go.

There should be no clutch material at all? I have great line pressure and shifts so firm you're glad its not a regular cab or your head would hit the window. Ive never really taken a good look at the trick shift, although I do sell a decent amount of it (work at a parts store). Im a fan of the RYP stuff though.

I want to run something by you guys as well. Say I go all out and drain the cooler and all that (Even though, like you said merlin, it does very little, given my abuse I want to do all I can) Should I fill it with cheap regular dexIII, and put something like Seafoam TransTune in it as a cleaner to make sure my valvebody is in tiptop shape, then drain that after some driving and refill with good stuff?

96chevy7.4L · October 23, 2008

hey to add to your heat disapation put a derale cooling tube pan. MY 4l80E loves it. If your not familiar with it look it up. Basically there are one inch tubes that run the length of the pan. As the air passes under the truck the air goes through the tubes and cools the fluid even more. Plus it gives you an extra 3 quarts of fluid capacity. Lucas transmission additive will help also. Any questions about the pan PM me and I will send a pic of mine.

MKWL · October 24, 2008

Haha, Cant park it, its my DD.

I think I'm going to put royal purple ATF in there. It says it holds up to heat very well, and I can get 2 gallons of it for about 75$ before tax.

I thought something was wrong with my cooler or something because the first time I stalled the converter, I did it for about 30 seconds or so and put the needle almost in the red on the trans temp (about 250*)

I put some lubegard in the fluid earlier last week to hold me til this weekend, and put a granule of life back into my fluid, and it actually lowered my temps and seemed to improve my tq converters efficiency. I was able to stomp it and peel at a light (never able to do that before on dry pavement) Like I said, I had the 80e built up pretty decently, HD2shift kit, blueplate clutch packs, and all so its not a bad trans, and I know the abuse doesnt help it, but hey...Im in my 20's, and enjoy that kind of stuff just like other guys my age. haha

Dude- I'm 18 and I don't beat on my truck like that- you're just asking for problems trying to stall an automatic truck. I'd say- change the fluid often and STOP BEATING ON YOUR POOR TRUCK!

2000DV4.8 · October 24, 2008

Haha, Cant park it, its my DD.

I think I'm going to put royal purple ATF in there. It says it holds up to heat very well, and I can get 2 gallons of it for about 75$ before tax.

I thought something was wrong with my cooler or something because the first time I stalled the converter, I did it for about 30 seconds or so and put the needle almost in the red on the trans temp (about 250*)

I put some lubegard in the fluid earlier last week to hold me til this weekend, and put a granule of life back into my fluid, and it actually lowered my temps and seemed to improve my tq converters efficiency. I was able to stomp it and peel at a light (never able to do that before on dry pavement) Like I said, I had the 80e built up pretty decently, HD2shift kit, blueplate clutch packs, and all so its not a bad trans, and I know the abuse doesnt help it, but hey...Im in my 20's, and enjoy that kind of stuff just like other guys my age. haha

Dude- I'm 18 and I don't beat on my truck like that- you're just asking for problems trying to stall an automatic truck. I'd say- change the fluid often and STOP BEATING ON YOUR POOR TRUCK!

+1. Age has nothing to do with it. But if you've got the bank account to pay for it, do whatever the hell you want to the truck.

EDIT: Hey Matt, where you at in Jersey?

MKWL · November 3, 2008

Haha, Cant park it, its my DD.

I think I'm going to put royal purple ATF in there. It says it holds up to heat very well, and I can get 2 gallons of it for about 75$ before tax.

I thought something was wrong with my cooler or something because the first time I stalled the converter, I did it for about 30 seconds or so and put the needle almost in the red on the trans temp (about 250*)

I put some lubegard in the fluid earlier last week to hold me til this weekend, and put a granule of life back into my fluid, and it actually lowered my temps and seemed to improve my tq converters efficiency. I was able to stomp it and peel at a light (never able to do that before on dry pavement) Like I said, I had the 80e built up pretty decently, HD2shift kit, blueplate clutch packs, and all so its not a bad trans, and I know the abuse doesnt help it, but hey...Im in my 20's, and enjoy that kind of stuff just like other guys my age. haha

Dude- I'm 18 and I don't beat on my truck like that- you're just asking for problems trying to stall an automatic truck. I'd say- change the fluid often and STOP BEATING ON YOUR POOR TRUCK!

+1. Age has nothing to do with it. But if you've got the bank account to pay for it, do whatever the hell you want to the truck.

EDIT: Hey Matt, where you at in Jersey?

I'm over in Saddle River (up at college in Cobleskill, NY at the moment)- you?

2000DV4.8 · November 3, 2008

I'm over in Saddle River (up at college in Cobleskill, NY at the moment)- you?

I'm in Hopewell Twp, bout a half hour south of the Somerville Circle.

gman4dx266 · November 3, 2008

Short update on the trans:

Took the pan down, and had a LOT of sludge and metal around the magnet. About 4 days later or so, the thing started slipping badly on the highway. Just cruising around 80 or so it would be find, but if you pull out to pass and just add a tiny bit of throttle into it the revs would shoot way up. Anyways, I have had this trans rebuilt twice, the 2nd time because the guy that built it at the shop didnt put a center support bushing in it, which made it burn up (the guy ended up getting fired for doing that alot; making pure profit)

Anyhow, It *STILL* turns out, even after that 2nd free rebuild, I didnt *exactly* get what I was lead to believe I was getting for a 'rebuild'. I pulled the build sheet (late, i know) to check the numbers and investigate what was put in there. They basically put in a stock torque converter, and told me it was a heavy duty towing deal. Negative; its a GM 24219-330. They also put in a 'Banner Kit' which is the cheapest kit you can put in there. It replaces clutches, but no steels between them. Great. Thats like putting top of the line brake pads on a car with warped rotors. And the TransGo HD2 I paid for...yeah...nevermind. It has always shifted like it had swamp mud in there for fluid.

All that leads me to my next point. I tracked down a 4L80E from an 2003 HD truck, complete with torque converter. Only thing wrong with it, is that 1st to 2nd slips a tiny bit. I got the whole thing for 400$, which i consider to be a WONDERFUL price considering the only one i could find on the junkyard system around here within 400 miles is about 200 mi away with a cracked case, and they want 985$ for it. yikes!

So I plan to build this up like a mofo during the Christmas holidays. Alto Red Eagle clutches, kevlar bands (reverse & forward), new steels, 2 new shift solenoids, pressure solenoid, tcc solenoid, the harness, TransGo HD2....basically the whole 9 yards. I *WILL* have this done right this time. I bought me the ATSG book, and it looks decently easy to rebuild, so wish me luck.

I appreciate all the help and comments!

95Sierra2500 · November 3, 2008

Dude...I'm going to be very serious and then never tell you what I think again.

What you were given for a rebuild was probably a 'stock' rebuild since that's what they thought you meant by HD. Did you tell them you stall the converter at every light and take off with your foot to the floor all the time? If you had, they probably would have turned you away and denied you a warranty. If I were your trans guy and found this out, I'd throw you and your transmission out of my shop. Transmissions are generally NOT built to take that kind of abuse, particularly an automatic transmission. Due to their design they are overall weaker than a manual trans (ever wonder why most pro dragsters have manual transmissions?) and will fall apart under that kind of abuse.

As for what's going on, you're heating the fluid like you're taking a torch to the trans when you stall the converter - you're not pumping fluid, just shearing it and creating ALOT of friction heat. Once that hot fluid gets pumped through your trans, it's destroying the clutches. As this condition gets worse, it allows your trans to start to slip while you stall it, accelerating the damage.

No cooler or rebuild in the world is going to help you if you keep abusing your trans like this. And eventually, your trans shop is going to find out what you're doing - either by seeing you do it or intuitively by looking at the parts. However, if you've got the cash to keep throwing at your transmission, by all means, keep it up - just don't take that trans shop down with you, because frankly, they've done nothing wrong.

gman4dx266 · November 3, 2008

I understand what you're saying, but they HAVE done something wrong. They charged me for a TCI converter, and it has a GM stock high-stall converter in there. (TCI part # right next to the GM one, and the GM one is in the truck- ive looked) I did not pay for a stock rebuild. I told them my future plans for this truck, and they agreed to beef it up. I made sure they understood that it gets a decent amount of abuse, and they said they build race transmissions all the time, since pretty much everyone here in south alabama races on saturday nights at one of the local dragways or racetracks. At the time, i knew very little to nothing about autos or how they worked. From all the LS1 car guys, they swap STOCK 4L80's with just a shift kit into their twin charged cars that put out 800 and 900 horse and have lasted years. 4000 stall and the whole deal. Infact I know a guy that works at another transmission shop around the corner of where I work, who runs an old Nova with a 4L80 and external control box. The only thing he has done besides a shift kit in it, is a kevlar front band. He runs meth injection and a blower on it. My point is, the parts that are on the build sheet are not in the transmission. I paid for a beefed up slip yoke. The one that they put in there is a rusty old Spicer; may even be the stock one that came in there. Like I said, I dont know and cant say for sure on some things it is just one of those things you know deep down. It was a $2700 rebuild job, and I figured that would be on par for a beefed up trans that will hold up to atleast a half-thousand horsepower which should be no sweat, not a stock rebuild. That is another story I dont care to get into though. I have heard many complaints from other people, even the transmission parts dealer here, about that shop and what they do.

Anyways, I am going to try my luck at building like I said. I appreciate you being blunt with me, 95Sierra2500. I was aware of everything you said (and you are correct). But in short, I made them aware that I was going to 'charge this truck in the future or put it on a bottle, and they said okay and noted it down.

By the way, a side question: Where would that metal come from that is on the pan magnet? Just something like the edges of the planetaries or what? I know its not clutch material. Maybe parts of the steels?

Draenor · November 3, 2008

This is what you need. It should last a while.

I made sure they understood that it gets a decent amount of abuse, and they said they build race transmissions all the time, since pretty much everyone here in south alabama races on saturday nights at one of the local dragways or racetracks. ... From all the LS1 car guys, they swap STOCK 4L80's with just a shift kit into their twin charged cars that put out 800 and 900 horse and have lasted years. 4000 stall and the whole deal. Infact I know a guy that works at another transmission shop around the corner of where I work, who runs an old Nova with a 4L80 and external control box. The only thing he has done besides a shift kit in it, is a kevlar front band. He runs meth injection and a blower on it. ...

If you flog a transmission at every chance you get, it will get destroyed. No matter how beefed up it is. These guys running running them in the LS cars are most likely not running them in the same way you are. Yes ,you can run 900 horses out of the transmission, but not at every chance they get. If they do it will destroy the trans. If you go to the track, watch guys that run trans brakes. They get pissed if they are kept at the tree too long. The reason, the heat build up is rising fast, and they are burning up the transmission(as Tim described).

The people who do this regularly or professionally rebuild these transmissions often. Not trying to tell you wrong, just don't want you to get false impression out any transmission, even if it is a FLT Lvl5.

By the way, a side question: Where would that metal come from that is on the pan magnet? Just something like the edges of the planetaries or what? I know its not clutch material. Maybe parts of the steels?

Clutches,steels,bands...It a combination....

gman4dx266 · November 3, 2008

That FLT you link to is pretty much what I am going to build anyways haha.

I guess can use the money I win off late night street races to keep rebuilding the transmission. I love the way the 4L80 shifts consistently and obeys what I have tuned in, unlike the many 4L60's Ive had and gone through. The big joke among my friends is "maybe he should buy an Allison" Of course, parts for those are 3x as much and the weight is 3x as much as well. The truck squats the springs when you nail it anyways, the last thing I need is more weight to leverage backwards. hah :-P

I appreciate the insights! Thanks!