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Rough Country 3.5” Lift???

Ranger2014

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gearheadesw Senior Enthusiast

gearheadesw

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, rocnrol said:

You are not making the torsion bars "stiffer" to gain the height.

Turning the keys is exactly the same as adding a lift block to leaf springs, which don't get stiffer after the block install.

No additional preload is added by turning the keys.

I'll never understand why this concept is so hard for people to understand

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Sorry, not true. You are twisting the torsion bar when you tighten the torsion bar keys, making it stiffer. Just like your idea of adding a block to the leaf spring, all you’re doing is raising the spring off its block, when you twist the bar, it is now stiffer, it takes more effort, turning the bolt, to make  it keep the front suspension up higher. Add weight to the leaf spring, it’s now stiffer also. 

rocnrol Enthusiast

rocnrol

Posted
Posted
Sorry, not true. You are twisting the torsion bar when you tighten the torsion bar keys, making it stiffer. Just like your idea of adding a block to the leaf spring, all you’re doing is raising the spring off its block, when you twist the bar, it is now stiffer, it takes more effort, turning the bolt, to make  it keep the front suspension up higher. Add weight to the leaf spring, it’s now stiffer also. 
Wrong, and you don't get it

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SierraHD17 Senior Enthusiast

SierraHD17

Posted
Posted

All you are doing is pushing the lower control arm down to a lower starting point.  It really will not take any more force or preload on the bar to get there as the bar was holding the same weight of the truck both before and after adjustment.  In reality does it ride stiffer? Yeah a little bit.  Mostly from your suspension angle change and running the a arms at an angle they weren't intended to be at.  

 

When my upper balljoints in my stock a arms wear out I will do aftermarket arms to correct some of that angle bind.  I might even buy keys and arms for the heck of it to get the truck a little higher in the front and get rid of all the rake. I have bags in the back so I don't worry about weight sag.  I should just do this to the truck now as it's still new underneath and things will come apart nice lol

 

 

SierraHD17 Senior Enthusiast

SierraHD17

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, gearheadesw said:

no, you don't get it, sorry for you loss.

No he isn't wrong...you guys are.  Think of it by load.  You aren't increasing the load on the bar as the trucks weight is identical regardless.  All that is happening is is you are moving the reference point with the bolt and forcing the a arm to start at a different position.  If there is any torsional increase on the bar itself its solely from binding in the front suspension.  

 

You guys are thinking you are somehow adding more preload to the bar but you aren't.  As you rotate the keys themselves the a arms rotate downward lifting the truck up higher.  You say well you are twisting the bar more.  No actually you aren't twisting the bar more because as I said as the key rotates the a arm moves with it giving your ride height change.   If you twisted the key and the bar stayed at a fixed position on a arm end and couldnt move then you would be "twisting the bar" so to speak.  Like I said... its load... where is the load increase coming from? If you think of it like that it starts to make sense.

gearheadesw Senior Enthusiast

gearheadesw

Posted
Posted

So you jack up the truck top adjust the keys, tires are off the ground, you tighten the bolts on the keys, the suspension doesn't move, it's already toped out, you pu the truck back down now it sits higher. The suspension didn't move while the truck was jacked up, so you tighter the bars spring rate up, so now the truck sits higher. The bars are under load, always, you just increased the load, how?

SierraHD17 Senior Enthusiast

SierraHD17

Posted
Posted

You didn't.  Explain how did you?  Suspension is hanging free correct... bars are relaxed.... Now you increase the twist of the bars and in your thinking you just increased the load right as the a arm didn't move.... doesn't matter.  You have no weight on the suspension.  All you did was increase the relaxed position of the suspension so that once load is reapplied to it it can't twist the bar back as far as it once was.  The spring force is still the same at load... just won't relax as far as it once did with no weight on it.  

 

Think of it like this... leave the weight of the truck on it and twist the key.  What moves?  The a arm goes down right.  So what load force did you increase? Nothing.  Where is the additional weight coming from that the spring is working against exactly? That's the only thing that will work the bar is more weight.  So you increase your ride height and the trucks weight goes up?  No lol. 

 

No different than stacking a spacer on top a coilover.

 

It's a simple force vector.  The spring rate has to work against the downward weight of the truck itself.  If you rotate the torsion bar and the a arm rotates with it you haven't changed your spring rate whatsoever.

SierraHD17 Senior Enthusiast

SierraHD17

Posted
Posted

Not to mention you can punch in how does a torsion bar work into any search engine and find the same information I am giving.  

 

The block analogy is about the best one really.  The leaf springs still flex the same amount as they could before... you just moved the axle itself further away no different than if you welded taller spring perches on the housing...

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