Towing with 6.0 Engine? Or Do I Really Need A Diesel?

Hockeylover86 · January 29, 2016

Maybe in terms of speed down the highway, but you have to look at several variables. Like the individual gear ratios in the transmission combined with the diff ratio. There is solid reasoning why the 2015 2500HD 6.0L won the Golden Hitch Award for how it did, grossing a combination weight of 20,500 lb. Now that weight there would kill a F-150 quickly. Torque at the flywheel is one thing. Torque actually making it to the ground is another.

Folks look only at OEM charts and such and see impressive numbers and automatically assume that one engine will pull better than another. The real world is something else. This is not an apples to apples comparison, but the analogy is viable. I have a 12.7L Series 60 Detroit in my semi truck. 500 HP and 1650 lb torque. With similar loads and gross combination weights, I am pulling right with Detroit DD15's and Cummins ISX's (both 15L motors) that are putting down a similar 500 HP, but have 1850 or higher torque ratings. It is all in how the motor sweet spot for maximum efficiency is matched thru the trans and diff ratios that determine how well it will perform. And while my old factory rebuilt model year 2000 Series 60 is staying with or beating these newer motors with their higher torque, I am also getting roughly 20% better fuel economy with it than the general freight OTR trucking sector national averages. In real estate it is all about location, location, location. In towing, it is all about spec'ing, spec'ing, spec'ing. With a close to ideal combination, you can almost move mountains.

just because the L96 6.0L is not cutting edge anymore, does not mean it won't still hold it's own with many of the new kids on the block. it is a very reliable, long lasting, cost effective motor. There are thousands of these that have seen severe service with fleets and gone above 300,000 miles without a major problem. And GM did a pretty good job with it. The exhaust system is darn near perfect, except for the trash can muffler. Great intake and exhaust flow. And the 6L90 combined with 4.10 is a good match up for the motor. Even the Dmax equipped 2500 on the same Ike Gauntlet test bested the 6.0L by only 2.5 minutes. That either says the Dmax is not up to par or the 6.0L is no slouch ( I opt for that latter ). And the 6.0L beat the Ram 6.4 2500 by 1.5 minutes on the test.

Now, diesel is averaging equal to or lower than gas right now. The edge goes to the diesel. But that is not going to last forever. I go thru over 20,000 gallons of diesel a year in my business, and I clearly remember when diesel was well over $1 higher than gas and broke the $5 a gallon threshold. Don't think it can't happen again. Right now, the diesel folks have a distinct advantage. But there is the emissions game with diesels to also consider. As Scotty said one time in a Star Trek movie, "the more complicated you make the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain". And boy, these new diesels are in a league of their own when it comes to complexity regarding the emission junk on them. When it works, it works great. When it falters, it can be a real nightmare. Warranty can take of most of that for a while, but once warranty is over, you might want to consider having some real cash in store if a DPF or SCR unit goes south on one of these. And even under warranty, you can automatically factor in multiple of time longer before pickup is repaired compared to a 6.0L.

Sure, you can remove the emissions junk, but you already laid out thousands more for the diesel, now you are going to shell out a sizable sum to remove the emissions junk, and you just then blew your warranty to pieces. You are totally on your own. And, depending on where you live, if some government hack wanted to make an example of you, the fines can be real harsh.

Tough call. Go with your gut. There are good arguments for both positions. Just go into any decision with eyes wide open. Don't buy into the latest fad or get something just to make a social statement. Use that gray matter between your ears and come to a comfortable decision. Only you know your situation.

Good points, but some apples to oranges too.

The trailer he is talking about is within the specs of the F150 ECO, and I would have no doubt that at altitude the TTV6 could get a better time (out-pull) than the NA 6.0.

But as you also said, its about more than pulling power, its about capability and comfort, and the 6.0L is capable.

HOWEVER, I will take this opportunity to complain than GM hasn't turned up the wick in that gas platform yet, I really think the Ford 6.2 is a better engine, the 6.4 should be, but doesnt seem to be for whatever reason.

I'm ready to jump to a new gas truck whenever one comes out that would make me want to sell my LBZ Duramax, right now there just isn't one...

Cowpie · January 30, 2016

I think that GM is focusing more on it's commercial market with the gasser in the 2500/3500 platforms than the performance user. Most fleets are not trying to get tire ripping performance out of a gasser. And considering that about 3/4 of GM's HD truck sales are to commercial users, it is different reality they are trying to deal with. Those folks want dependability, durability, and longevity. The 6.0L does that in spades. And the gasser outsells the diesel in the commercial markets by several fold. Start messing with stuff, and you can tick off a lot of commercial users and hurt your sales in that market for a long, long time.

From a diesel standpoint, nothing wrong with going that route if one can justify it. The only thing I would do to a diesel is tune out the EGR. I would just leave everything else alone. Just me. Tuning out the EGR is the simplest, cheapest way to eliminate a host of problems that not only affects the motor, but the downstream stuff also. Don't even have to do the delete kit nonsense. Just tune EGR off. No codes, no parts removal, and even the most diligent dealership couldn't tell that anything is different, as long as power settings not changed either.

Hockeylover86 · January 31, 2016

I think that GM is focusing more on it's commercial market with the gasser in the 2500/3500 platforms than the performance user. Most fleets are not trying to get tire ripping performance out of a gasser. And considering that about 3/4 of GM's HD truck sales are to commercial users, it is different reality they are trying to deal with. Those folks want dependability, durability, and longevity. The 6.0L does that in spades. And the gasser outsells the diesel in the commercial markets by several fold. Start messing with stuff, and you can tick off a lot of commercial users and hurt your sales in that market for a long, long time.

From a diesel standpoint, nothing wrong with going that route if one can justify it. The only thing I would do to a diesel is tune out the EGR. I would just leave everything else alone. Just me. Tuning out the EGR is the simplest, cheapest way to eliminate a host of problems that not only affects the motor, but the downstream stuff also. Don't even have to do the delete kit nonsense. Just tune EGR off. No codes, no parts removal, and even the most diligent dealership couldn't tell that anything is different, as long as power settings not changed either.

I disabled my EGR via EFI Live but I also installed the blocker plate to keep it from drifting open just in case.

The DPF is probably alot more reliable now that there is a separate injector for burn-off.

Using the engine injectors to raise EGT's and clean the DPF just wasn't a good idea.

As for justification, thats a personal thing. I drive my truck very few miles a year so fuel costs don't mean a thing to me.

Its up to the individual to drive them and make their own choice, all we can do is share our experiences

Cowpie · January 31, 2016

Well, when I said justify it, that wasn't to imply justifying it to everyone else, just to the person who is cracking open their wallet and buying the vehicle and paying to operate it. It is a personal thing that only each person can answer for themselves. I can't justify going with a diesel in my 2500, but that stems from two aspects.... I don't need it, and I hate vehemently V diesels. I only like inline diesels. Just a personal thing. But Cummins has burned me on two 15L ISX motors, so they can keep their crap to themselves and that leaves Dodge out of the equation. So, I am pretty limited in what is available. It would take a unique situation for me to consider going with a Dmax. Now the 2.8L in the Colorado/Canyon platform is interesting on several levels... it is an inline, and it is based on a motor I have had personal experience with in the past. if it is anything like the VM motor that preceded it, it will be a winner for a lot of folks. Now, if GM would take that approach, bump up the displacement and power numbers on that motor, they could save a grip in R&D and production costs, have a solid motor to make a serious 1/2 ton diesel available.

gmacecsko · August 24, 2016

I just went though this same debate. Ended up trading the 2014 Silverado 1500 5.3 for a 2016 Sierra Denali 2500HD with the Duramax.

At first I thought why bother with the extra expense of the diesel. But if you plan on keeping it a long time the added MPG will make up the difference. According to one of the magazine articles I read it takes about 105,000 miles to break even. So if the plan is to keep the truck a long time you have the extra power and lower fuel costs. And yes I understand that overall maintenance of the diesel will be higher.

Cowpie · August 28, 2016

Diesel is not a bad option for some. As for keeping it a long time, that is relative. The typical 6.0L gasser is easily capable of over 300K miles when maintained properly. Mine is not a primary driver for day to day use, only on an as need basis, primarily for business, and then, it is not the primary vehicle in my business. It logs barely 15K miles a year. At 300K miles it is quite capable of, that is roughly 20 years. Given that it has to deal with the rust belt of the country, primarily is used on rural gravel roads, the chances are pretty good that other issues will be in play than whether the engine will still be ticking. And those issues would be the same for a diesel version.

The lower fuel cost is really not in play. My 2015 6.0L has a lifetime average of 14 mpg at just over 24,000 miles, with road trips typically in the 17+ mpg range. It primarily gets fed E15 fuel (yes E15 not E85). That is running right around $1.95 now. Diesel in my area is running $2.45. At best, fuel cost per mile is a wash, gasser compared to diesel. If we hit the stratosphere prices on fuel we had a few years ago, the gasser will win hands down every day of the week including Sunday. So I would essentially never recover the additional cost of the diesel. In those high priced fuel days, diesel was running almost $5 a gallon, and E85 was a solid $2 a gallon cheaper. Even regular was a full buck cheaper.

Sure, the diesel will offer more power, but for what in my case? I rarely ever tow, and then it is light. I primarily use it for hauling. Sticking five 55 gallon drums of oil, or a ton of building materials in the back of a 1500 is not a pretty picture, so a 2500 is a better choice. And what advantage would their be with diesel in that situation? None that I can tell. I don't have to climb Pike's Peak or something like that. And the gasser offers me a little more actual payload capacity than the diesel. No brainer.

Nothing against diesel. I go thru over 20,000 gallons of diesel fuel a year in my business. Diesel just doesn't have the ooh aah factor for me as it does for some. I use diesel engines where they are applicable and use gas engines where they are a better fit. No ego to bruise, so I don't need the Dmax in my 2500 to impress anyone.

Debra in Cali · September 26, 2016

I just went though this same debate. Ended up trading the 2014 Silverado 1500 5.3 for a 2016 Sierra Denali 2500HD with the Duramax.

At first I thought why bother with the extra expense of the diesel. But if you plan on keeping it a long time the added MPG will make up the difference. According to one of the magazine articles I read it takes about 105,000 miles to break even. So if the plan is to keep the truck a long time you have the extra power and lower fuel costs. And yes I understand that overall maintenance of the diesel will be higher.

I did almost the same thing. I am selling my 2015 Silverado 5.3 Z71 , and already have my2016 Silverado 2500 LTZ Duramax . I thought that the 1500 was a beast. I really feel like that now with the 2500. We plan on buying a 5th wheel trailer in the near future.

Sledge8 · September 28, 2016

Real world experience. I live in Minnesota and primarily tow my 10,000 lb 5th wheel within the state. Mostly flat terrain. My 2015 6.0 does better than my 04 6.0 did. The 2015 plus fine at highway speeds and gets around 9 mpg doing it. This week we are in the Black Hills of SD. Roughly 5000 feet of elevation give or take. There was only one hill that took me down to 2nd gear and really made the truck work hard. No biggie just slower going. The biggest issue I had was on the way out we encountered 40mph head winds and I had to pull in 4th gear to keep speed up and prevent frequent shifting. At one point I was averaging 5 mpg at 3200 rpm. I don't tow that often or in these conditions much so a gas motor makes more sense for me. If you pull frequent and there is any elevation to it maybe a diesel is a better option.

Rvduck · December 6, 2016

I absolutely needed the 760 extra pounds of payload the 6.0 gives me to haul my 5000 pound camper so I had to go with a 6.0 gas engine in my 2016 Silverado Dually. I liked my 08 Duramax Dually , it had a 3700 pound payload, my 16 has a 5700 pound payload. Do I miss the Duramax, no. Do I like my 6.0 gasser. Love it is a better way to describe the truck. I can get a speeding ticket hauling my camper up any grade I have come across so far.

If the 16 Duramax Dually had the same payload as my gasser I would have bought another Duramax. Lucky for me because I saved a bundle of money on the engine so I spent it on the High Country trim and don't have to deal with DPFs and exhaust additive. And WOW, the 7 year bumper to bumper warranty is so much cheaper when you buy a 6.0. I wonder why !!

Debra in Cali · December 6, 2016

I'm starting to think about my next truck purchase, probably within the next year or so. (Although I know when I start thinking I'm in trouble)

I'm currently driving a Ford F150 EcoBoost. Specs on that engine are 365 hp and 420 torque. Looking at the GM 6.0 gas I'm seeing 360hp and 380 torque - led than the little 3.5 6 cyl Ford.

We tow a travel trailer a fair amount of time (25% or so of total miles driven per year). Our current trailer is a load for the F150, just barely under the max. payload recommendation when fully loaded. The engine pulls fine with normal highway stuff, although the mpg's certainly suffer. But we just returned from a couple of weeks in the mountains of the west, and those high elevation passes sure make it grunt.

So I've been thinking (there we go again) a 3/4 ton truck would make sense for me. But to do so with a gas engine means I'd have slightly less power?

Sure, the Chev 2500 would have a more suitable axle ratio. And I like the idea of having a bigger cushion on my payload capacity. But I could buy a new F150 with a better axle ratio, max tow package, and max payload package. That would be an improvement over my current set up, and be fairly well under the recommended payload limits.

A 3/4 ton truck is going to weigh more than my current rig. And the engine has less pulling power. Aren't I going to be awfully disappointed the next time I try to pull over Eisenhower Pass? I'm also not crazy about giving up 5 or 6 MPG during the 75% of the time when I'm not pulling the trailer.

Yes, I know that a diesel would solve all my problems. Except the additional drain of many thousands of dollars from my bank account. And for towing our medium sized 27' travel trailer, a diesel just seems like over kill.

What am I missing?

I was pulling a medium (24 feet ) trailer with my 1500. My gas milage was terrible when towing. We knew that we wanted to upgrade our trailer, so I started doing research on trailers. It was obvious with what we wanted to pull the 1500 wasn't going to cut it. And the trailers that we could tow with the 1500 were cutting it either. So we bit the bullet and bought our duramax. Then we started really looking at trailer and decided that a 5th wheel was really the way to go since you can pull more weight. We love our new trailer and the truck tows it beautifully. I won't go back to a gas engine. But then we are going to be almost full time RVers in the next year or so. So it was way worth the investment for us.

And for the record, the gas milage with the diesel engine pulling the 5th wheel is incredible compared to the 1500 pulling the medium sized trailer.

redwngr · December 7, 2016

All depends what is being done with it.

When towing, the dmax clearly has the advantage.

As rvduck pointed out, for carrying, where payload is key, the 6.0 wins. (by about 750 lbs for the CC dually 4x4 configuration)

For towing 5th wheel capacity on cc duallies 4x4 the 6.6 is the clear leader, (by about 9,300lbs)

The dmax advantage is reduced for ball hitch towing, to about 6400 lbs more than the 6.0. (again using numbers for cc dually 4x4)

Get the right tool for the job. For some jobs, many tools will do.

sdeeter19555 · December 7, 2016

In my opinion there are other situations that the 6.0l bests the DMax, cold weather is one and extended idling is another.

Being able to walk out on a -20F morning, turn the key, drop the truck in drive is nicer than waiting for heating grids and/or glow plugs and/or keeping the thing plugged in...a 700ish watt heater will make a noticeable dent in the electric bill. Not to mention that you always run a chance of fuel gelling and/or filter waxing....not a concern with gasoline.

Most newer diesels don't like extended idling...cylinder wall washdown, plugging of emissions equipment, etc...not an issue with a 6.0l.

I owned a turbo diesel pickup from the late 80s through 2012 when I bought this gasser...those are two things I don't miss.

And the one thing I absolutely do not miss is the smucked up diesel island pumps...no more stained clothes, no more needing gloves to fuel...and don't say you don't know what I'm talking about.

The 6.0l is gutless compared to a turbo diesel, but I snag the same trailer down the road...just a little slower. I've worked this truck magnitudes harder than any turbo diesel I owned previously. Knowing what I know now, I would probably not have bought a diesel in the first place, but it was the thing to own when I had them....the big gasser are making a comeback now...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Debra in Cali · December 7, 2016

And the one thing I absolutely do not miss is the smucked up diesel island pumps...no more stained clothes, no more needing gloves to fuel...and don't say you don't know what I'm talking about.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

I do not know what you are talking about, so do tell. I have filled my diesel fuel tank about 5 times now. Never got diesel fuel on me and what is the issue with the diesel island pumps? I fuel my truck at my local Costco which has the same pump with 2 hoses, one for gasoline and one for diesel.

sdeeter19555 · December 7, 2016

I do not know what you are talking about, so do tell. I have filled my diesel fuel tank about 5 times now. Never got diesel fuel on me and what is the issue with the diesel island pumps? I fuel my truck at my local Costco which has the same pump with 2 hoses, one for gasoline and one for diesel.

Five tankfuls? That would have been ONE day of driving for me, my auxiliary tank held that much fuel...fill up at a truck stop and report back.

That's laughable.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Debra in Cali · December 7, 2016

Five tankfuls? That would have been ONE day of driving for me, my auxiliary tank held that much fuel...fill up at a truck stop and report back.

That's laughable.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Sorry to disappoint you. I haven't had my truck very long. I did add a bigger fuel tank so that we can drive just about a full day without refueling with the new 5th wheel. The new tank hold 57 gallons, so I won't need to fill up as often.

Perhaps I will be using a truck stop on our travels. I have already heard that those pumps dispense fuel at a high rate so they will give you a backlash of fuel. Is that the reason for the stains and the need for gloves?