1500 5.3 Vs 2500hd 6.0 Towing 7k Lbs

music · October 6, 2009

We upgraded (upsized) campers this year and are now near 7k lbs loaded on the camper. Overall stats are as follows:

TV: 08 1500 Crew 5.3/4spd/3.73 Z71 4wd

Camper: 6900 lbs loaded, tongue ~950 lbs, total combined weight (everyone/everything) = 13k lbs

Weighed on CAT scales, payload and tongue weights are right at the truck ratings. Overall, I'd say that the combination handles/pulls well, but I feel that it's right at the "point" between staying with the 1500/5.3 or moving to 2500HD/6.0. I've also considered the Tundra as kind-of an "in between" option, but it doesn't help with (rated) payload. The obvious benefits of the 5.3 are day-to-day driving and economy, whereas the 2500HD will (I think) handle the camper much better with much less wear/tear from the weight. I've recently been considering doing a few things to the 1500 to help with handling (E tires for example), but think I should consider the pros/cons of a 2500 before spending money on trying to improve the 1500.

Opinions and input are appreciated.

markw8 · October 6, 2009

You won't be unhappy if you go to a 2500. Especially with the 6.0. A question. Why would the Tundra be an improvment on what you have. It might have about 40 more CIs than your 5.3, but pushrod motors usually make more torque, at lower RPM, where you need it for towing. The Tundra has overhead cams. They make more HP at higer RPM, but at the expense of torque were you need it.

Mark.

thearborbarber · October 6, 2009

How far are your towing trips and how frequent? Do you use a weight distributing hitch?

Load range D or E tires are a good start. Also an additional tranny cooler could help.

Stepping up the maintenance schedule and changing the fluids more often would help.

Another consideration is that the combo doesn't leave you any room for expansion. IF you start hauling more with the camper or get a bigger camper you might be overloaded.

music · October 6, 2009

You won't be unhappy if you go to a 2500. Especially with the 6.0. A question. Why would the Tundra be an improvment on what you have. It might have about 40 more CIs than your 5.3, but pushrod motors usually make more torque, at lower RPM, where you need it for towing. The Tundra has overhead cams. They make more HP at higer RPM, but at the expense of torque were you need it.

Mark.

The Tundra 5.7/6-spd puts out about 25% more torque/hp across most of the rpm range. It really does pull hard. The shortcoming there is that I need the crew cab, and the Tundra Crew has even a bit less payload than the Sierra 1500. The Tundra tow pkg also comes standard with a 10.5" ring gear diff and large, 4-wheel disc brakes. So, it has some benefits, but it doesn't have the frame, axles, hubs, springs, etc. of the HD trucks, so it's easy to go over payload before really tapping into the extra power.

music · October 6, 2009

How far are your towing trips and how frequent? Do you use a weight distributing hitch?

Load range D or E tires are a good start. Also an additional tranny cooler could help.

Stepping up the maintenance schedule and changing the fluids more often would help.

Another consideration is that the combo doesn't leave you any room for expansion. IF you start hauling more with the camper or get a bigger camper you might be overloaded.

Most trips are local, with one long distance (over 500 miles) each year. We're planning a trip "out west" in the next year or two, so that will be a **long** trip. I use a Reese dual-cam WD hitch w/ 1200 lb bars. I posted a thread a little while back on the truck forum ( http://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=102294 ) asking about options for improving my 1500. I had convinced myself to try to avoid a 2500HD... until now. After thinking about what I should do to prep the 1500 for better stability, I had to seriously ask myself why I wasn't just looking harder at a 2500 (other than $).

A key issue that I'm now thinking about is stability, rather than power. I started off worrying about power and gearing in the mountains "out west", but realized that wasn't my biggest concern. Braking, stability, and cooling are much more important.

So, a key question is: how much better will a 2500HD handle our camper than my current 1500, if I were to put LT tires on the 1500?

FargoZ71 · October 6, 2009

I'm sure i'm over weight but I pull my brothers 10,000 pound skidsteer trailer quiet a bit.. My truck does have disks all around, but stops alright..

Key to stoping any good size trailer on any pickup is obviously control, but don't overlook a stand-alone trailer brake module.

My brothers 3500 HD ram crew/ sb with the cummins tows his trailer around like theres nothing there. So my next opinion since I love diesels.. is to look at a 2500hd /w a Duramax for additional power and way better fuel milage when loaded near capacity. I get about 9mpg @ 65 with the trailer, he gets around 13.5-15 on the highway.

music · October 6, 2009

Key to stoping any good size trailer on any pickup is obviously control, but don't overlook a stand-alone trailer brake module.

Yes, I use a Prodigy controller and rely on the trailer brakes. In the mountains, I'd feel more comfortable with the heavier HD brakes... just in case something happened to the wiring, etc, but (normally) you prefer that the trailer help stop you rather than the other way around.

Rat4go · October 6, 2009

Driven both, towed similar trailers with both. If you were comparing a 5.3L with a 6-speed to a HD with a 6-speed, I'd tell you to stay with the 5.3L as I really like the way the 5.3L tows with the 6-speed.

Going from your 4-speed 5.3L to a 6.0L/6-speed, you'll appreciate the stiffer truck when towing, and wish you still had the 5.3L when empty. You'll appreciate the grade braking that comes with the 6-speed, and I think the 6-speed has a better chance of finding the right gear to not rev the snot out of the motor but still maintain speed and not be shifting all the time.

I think you could say many of the same things about the 5.3L with 6-speed and I read somewhere that a 2009 5.3L CCSB PU is rated at 15K GCW "when properly equipped". I towed at about 14K with a 5.3L/6-speed for a few hundred miles and it was pretty decent so long as the hills weren't too steep. (rolling hills were fine, but I can imagine that towing thru the Rockies might work it harder, especially in the thin air) The 6.0L/6-speed HD did better at the same total weight, but it was a different axle (3.42 for LD and 3.73 with HD) and has more motor. While the route wasn't identical, the 6.0 was a bit thirstier when towing as well as when empty. Big advantage to me with the HD is a REAL pickup box length, but that extra 10" of truck length does make a noticible difference in a crowded parking lot.

Towing shorter distances (500miles round trip or less) and less than 10x per year on flatter terrain below 5000 ft, I'd almost suggest you see if you can find a 5.3L 6-speed with a bit more rated capacity than your current truck AND better empty fuel econ than both your current truck and the HD AND a better empty truck ride than the HD. Towing more often than that or on steep hills and the HD might not be a bad option.

Hope this helps!

music · October 6, 2009

Hope this helps!

Helps a lot. Thanks for the input! I left the 5.3/6-spd out of the mix simply because it's more of an incremental change over the 4-spd. Your experience on that is helpful. That said, what about "stability". Safety and towing "comfort" are pretty important, and that will be the same whether a 4L60 or 6L80. Do you feel that the 2500HD provides a marked improvement in towing stability at this weight, or would E tires and matching shocks on my 1500 perform similarly? Also, braking and emergency handling come into my mind with the family on-board. I've driven 2500HD trucks and know what the ride/economy is like: no comparison to my 1500 for day-to-day driving/parking/handling, but I've never towed with one.

TAG290 · October 6, 2009

It will cost you a little more but you will like the 2500HD 6.6 Duramax Diesel much more. I was pulling a 30 ft. 5th wheel with a 5.3 and it did a good job but struggled on the hills. In 2006 I bought a new GMC Seirra 2500HD diesel and then moved up to a 38 ft 5th wheel with a dry weight over 11,000 lbs. and it is almost like you are not towing anything. I get 20 to 21 mpg and when I am towing the 5th wheel it gets 10 to 10 1/2 mpg.

Kenbow · October 6, 2009

Split the difference and add a 6.0 to the 1500, with the max towing package, my buddy has one and that truck is a beast, the mileage is not bad with the variable displacement feature.

FargoZ71 · October 7, 2009

Seems to me your looking for a new pickup for some reason..

3-4 different posts.. getting about the same information..

If you are content and happy with your 32 foot trailer, are not going to put your family at risk by hauling ass pulling that kind of load through the mountains i say just stick with your pickup. If your looking to upgrade the trailer later on then ya I can see all of your interest in the HD 2500. But all honesty I know we've said it before.. but you really cant beat a Dmax, Bigger upfront costs, comes with everything you can possibly need, safety galore, but one thing your over looking I think is resale value. Slap 150k miles on a 2500 HD /w 6.0L and your trucks not worth much, Slap 150k on a Dmax /w Allison and your still going to get a good chunk for it.

Content with your 1500 & 32 foot trailer. Get ....

-Tune

-Aux oil / tranny coolers(upgraded)

-Helper bags

-Possibly Load range E tires

-Keep it at a good rate of speed and use your head, the truck can handle it, but will the driver allow it?

Not content or might upgrade trailers..

- Dmax /w Allison and be done with it, If you go with your 6.0l your truck will be better but your still gonna be looking at a tune / upgrade the punny tranny cooler.

My 2 cents, You want a bigger truck.

music · October 7, 2009

Seems to me your looking for a new pickup for some reason..

I hadn't realized that it came across that way... it really isn't intended. I really like the 1500 Sierra "as is", but wouldn't mind a little better stability and power (or better gearing) when towing. The 5.3/4-spd/3.73 can pull our camper all day in moderate to rolling hills in 3rd @ 60 mph, but going through a place like WV, it's going to spend the day going from 2nd to 3rd over and over at 55 mph. Torque and the 6-spd are the only reason I looked at the Tundra, since it can be had without special order (plenty of used ones actually). It's very possible that a tune will help hold 3rd on more hills, but I don't really "know".

Content with your 1500 & 32 foot trailer. Get ....
-Tune

-Aux oil / tranny coolers(upgraded)

-Helper bags

-Possibly Load range E tires

-Keep it at a good rate of speed and use your head, the truck can handle it, but will the driver allow it?

That's about what my list looks like so far for the "keep my truck and improve it for towing" option... well, except for the "will the driver allow it" In fact, the "reason" for this "what about the 2500 instead" thread, is that I didn't want to start putting time/$ into upgrading the 1500, just to find out that I should have just put that money towards a 2500 to begin with. Most of what I'm hearing is that it's highly likely that these changes *will* make a substantial difference and that I don't need a 2500.

music · October 7, 2009

As for the Dmax/Allison option, I'd have to learn a lot more about it. I know it's a hoss and will run longer than the truck can carry it, but know nothing about maintenance, etc. on a turbo-diesel system. For a 7k lb (fully loaded) camper, it may be hard to justify.

HDcarpenter · October 7, 2009

Pulling a trailer - I don't know how much the Tundra will actually run in 6th gear.... My buddy bought a 1500 that had pulled a 30' fifth wheel and the transmission is crap now. I don't know how heavy it was, but the overall rig was pretty close to the top numbers and the tranny bounced up and down gears so much it ended up shelling itself out more or less. Two warranty trips to the shop later - they just put in a new tranny for free.

The beefier tranny (4L80E in mine) in the 2500, the 4.10 gears plus the added torque of the 6.0 is just a better combination for pulling. The extra weight in the frame and the free floating or semi-free floating rear axle (depending on model) will help you from being "pushed around" by you're camper or whatever. I've pulled upwards of 16,000lbs which is way over and I still stayed in front with no problem. and the 4 big disc brakes definately help.

One distinction between a 2500HD and a standard 2500 is a little more than just the extra tow package. the 2500HD has a heavier/stronger frame and a larger payload/tongue weight on the truck. There's a few more differences that I can't remember, but that's one that makes a big difference in towing.

You can add overload springs to your 1500 and that will help with the handling and the tongue weight. A good set is around $150 US.

I have to agree with Fargo - 150k is a value drop big time on these trucks.