Would diesel work for me or stick to gas?

Bo Evans · June 20, 2020

31 minutes ago, Wintersun said:

If you want to save money then slow down. A truck is basically a brick moving through the air and there is 4x as much drag at 80 mph as at 40 mph. My nephew was continually getting speeding tickets and eventually had to go to traffic school. The instructor advised the class to leave the house 5 minutes earlier so there was no need to speed. My nephew took the advice to heart and that was the end of the speeding tickets and also the end of his "accidents" on the road.

Diesel is great for maximum torque if pulling a 10,000 lb or greater tow load. As a daily driver it is the most expensive vehicle you can own. It starts with paying $6,000 more for the engine and then twice as much for batteries and fuel filter changes and oil changes. With a V-8 diesel it costs $5,000 to replace the fuel injectors and this is much more common with diesel engines as diesel fuel is extremely dirty. I have a 2011 Duramax and so know fully well the costs for owning and operating a truck with this engine and its related components.

Most fuel efficient truck is one with a V-6 engine that burns regular gas. It will require far less in maintenance and servicing and be far less likely to need repairs (and very expensive repairs). Gas engines became far more reliable and longer lasting when the oil companies stopped putting lead into gasoline in the 1970's as it had been a cheap way to make it more gasolijne more knock resistant (less prone to pre-ignition).

The truck manufacturers need to meet federal fleet fuel economy numbers and getting customers to buy cars and trucks with diesel engines is a win win for them. The manufacturers get higher fleet average miles per gallon and the cost for the more expensive to own and operated diesel engines is shouldered 100% but the customers. It is one of the better con jobs in recent years.

It is to get away from the high costs of ownership with diesel engines that all the major fleet operators with their trucks are eager to move to electric trucks. With less servicing there is more time spent on the road making money and less need for highly trained diesel mechanics which are very hard to find. Of the five Chevy dealers where I have had work done for problems with my truck's diesel engine, only one of them has a mechanic who can troubleshoot diesel engines.

$6000 more for the engine and twice as much for batteries and oil changes? Not trying to argue here as I own the “diesel” you are speaking of but this thread is not referring to that, it is about the 3.0. Not trying to argue as you have some valid points but also some VERY non valid points.

topgear1224 · June 20, 2020

If you want to save money then slow down. A truck is basically a brick moving through the air and there is 4x as much drag at 80 mph as at 40 mph. My nephew was continually getting speeding tickets and eventually had to go to traffic school. The instructor advised the class to leave the house 5 minutes earlier so there was no need to speed. My nephew took the advice to heart and that was the end of the speeding tickets and also the end of his "accidents" on the road.

Diesel is great for maximum torque if pulling a 10,000 lb or greater tow load. As a daily driver it is the most expensive vehicle you can own. It starts with paying $6,000 more for the engine and then twice as much for batteries and fuel filter changes and oil changes. With a V-8 diesel it costs $5,000 to replace the fuel injectors and this is much more common with diesel engines as diesel fuel is extremely dirty. I have a 2011 Duramax and so know fully well the costs for owning and operating a truck with this engine and its related components.

Most fuel efficient truck is one with a V-6 engine that burns regular gas. It will require far less in maintenance and servicing and be far less likely to need repairs (and very expensive repairs). Gas engines became far more reliable and longer lasting when the oil companies stopped putting lead into gasoline in the 1970's as it had been a cheap way to make it more gasolijne more knock resistant (less prone to pre-ignition).

The truck manufacturers need to meet federal fleet fuel economy numbers and getting customers to buy cars and trucks with diesel engines is a win win for them. The manufacturers get higher fleet average miles per gallon and the cost for the more expensive to own and operated diesel engines is shouldered 100% but the customers. It is one of the better con jobs in recent years.

It is to get away from the high costs of ownership with diesel engines that all the major fleet operators with their trucks are eager to move to electric trucks. With less servicing there is more time spent on the road making money and less need for highly trained diesel mechanics which are very hard to find. Of the five Chevy dealers where I have had work done for problems with my truck's diesel engine, only one of them has a mechanic who can troubleshoot diesel engines.

that's because you were using an engine that's designed to be basically permanently attached to a trailer in the wrong way. back in the day you could almost justify the diesels in the heavy duty trucks but nowadays they makes so much power and the only way to make power is with more fuel. highway MPG is basically the same as the gas motors. Gone are the days of 25+ MPG. Unless you are making money from towing loads every single day L5P simply doesn't make sense financially.

On to the 1500.

The first thing I want to point out is that the diesel and the 6.2 are both premium engines at exactly the same cost. So anybody that's considering the 3.0 should in theory be cross-shopping it with the 6.2.

the question you should be asking yourself is do you want to save at the pump, or do you want to accelerate so quickly that you realize that you need to spend the $4,000 on the premium brembo brake package from GM. ( Stock brake pads seriously lack biting power) oil changes will cost exactly the same as the gas trucks. The oil filter in fact is from the 2.7.

As long as you don't do something crazy like pay the extreme upcharge for buying a filter at the dealer and just order one off of Amazon. Nothing is prohibitively expensive on this vehicle I think the most expensive filter is the fuel filter.

I know diesels need good fuel filters but this truck has a fuel filter meter and it doesn't do it based off of mileage it actually does it based on pressure drop. This means you won't end up replacing the filter excessively.

Onto your V6 theory this is the first generation where the base V6 kind of makes sense. KIND OF. The base V6 is actually a really good engine mainly because it's fleet spec. the throttle pedal actually responds and the transmission is nice and quick to downshift. If you only did City driving the V6 would be the best.

but really it depends on where you live for instance I'm originally from Arizona it may have a speed limit on that freeway of 65 through town but we're actually going to be doing about 80. and before you say "oh well if I'm in the way they can just go around!!!" people in Arizona are notorious for cutting you off and hit-and-runs. so you can play that game if you want to but if they decide to slam into you and move you out of the way they're probably not going to stop.

I have now driven three engines for extended period of time on this chassis.

The 5.3 is a Torque engine but compared to the competitors it just doesn't make sense. It just really falls on its face at high RPM. GM forces the engine to rev way higher than it naturally would in order to hit a horsepower number instead of for instance restricting it to 5000 RPM which is where the torque basically stops. Where this really shows is when you need to do 55 to 85 to perform a pass while loaded. 20mpg @ 55 mph.

The 3.0 is by far the smoothest engine in the lineup without AFM/DFM you never get any weird vibrations. The torque is awesome and the fact that I'm only getting 1 to 2 MPG less average in the same type of driving then my Fiesta ST is huge. if you're not in a hurry or you live in an area with 55 mph speed limit on the highway you can easily exceed the 30 mpg mark. That's 50% higher than either the 5.3 or the 4.3. when fuel inevitably goes back up, this is going to make a huge difference. I can easily exceed 600 mi on 24 gallons of fuel. The 3.0 also comes with a 40k mile longer powertrain warranty! it is normally considered to be financially reckless to have a loan that extends out further than your warranty. The only thing I don't like is at 10th gear is basically useless in 90% of the 3.0 is that are sold. 10th gear the lowest it can engage on a 3.23 truck with 33 inch all terrains is 70mph and at that speed up shifting puts the engine under so much load that you actually don't see your fuel economy improvement going from 9th to 10th this means that you're basically paying for improvements that you're not going to see. the trick here is to get an LT off-road package truck with 3.73s. the fuel economy that you are going to achieve is going to be exactly the same in fact in some situations it might be better as you're not pulling the engine down is hard. It also really makes a difference for in gear acceleration especially when loaded. the exhaust brake only generates approximately 12 to 13 lb of boost with 3.23s it's not really enough negative torque to control the load, with 3.73s it's like a completely different truck going down the hills.

The 4.3 liter V6 if you tow less than 7700 lb I usually recommend this engine particularly in the custom trim 4x4. you get 33s from the factory, you have most of what you would want, other than the lack of center console storage, you can swap with the work truck to obtain, and the stereo being horrendous but in all fairness the Bose "premium" system is worse than most base systems. Compared to my GMC elevation the loaner would have cost $15,000 less.
the issue with that engine though fuel economy!! the absolute best that I could attain at 54 mph cruise was 20mpg. And the engine began to really struggle once the needle swept past 60. At a 78 mph cruise we were averaging 15!!! That's a problem! that's big block freeway MPG!!! (My 2500HD 8.1/Allison gets that)
now if you're comparing the base V6 to the 3.0 $15,000 does buy a lot of fuel and the base V6 would make a ton of sense.

The V6 drives, and I cannot understate this enough, leaps and bounds better than the 5.3, 3.0 or even the 6.2 from a response standpoint. you move your foot and the truck immediately downshifts and goes. none of this weird dead pedal waiting for power BS that all the other engines do. The transmission is swift and deliberate with shifts, and my personal favorite is if you pull it down in L, for instance you're slowing down with a trailer, and pushed the down arrow all the way to L1 as you slow the the vehicle will blip the throttle and perform perfect rev-match downshift all the way down to 1st gear allowing you to focus on braking. the 10-speed will only kick down to the lowest available gear and then you have to continue to push the down button while slowing down in order to get it to kick down.

Ultimately I chose it because I average 20k miles a year putting me right at 100k after 5 years. Mine certainly isn't perfect, but there's nothing that would make me go to the other brands diesels. I had no idea that I was going to get this fantastic of fuel economy. Everything that I was shopping was the same price so it's not like I paid a "premium" for going with the diesel.

although I do wish that I would have expanded the budget a little more and gone with the Denali due to the magnetic Ride control. Alaska roads are like an off-road course at 65 miles an hour. x31 it's certainly not a perfect suspension package but there's certain things it does really really good and things that it is really really bad. one of the things that really struggles with is body control under big lumps on the highway. The base 4x4 suspension package is a little jiggly at low speeds but as you pick the speed up it definitely has a ton more control in the same situations. MRC solves all those problems.

if all you care about is money you shouldn't even be shopping for a new truck anyways. But if you insist on new, a base 4 door work truck 2wd will save you a ton of cash. But most people don't want to drive a penalty box.

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Wiggums · June 21, 2020

I have the 5.3 RST 4x4 and I get around 22 mpg going 70 mph.

Right now, I see $5,000 off diesels and cheapest one around here is an LT with MSRP of $53,215, priced at $47,715. I see a $6,500 off petrol and cheapest one around here is an LT with MSRP of $42,495, priced at $35,995.

That's a $11,000 difference. Let's say the 2.7L petrol gets 25 mpg and diesel gets 30 mpg. Incidentally, petrol and diesel are both priced the same at $2.89 a gallon. Let's say OP drives 20,000 miles a year... my Excel spreadsheet says the fuel for diesel diesel will cost $1,926 whilst the petrol version will cost $2,408. A $482 difference every year for an initial investment of $11,000 in a diesel. Hardly worth it if you ask me...

Edited: Sorry, it was 2.7 petrol, not 5.3 V8. So the amount saved is even less since 2.7 yields better fuel economy than the 5.3.... so I had to change a few things around....

Bo Evans · June 21, 2020

1 hour ago, Wiggums said:

I have the 5.3 RST 4x4 and I get around 22 mpg going 70 mph.

Right now, I see $5,000 off diesels and cheapest one around here is an LT with MSRP of $53,215, priced at $47,715. I see a $6,500 off petrol and cheapest one around here is an LT with MSRP of $42,495, priced at $35,995.

That's a $11,000 difference. Let's say the V-8 gets 20 mpg and diesel gets 30 mpg. Incidentally, petrol and diesel are both priced the same at $2.89 a gallon. Let's say OP drives 20,000 miles a year... my Excel spreadsheet says the fuel for diesel diesel will cost $1,926 whilst the petrol version will cost $2,890. A $963 difference every year for an initial investment of $11,000 in a diesel.

Not a pissing match by no means but my 3.0 LTZ 4wd was 43k. You take 5k off that diesel price initially and that changes, not to mention a higher trim level. It all depends on the price you pay. I have gas vehicles and diesel vehicles and have had MANY of them and they both have their place. I am curious if the 3.0 will carry a higher value like other diesels.

jnissen · June 22, 2020

I picked up my LT with the 3.0 for under 39,500 after discounts. Costco saved me $1000.00 alone. It had the bed liner, AC outlets, and the leather interior. Not a huge number of options but it is what I was looking for.

Been getting 30MPG on A round trip to work and back. Mix of city and highway driving. My prior vehicle, Honda Odyssey, would be lucky to get 18MPG. I didn’t buy the truck for the mileage but more because I wanted a vehicle that was efficient but can tow and haul when required. I have a dual axle trailer I haul and the truck barely feels it back there. A significant change from the Honda.

Wiggums · June 22, 2020

1 hour ago, Bo Evans said:

Not a pissing match by no means but my 3.0 LTZ 4wd was 43k. You take 5k off that diesel price initially and that changes, not to mention a higher trim level. It all depends on the price you pay. I have gas vehicles and diesel vehicles and have had MANY of them and they both have their place. I am curious if the 3.0 will carry a higher value like other diesels.

I am sorry.. I realised my error.. I did not have the option to choose engine size, just diesel or petrol. I just revised my post to reflect it was a 2,7 litre, not the 5.3 after going back to read the listing more thoroughly.

My method was to sort it by price, pick only 4x4 in a 200-mile radius. It yielded 217 results and I sorted it by price. Both were LT trims. I don't know if the diesel version adds more standard equipment than petrol. I picked the cheapest 2.7 4WD and the cheapest diesel 4WD, scrolled down until I saw the lowest priced crew cab and went from there. The difference was $11,000.

That was how I got my new 2019 RSTZ71 4WD with 5.3. Scrolled down until I got the first "RST Z71 4WD" and went down there. Didn't care what engine, but it came very nicely equipped. It was $54k, priced down to $43k.

topgear1224 · June 22, 2020

I have the 5.3 RST 4x4 and I get around 22 mpg going 70 mph.

Right now, I see $5,000 off diesels and cheapest one around here is an LT with MSRP of $53,215, priced at $47,715. I see a $6,500 off petrol and cheapest one around here is an LT with MSRP of $42,495, priced at $35,995.

That's a $11,000 difference. Let's say the V-8 gets 20 mpg and diesel gets 30 mpg. Incidentally, petrol and diesel are both priced the same at $2.89 a gallon. Let's say OP drives 20,000 miles a year... my Excel spreadsheet says the fuel for diesel diesel will cost $1,926 whilst the petrol version will cost $2,890. A $963 difference every year for an initial investment of $11,000 in a diesel.

Bad logic.

That MSRP isn't for a 5.3 LT it's more inline with the 2.7.
as I said before 3.0 is an ultra premium engine option that has to be compared to the 6.2.

Again if all you need is a vehicle with a cheap cost per mile, four door V6 4x4 Custom is by far the value leader in the current lineup. though if you're just interested in saving money you shouldn't be purchasing new.

You are also forgetting that you get 66% more miles on your warranty. A single powertrain failure at 70k miles and that "$11,000 premium" just paid for itself don't forget resell!!! you're selling a vehicle at 75k Miles that has still has factory warranty on it versus one that has none! This will easily net $5 -6K more on resale. major lift kit manufacturers also now match factory powertrain warranty with 3rd party warranties. (Basically a group of lawyers that fights the dealership if they attempt to determine something fail because of the lift)

shoot I remember back in the 2000s when they changed to a 5yr/100k warranty on every vehicle that they sold. This was a desperately-needed injection into their 3yr resale values.

It's clear that GM knows that their 3.0 is priced higher than necessary in their lineup today, they did this for multiple reasons, the number one reason is so that way they know if they need to expand their diesel factory even more. They already putting this engine in the Escalade Tahoe and suburban. This allows to GM to absorb any excess they may have in engine production with multiple models. GM made a promise to the consumer by extending the warranty and standing behind this new product.

The gas motors are pretty limited in their real world fuel economy. the numbers on the sticker is about the best you're going to get. Whereas I regularly exceed the EPA ratings. also unlike gas in the city, I've never fallen below the EPA City rating unlike the 5.3 that was getting around 12.

All this is based on my experience. I did 400 miles in the V6 Custom, 560 miles in the 5.3 LTZ, and I now own my 3.0 Elevation. all evaluated on the same roads in approximately the same weather, and the same driving style.

The price you pay depends solely on you and your negotiation skills with the dealer. it also depends on your area for instance the nearest dealer to the local dealer is a whopping 290 miles away, no competition. I could only eke 10k off MSRP. if I was in the lower 48 I would actually search Nationwide for the vehicle I want with the options I want and then reach out to the dealer electronically. Taking 2-3 days off of work to save another $9,000 on the vehicle is well worth it. You fly there then drive back.

if you don't want to do the leg work there's plenty of private brokers that will negotiate on your behalf and search multiple dealers to line up a deal. The cost is miniscule compared to the savings. ($15k off LOADED LT 5.3 trailboss PRE-PANDEMIC)

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Wiggums · June 22, 2020

52 minutes ago, topgear1224 said:

Bad logic.

That MSRP isn't for a 5.3 LT it's more inline with the 2.7.
as I said before 3.0 is an ultra premium engine option that has to be compared to the 6.2.

Again if all you need is a vehicle with a cheap cost per mile, four door V6 4x4 Custom is by far the value leader in the current lineup. though if you're just interested in saving money you shouldn't be purchasing new.

You are also forgetting that you get 66% more miles on your warranty. A single powertrain failure at 70k miles and that "$11,000 premium" just paid for itself don't forget resell!!! you're selling a vehicle at 75k Miles that has still has factory warranty on it versus one that has none! This will easily net $5 -6K more on resale. major lift kit manufacturers also now match factory powertrain warranty with 3rd party warranties. (Basically a group of lawyers that fights the dealership if they attempt to determine something fail because of the lift)

shoot I remember back in the 2000s when they changed to a 5yr/100k warranty on every vehicle that they sold. This was a desperately-needed injection into their 3yr resale values.

It's clear that GM knows that their 3.0 is priced higher than necessary in their lineup today, they did this for multiple reasons, the number one reason is so that way they know if they need to expand their diesel factory even more. They already putting this engine in the Escalade Tahoe and suburban. This allows to GM to absorb any excess they may have in engine production with multiple models. GM made a promise to the consumer by extending the warranty and standing behind this new product.

The gas motors are pretty limited in their real world fuel economy. the numbers on the sticker is about the best you're going to get. Whereas I regularly exceed the EPA ratings. also unlike gas in the city, I've never fallen below the EPA City rating unlike the 5.3 that was getting around 12.

All this is based on my experience. I did 400 miles in the V6 Custom, 560 miles in the 5.3 LTZ, and I now own my 3.0 Elevation. all evaluated on the same roads in approximately the same weather, and the same driving style.

The price you pay depends solely on you and your negotiation skills with the dealer. it also depends on your area for instance the nearest dealer to the local dealer is a whopping 290 miles away, no competition. I could only eke 10k off MSRP. if I was in the lower 48 I would actually search Nationwide for the vehicle I want with the options I want and then reach out to the dealer electronically. Taking 2-3 days off of work to save another $9,000 on the vehicle is well worth it. You fly there then drive back.

if you don't want to do the leg work there's plenty of private brokers that will negotiate on your behalf and search multiple dealers to line up a deal. The cost is miniscule compared to the savings. ($15k off LOADED LT 5.3 trailboss PRE-PANDEMIC)

My point was justifying the $6,560 premium for the 3.0 turbodiesel over the 2.7.

I just corrected my mistake. Still, $6,560 to save $400 driving 20,000 miles a year isn't worth it to me. Furthermore, diesel models aren't as heavily discounted as the petrol models.. that's another $1,500 on top.

My RST 4x4 was only $1k above Custom even though difference in MSRP was about $7k. The "value leader" is kind of moot point after you factor in dealership discounts.

"... saving money you shouldn't be purchasing new..." I bought new to save money. $11k discount.. or I could buy a two-year-old used at $11k off. What's more was that my 2019 was a newly redesigned model so I knew I'd get quite a bit back with the higher resale. I did that with my 2012 F-150 XLT 4x4, was $39k, bought for $29k, traded in four years later for $24k. I could have bought a used 2010 F-150 XLT 4x4 for the same amount of money, but that's kind of dumb. That's why I buy new trucks every 3 or 4 years. And then there's the warranty. If I don't get $11k off, I will not buy, period.

The fuel economy numbers on the sticker is about the best I'm going to get? No, I've managed to get 30 going 65 mph all the way on a flat surface and that was after 100 miles. I think EPA said 23 so.. like you, I am exceeding EPA ratings. And other members here have chimed in that the trip computer is on spot with accuracy, unlike the previous generation models.

There are over 20 dealerships so I used cars.com to search for new 4x4 trucks and picked what I wanted and sorted it by price. No hassle, just walk in, buy it, get out. A 110-mile trip that was worth it. No negotiating and I got $11k off MSRP on a newly redesigned 2019 RST. No brokers, none of that. Whole thing took me a few hours.

Bo Evans · June 22, 2020

8 minutes ago, Wiggums said:

My point was justifying the $6,560 premium for the 3.0 turbodiesel over the 2.7.

I just corrected my mistake. Still, $6,560 to save $400 driving 20,000 miles a year isn't worth it to me. Furthermore, diesel models aren't as heavily discounted as the petrol models.. that's another $1,500 on top.

My RST 4x4 was only $1k above Custom even though difference in MSRP was about $7k. The "value leader" is kind of moot point after you factor in dealership discounts.

"... saving money you shouldn't be purchasing new..." I bought new to save money. $11k discount.. or I could buy a two-year-old used at $11k off. What's more was that my 2019 was a newly redesigned model so I knew I'd get quite a bit back with the higher resale. I did that with my 2012 F-150 XLT 4x4, was $39k, bought for $29k, traded in four years later for $24k. I could have bought a used 2010 F-150 XLT 4x4 for the same amount of money, but that's kind of dumb. That's why I buy new trucks every 3 or 4 years. And then there's the warranty. If I don't get $11k off, I will not buy, period.

The fuel economy numbers on the sticker is about the best I'm going to get? No, I've managed to get 30 going 65 mph all the way on a flat surface and that was after 100 miles. I think EPA said 23 so.. like you, I am exceeding EPA ratings. And other members here have chimed in that the trip computer is on spot with accuracy, unlike the previous generation models.

There are over 20 dealerships so I used cars.com to search for new 4x4 trucks and picked what I wanted and sorted it by price. No hassle, just walk in, buy it, get out. A 110-mile trip that was worth it. No negotiating and I got $11k off MSRP on a newly redesigned 2019 RST. No brokers, none of that. Whole thing took me a few hours.

Like I said before, It all depends on how much you pay, i paid 43k for my 3.0 LTZ 4x4 (same price as your RST) with a better package to boot and get better mileage and better warranty and a lot more torque. I had no haggling either, just a few text messages, come in and sign. My choice was deciding between an LT 3.0 4x4 for 39k or LTZ 3.0 4x4 for 43k. I actually wanted the RST for the painted bumpers but am glad I stuck with LTZ again for cooled seats in the TX summers. Would you trade your 5.3 RST for an LTZ 3.0? There is your answer . Just have to find the right deal.

Wiggums · June 22, 2020

16 minutes ago, Bo Evans said:

Like I said before, It all depends on how much you pay, i paid 43k for my 3.0 LTZ 4x4 (same price as your RST) with a better package to boot and get better mileage and better warranty and a lot more torque. I had no haggling either, just a few text messages, come in and sign. My choice was deciding between an LT 3.0 4x4 for 39k or LTZ 3.0 4x4 for 43k. I actually wanted the RST for the painted bumpers but am glad I stuck with LTZ again for cooled seats in the TX summers. Would you trade your 5.3 RST for an LTZ 3.0? There is your answer . Just have to find the right deal.

As long as it's $11k off, you got a good deal. Mine had $8,000 worth of options, Z71, All-Star, among other things. I had to have the center console, it comes with A/C vents for the back and I have more space to put my stuff. My requirements were simple: V8, center console, 4x4 with two-speed transfer case. It would be priced the same as a base LTZ model with no options. I'm happy with the 24 mpg I've been getting, I am not into drag racing nor am I pulling big things so this is perfect. So, no, I would not trade my 5.3 RST for a 3.0 LTZ especially if it's a basic LTZ.

topgear1224 · June 22, 2020

My point was justifying the $6,560 premium for the 3.0 turbodiesel over the 2.7.

I just corrected my mistake. Still, $6,560 to save $400 driving 20,000 miles a year isn't worth it to me. Furthermore, diesel models aren't as heavily discounted as the petrol models.. that's another $1,500 on top.

My RST 4x4 was only $1k above Custom even though difference in MSRP was about $7k. The "value leader" is kind of moot point after you factor in dealership discounts.

"... saving money you shouldn't be purchasing new..." I bought new to save money. $11k discount.. or I could buy a two-year-old used at $11k off. What's more was that my 2019 was a newly redesigned model so I knew I'd get quite a bit back with the higher resale. I did that with my 2012 F-150 XLT 4x4, was $39k, bought for $29k, traded in four years later for $24k. I could have bought a used 2010 F-150 XLT 4x4 for the same amount of money, but that's kind of dumb. That's why I buy new trucks every 3 or 4 years. And then there's the warranty. If I don't get $11k off, I will not buy, period.

The fuel economy numbers on the sticker is about the best I'm going to get? No, I've managed to get 30 going 65 mph all the way on a flat surface and that was after 100 miles. I think EPA said 23 so.. like you, I am exceeding EPA ratings. And other members here have chimed in that the trip computer is on spot with accuracy, unlike the previous generation models.

There are over 20 dealerships so I used cars.com to search for new 4x4 trucks and picked what I wanted and sorted it by price. No hassle, just walk in, buy it, get out. A 110-mile trip that was worth it. No negotiating and I got $11k off MSRP on a newly redesigned 2019 RST. No brokers, none of that. Whole thing took me a few hours.

That's what I mean by bad logic

the 3.0 is an ultra-premium class engine. It's not designed for the best value. you can only compare it to other ultra-premium engines in the lineup at the same MSRP of which there is only one other one, the 6.2.

because of the increased cost at the lower trims it makes way more sense to upgrade trim levels. for instance my Elevation Duramax the way that it's optioned would only be $1,100 more for an SLT same options, with way more standard equipment and leather.

I saw 4X4 crew cab short beds v6 customs at $12,000 off msrp $32k out the door w/tax.

I guess it's true that your mileage WILL vary, I have a 65 mile highway loop I use to test economy I attained 21.4 MPG on the 5.3 cruise set at 55. DFM kept cycling. 20mpg on the 4.3 v6. And 34.7 on the Duramax. Both the gas engines used 87 octane zero ethanol. Diesel is "Alaska diesel". it is not specified whether it is diesel no. 1 or 2.

Again when shopping for this engine class you have to compare similar msrps that way the car payment is the same.

The only reason why you got so much back on resale is because the prices are artificially inflated. no way in hell I'd only take 20% off of MSRP for a two-year-old truck it lost that the moment it drove off the lot!! Assuming it had 25k miles I would have started at $23k off original msrp!

if everyone is paying $12,000 less for their truck, the resale values should fall proportionate amount unless supply is lower than demand. (one of the many reasons RAM's resale values are crap) with pickup trucks being the hot big thing again and with 20% unemployment the economy is liable to go into recession and we're probably going to see 3-4 year old pickups losing 30-35k of MSRP like they did in 2008. Remember three-year-old loaded 2006 Yukon denalis for $18,000 in 2009? don't forget Hertz is about to flood the used car market with over 500k 2 year old vehicles at repo auction pricing.

New car resale is like playing stocks. The higher the resale the more people buy them new which reduces the resale.

I honestly wasn't originally planning on buying a truck. I just wanted to see how low I could get the deal.(was aiming for 15-20k off) But when they offered me $18,500 on my 2019 Fiesta ST that I paid 21k for 18 months prior. I knew i was going to buy. Ford offered me $14k trade ( Private party was 14- 15k with 9800 miles.) And Ford was offering only $2k off MSRP.

I was going to go with a more basic level Ford truck to offset that but when I started going through their inventory I saw that the vast majority of their trucks have the $95 hitch package which, no matter what your engine, Ford will not cover your warranty repairs for powertrain failures if you tow over 5,000 pounds. they did have this jaw-dropping Lariat sport in velocity blue but it was only $700 off MSRP(67k). And had 3.31 gears YUCK.

Having already owned the 2019 RAM and having nothing but problems. That left GM.

we can just gloss over the fact that the 5.3 is complete trash compared to the competition. an 8-speed transmission that has been nothing but problems since its deployment (local service tech said he regularly has to tear them down and redo the clutch tolerances as they're not built properly from factory). No torque up top, 3.23 gears that just amplified the lack of high RPM torque. And DFM that doesn't really make a big difference because you only have 5.3 liters of displacement and therefore not enough torque when it turns off anymore then two cylinders. I took a short test drive in a SLT 6.2 (70k MSRP[emoji50]) and I can tell you that that engine with dfm makes way more sense. Plenty of torque to stay in 4-cylinder mode in the city. The question is do you have the restraint to keep it out of 8-cylinder mode to maximize the benefits?

I'm happy with my engine choice it's the perfect balance of a fuel sipping sedan when you're not in a hurry and capability when you need it.

Here she is maxed out at 15K GCWR with my 2003 8.1/Allison. MPG over the economy loop was 19.8. @65MPH. Never towed with the 5.3 (nor would I want to) hooked the load to a 2016 6.2l and averaged 9.6 mpg for reference.

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topgear1224 · June 22, 2020

I am sorry.. I realised my error.. I did not have the option to choose engine size, just diesel or petrol. I just revised my post to reflect it was a 2,7 litre, not the 5.3 after going back to read the listing more thoroughly.

My method was to sort it by price, pick only 4x4 in a 200-mile radius. It yielded 217 results and I sorted it by price. Both were LT trims. I don't know if the diesel version adds more standard equipment than petrol. I picked the cheapest 2.7 4WD and the cheapest diesel 4WD, scrolled down until I saw the lowest priced crew cab and went from there. The difference was $11,000.

That was how I got my new 2019 RSTZ71 4WD with 5.3. Scrolled down until I got the first "RST Z71 4WD" and went down there. Didn't care what engine, but it came very nicely equipped. It was $54k, priced down to $43k.

The 2.7 won't achieve the advertised fuel economy in real-world conditions because you're always going to be on the boost because it's a 4 cylinder engine in a heavy vehicle (5k lbs).

14.7 lb of boost pressure doubles the amount of fuel consumed for the engine size. The 2.7 makes 22psi. So 157% more fuel will be consumed under boost Vs NA (Technically air density matters more than boost pressure but we will assume a 100% SAE day as that's how the engine is rated). that's before you go into the insane amount of power enrichment OEM's used to reduce knock.

the only real place you would see that engine shine is in highway conditions were no boost is added. I don't know the coefficient of drag calculations off the top my head but I can guarantee you it's not at 70 miles an hour. 48 maybe.

also these engines are going to be extraordinarily sensitive to not only tire rolling resistance but weight as well. Don't forget GM Nerfed the tow rating because they had heat control problems in testing.

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Wiggums · June 22, 2020

23 minutes ago, topgear1224 said:

That's what I mean by bad logic

the 3.0 is an ultra-premium class engine. It's not designed for the best value. you can only compare it to other ultra-premium engines in the lineup at the same MSRP of which there is only one other one, the 6.2.

because of the increased cost at the lower trims it makes way more sense to upgrade trim levels. for instance my Elevation Duramax the way that it's optioned would only be $1,100 more for an SLT same options, with way more standard equipment and leather.

I saw 4X4 crew cab short beds v6 customs at $12,000 off msrp $32k out the door w/tax.

I guess it's true that your mileage WILL vary, I have a 65 mile highway loop I use to test economy I attained 21.4 MPG on the 5.3 cruise set at 55. DFM kept cycling. 20mpg on the 4.3 v6. And 34.7 on the Duramax. Both the gas engines used 87 octane zero ethanol. Diesel is "Alaska diesel". it is not specified whether it is diesel no. 1 or 2.

Again when shopping for this engine class you have to compare similar msrps that way the car payment is the same.

The only reason why you got so much back on resale is because the prices are artificially inflated. no way in hell I'd only take 20% off of MSRP for a two-year-old truck it lost that the moment it drove off the lot!! Assuming it had 25k miles I would have started at $23k off original msrp!

if everyone is paying $12,000 less for their truck, the resale values should fall proportionate amount unless supply is lower than demand. (one of the many reasons RAM's resale values are crap) with pickup trucks being the hot big thing again and with 20% unemployment the economy is liable to go into recession and we're probably going to see 3-4 year old pickups losing 30-35k of MSRP like they did in 2008. Remember three-year-old loaded 2006 Yukon denalis for $18,000 in 2009? don't forget Hertz is about to flood the used car market with over 500k 2 year old vehicles at repo auction pricing.

New car resale is like playing stocks. The higher the resale the more people buy them new which reduces the resale.

I honestly wasn't originally planning on buying a truck. I just wanted to see how low I could get the deal.(was aiming for 15-20k off) But when they offered me $18,500 on my 2019 Fiesta ST that I paid 21k for 18 months prior. I knew i was going to buy. Ford offered me $14k trade ( Private party was 14- 15k with 9800 miles.) And Ford was offering only $2k off MSRP.

I was going to go with a more basic level Ford truck to offset that but when I started going through their inventory I saw that the vast majority of their trucks have the $95 hitch package which, no matter what your engine, Ford will not cover your warranty repairs for powertrain failures if you tow over 5,000 pounds. they did have this jaw-dropping Lariat sport in velocity blue but it was only $700 off MSRP(67k). And had 3.31 gears YUCK.

Having already owned the 2019 RAM and having nothing but problems. That left GM.

we can just gloss over the fact that the 5.3 is complete trash compared to the competition. an 8-speed transmission that has been nothing but problems since its deployment (local service tech said he regularly has to tear them down and redo the clutch tolerances as they're not built properly from factory). No torque up top, 3.23 gears that just amplified the lack of high RPM torque. And DFM that doesn't really make a big difference because you only have 5.3 liters of displacement and therefore not enough torque when it turns off anymore then two cylinders. I took a short test drive in a SLT 6.2 (70k MSRP) and I can tell you that that engine with dfm makes way more sense. Plenty of torque to stay in 4-cylinder mode in the city. The question is do you have the restraint to keep it out of 8-cylinder mode to maximize the benefits?

I'm happy with my engine choice it's the perfect balance of a fuel sipping sedan when you're not in a hurry and capability when you need it.

Here she is maxed out at 15K GCWR with my 2003 8.1/Allison. MPG over the economy loop was 19.8. @65MPH. Never towed with the 5.3 (nor would I want to) hooked the load to a 2016 6.2l and averaged 9.6 mpg for reference.

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Some want better engines, some want better equipment, some want better off-roading capability. Engine was my least priority, but I wanted decent gas mileage and the 5.3 delivers, even with that supposedly troublesome 8-speed automatic your mechanic regularly has to tear down....

The basic LTZ didn't have a few things my RST has. I would not consider the gas-guzzling 6.2, what if the OP wants better fuel economy? I wanted better fuel economy and I knew the 5.3 was really good. The LTZ had leather, I will even pay $1,000 more not to have leather. It had other things that I couldn't care about.

When I bought my 2019, the 3.0 wasn't an option. Even if it was, I would not go for it because I cannot justify the premium. I don't even drive much on it.

The crew cab short beds, maybe now they are $12,000 off, but sure wasn't back then when they were newly redesigned in 2019.

I got 28 mpg using regular unleaded with ethanol (California) but that was going 65 mph on a flat surface with no braking or even slowing down.

I keep getting $10k to $12k off every time I buy new trucks. Been like that since my first truck in 2012. By now, don't you think the resale value should be falling proportionately? Surprisingly, it hasn't! My truck's expected to retain 54% of its original value after five years, but I got it at $11k off so it's more like 67% for me. That's a great deal.

I don't think I've seen a Silverado in Hertz. They do have F-150 though, rented it a few times.

I have the restraint to keep it out of 8-cylinder mode. That's why I got 28 mpg at one point. This is why I would not consider the diesel, the premium isn't that great. I am showing 24 mpg average with roughly 90% highway, about half of that is with Mexican gas that has no ethanol. I'm a very laid back driver, that's why I don't have a Camaro. I am happy with my engine choice.

Wiggums · June 22, 2020

18 minutes ago, topgear1224 said:

The 2.7 won't achieve the advertised fuel economy in real-world conditions because you're always going to be on the boost because it's a 4 cylinder engine in a heavy vehicle (5k lbs).

14.7 lb of boost pressure doubles the amount of fuel consumed for the engine size. The 2.7 makes 22psi. So 157% more fuel will be consumed under boost Vs NA (Technically air density matters more than boost pressure but we will assume a 100% SAE day as that's how the engine is rated). that's before you go into the insane amount of power enrichment OEM's used to reduce knock.

the only real place you would see that engine shine is in highway conditions were no boost is added. I don't know the coefficient of drag calculations off the top my head but I can guarantee you it's not at 70 miles an hour. 48 maybe.

also these engines are going to be extraordinarily sensitive to not only tire rolling resistance but weight as well. Don't forget GM Nerfed the tow rating because they had heat control problems in testing.

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Having driven the EcoBoost, I can confirm that gas mileage with a turbo-charged engine has wildly unpredictable gas mileage. The OP did say highway miles and it'd be up to 20k a year. Another reason why I opted for the V8 was engine braking power, I do that all the time. The EcoBoost was pretty bad and I know the 2.7 EcoBoost is way worse.

If he just stays on the highway going 70 mph, no trailer and no hills, then I might opt for that motor. I am not into power or performance.

TheCloudX · June 22, 2020

I haven't read all three pages of responses, so I apologize if this has been addressed. But as having owned both a gas Colorado and Silverado, and having a close friend owning both in diesel, I felt I had some insight to share.

The Colorado is a fantastic truck. For its size, it's roomy, and does the job well. I had a 2016 Z71 4x4 with the V6. I averaged 24mpg with mixed city and highway driving. Going off-road, it was very sure of itself and I was able to take it through some nasty stuff - including a pretty bad winter storm in Michigan. I had almost 40k miles on it when traded - nothing but oil changes and the few recalls that popped up. It never once gave me an issue. My dad had the WT with the V6 and put almost 80k on it before it got totaled. He never had an issue with it, just standard maintenance and recalls. I don't recall what MPG he got, but it was a bit better than mine, obviously so. He did tow with it quite a bit, never an issue.

I traded it in for my Silverado, RST 5.3l 4x4 with Z71, because I met my now wife and went from just me and my lab, to me, my wife and three dogs - 1 lab, 1 GSP, and 1 midsized loveable mutt. The Colorado worked, but it was feeling cramped for road trips. The Silverado has just shy of 16k miles on it. Same thing, only oil changes and recalls - no issues. I'm averaging about 21mpg. The Silverado is comfortable, but the leg room does leave a bit to be desired due to the dead pedal.

My buddy bought a GMC Canyon with the diesel soon after I bought my Colorado. The trucks were identical, except his was GMC with the diesel. He paid about 6-7k more for his. He did average about 30mpg. Never had an issue. He traded it in for his Sierra AT4 with the diesel. Last I heard, he's getting upper 20s for MPG. I don't remember off the top of my head how much he paid, and its not true apples to apples comparing a fully loaded AT4 to a mid level RST - but I think it was about 15k difference or so. He's only had it a month, but has taken it on short trips. No issues. He felt the gas engines performed better on test drives, but went with the diesel for the MPG and longevity.

If it were me and my money, I would not get the 4 cyl gas engines. IMO, I just don't see them lasting long term like the V8's will. If you're looking for best bang for your buck, I would get a Colorado with the V6 so long as you don't need the space of the Silverado. The Colorado, depending on trim, may be as much as 10k less than that of a similar equipped Silverado. IIRC, I paid about 35k for my Colorado and 43k for my Silverado. If you do need the extra space of the Silverado, the 5.3l V8 is a tried and true engine that should last a long time - all the while providing fairly decent MPG.

As for diesel vs. gas... IMO it's an investment. You'll pay a premium for the diesel. If you trade your truck in every few years, never breaking 100k miles on them, it's most likely the up front investment of the diesel will not be recouped at the time of trade in. However, if you do plan to keep this truck for a long time, and will be putting more than 100k miles on it, the upfront investment may be recouped. But even then, is 5-8 mpg really that big a difference at the end of the day? To some, yes, and if so for you, then the diesel is the obvious choice. But, I'd steer clear of the 4cyl in both the Colorado and Silverado.