1st to 2nd rough shift

BowtieSquatch · July 2, 2020

8 hours ago, nichos said:

Same here on my truck, under 10k miles, 2019.

What is meant by not shifting from R to D quickly?

Are y'all saying to go from R, to P, the D? Or R to D and hold the brake for a few seconds?

From R to D let the truck come to a complete stop before shifting to D. The TCM is a special breed of slow computer. lol

topgear1224 · July 2, 2020

From R to D let the truck come to a complete stop before shifting to D. The TCM is a special breed of slow computer. lol

They programmed it that way on purpose.

If it senses any speed whatsoever when pulling out of reverse it'll engage 2nd, it'll then downshift into first after a few moments and that downshift will be harsh.

Here's the TSB

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10176635-9999.pdf

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topgear1224 · July 2, 2020

Same here on my truck, under 10k miles, 2019.

What is meant by not shifting from R to D quickly?

Are y'all saying to go from R, to P, the D? Or R to D and hold the brake for a few seconds?

What I suggest is what I used to do on my old trucks.
When you take it out of reverse put it in neutral for a moment. Make sure the truck is completely stopped then engage drive.

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BowtieSquatch · July 2, 2020

Just now, topgear1224 said:

What I suggest is what I used to do on my old trucks.
When you take it out of reverse put it in neutral for a moment. Make sure the truck is completely stopped then engage drive.

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So I've read. Who ever thought that would be a good idea?

topgear1224 · July 2, 2020

So I've read. Who ever thought that would be a good idea?

Even on my 01 Allison if you shift too fast it will slam.

Heres the TSB

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10176635-9999.pdf

Is to teach drivers proper operation behavior.

Also with how low these first gears are. You run the risk of twisting the drive shaft. If you are still rolling backwards.

It's the same way that these trucks have limited torque available in first and second gear.

Floor your truck from a stop light notice how it doesn't do a big smoking burnout. With a 4.70 1st gear it should do a standing burnout like on a drag strip.

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newdude · July 2, 2020

Here is the TSB on the 1-2 shift.

Quote

#16-NA-361: Information on Transmission Harsh 1-2 Shift Upon First Start Up/Shift of the Day Under Light Throttle - (Oct 8, 2019)

Involved Region or Country

North America and N.A. Export Regions

Condition

Some customers may comment that the transmission exhibits a harsh 1-2 shift on the first shift of the day, typically under light throttle.

Cause

This condition is due to the initial clutch fill time of the 2-3-4-6-8 (C4) clutch.

Information

Some customers may experience a flare condition on the first 1-2 shift of the day or after the vehicle has been parked for several hours. The condition may have developed after the replacement of a complete transmission assembly or the replacement of the stator support to correct a delayed engagement condition. This is most likely to occur under light throttle conditions. Subsequent 1-2 shifts have acceptable shift feel. Replacing transmission components will not correct the condition.

Correction

Important: Replacing transmission components or complete assemblies will not improve the condition.

The first 1-2 shift of the day may be harsh. The customers’ vehicle should be compared to a like vehicle under the same driving conditions. Do Not replace any parts for this condition.

Note: This condition will not impact the designed performance or reliability of the vehicle.

topgear1224 · July 2, 2020

Here is the TSB on the 1-2 shift.

#16-NA-361: Information on Transmission Harsh 1-2 Shift Upon First Start Up/Shift of the Day Under Light Throttle - (Oct 8, 2019)

Involved Region or Country
North America and N.A. Export Regions

Condition
Some customers may comment that the transmission exhibits a harsh 1-2 shift on the first shift of the day, typically under light throttle.

Cause
This condition is due to the initial clutch fill time of the 2-3-4-6-8 (C4) clutch.

Information
Some customers may experience a flare condition on the first 1-2 shift of the day or after the vehicle has been parked for several hours. The condition may have developed after the replacement of a complete transmission assembly or the replacement of the stator support to correct a delayed engagement condition. This is most likely to occur under light throttle conditions. Subsequent 1-2 shifts have acceptable shift feel. Replacing transmission components will not correct the condition.

Correction
Important: Replacing transmission components or complete assemblies will not improve the condition.
The first 1-2 shift of the day may be harsh. The customers’ vehicle should be compared to a like vehicle under the same driving conditions. Do Not replace any parts for this condition.
Note: This condition will not impact the designed performance or reliability of the vehicle.

Yep that's the 1st start one. The one I linked has to do with reverse to drive [emoji846]

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BigredGMC · July 2, 2020

Well I got stuck in an hour long stop and go traffic and every time from stop when it shifted into 2nd it slammed, sometimes not so hard sometimes it felt like the transmission was about to break off. If I start with slow throttle, then it slammed real hard but if harder gas it shifted with less force. It does it cold, warm, it does it all the time. I fear driving it in stop and go cause that is when you feel the full crappiness of the shifting. And has on a couple of occasions almost stalled while waiting at a red light. Really frustrated.

topgear1224 · July 2, 2020

Well I got stuck in an hour long stop and go traffic and every time from stop when it shifted into 2nd it slammed, sometimes not so hard sometimes it felt like the transmission was about to break off. If I start with slow throttle, then it slammed real hard but if harder gas it shifted with less force. It does it cold, warm, it does it all the time. I fear driving it in stop and go cause that is when you feel the full crappiness of the shifting. And has on a couple of occasions almost stalled while waiting at a red light. Really frustrated.

You need to get the dealer to address the stalling issue.
There will be historic codes in the computer.

While he's at it have him run a stationary relearn. (they'll know what that means and if they don't go to a different dealer. It allows the transmission to relearn the clutch pack fill times.)

As for the shifting in the stop and go.... yeah that's literally why I returned it at a loss (it was a one-for-one. LTZ was nearly 16k off new truck only 10k, same payment)

about the only other way to work around that to be honest with you is to manually shift it yourself. L1 untill traffic clears up.

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BigredGMC · July 2, 2020

The truck looks amazing, but the transmission ruins the experience. Why would they knowingly put something in a vehicle that does not work properly? That is not how to keep a customer for the long run.

topgear1224 · July 2, 2020

The truck looks amazing, but the transmission ruins the experience. Why would they knowingly put something in a vehicle that does not work properly? That is not how to keep a customer for the long run.

Hence the class action lawsuit.

8sp speed was originally launched in a CTS-V it is designed for high torque high horsepower.

GM messed up when they put it in the truck and changed the tuning for warranty purposes. In the car applications its completely fine, but GM didn't want to risk blowing up G80s and axle hop so they tuned it to prevent warranty claims.

They did the same thing with the 10 speed. in the ZL1 shift times are 150 milliseconds which is 36% faster than a Porsche pdk. In the truck it has to be at least four or five times that.

The biggest offender is at Full throttle it's easily 3/4 of a second (750ms).

the problem with making a transmission that's designed to shift quickly shift slowly is wear and the only way to fix that wear problem is either delay the shift or have a Max shift timer. It's the timer that's making it slam.

don't worry although my 10-speed is nice and relatively calm it has a really nasty habit when accelerating.

Because of the obscene torque limit in first gear and the overly aggressive throttle ramp, what happens is you begin to accelerate next traffic pulls away so you give it more power.
the transmission still decides to go head and up shift and once it hits 2nd gear it tries to unleash 400 lb torque to the rear wheels which have now ripped my motor mounts at only 5,000 miles...... My transmission doesn't slam... my powertrain does instead! Sometimes it hits hard enough for the truck to stop accelerating while the computers figure out what happened.

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BigredGMC · July 2, 2020

5 minutes ago, topgear1224 said:

Hence the class action lawsuit.

8sp speed was originally launched in a CTS-V it is designed for high torque high horsepower.

GM messed up when they put it in the truck and changed the tuning for warranty purposes. In the car applications its completely fine, but GM didn't want to risk blowing up G80s and axle hop so they tuned it to prevent warranty claims.

They did the same thing with the 10 speed. in the ZL1 shift times are 150 milliseconds which is 36% faster than a Porsche pdk. In the truck it has to be at least four or five times that.

The biggest offender is at Full throttle it's easily 3/4 of a second (750ms).

the problem with making a transmission that's designed to shift quickly shift slowly is wear and the only way to fix that wear problem is either delay the shift or have a Max shift timer. It's the timer that's making it slam.

don't worry although my 10-speed is nice and relatively calm it has a really nasty habit when accelerating.

Because of the obscene torque limit in first gear and the overly aggressive throttle ramp, what happens is you begin to accelerate next traffic pulls away so you give it more power.
the transmission still decides to go head and up shift and once it hits 2nd gear it tries to unleash 400 lb torque to the rear wheels which have now ripped my motor mounts at only 5,000 miles...... My transmission doesn't slam... my powertrain does instead! Sometimes it hits hard enough for the truck to stop accelerating while the computers figure out what happened.

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And I taught the 10 speed is better. I test drove the new RAM with the ZF 8speed huge difference. Smooth and fast shifting.

topgear1224 · July 2, 2020

And I taught the 10 speed is better. I test drove the new RAM with the ZF 8speed huge difference. Smooth and fast shifting.

It's definitely better it's just extremely nerfed.

If you don't have the turbo diesel you won't break the mounts.

I had a 2019 Ram they're nice and smooth until they fail.

classic crappy Chrysler build qualit.y a shame there too because that transmission is actually exactly the same that they put behind what was their SRT charger and Challenger. (Now scat pack)

If you are thinking about buying a RAM I'll tell you right now do not buy one with 3.21 gears you will have a nightmare of problems. Get the 3.92. 3.21 is too abusive to the transmission behind the hemi. My transmission started to fail at 13,000 miles with slipping at the top of first. Was leaking fluid by the first oil change.

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BigredGMC · July 2, 2020

4 minutes ago, topgear1224 said:

It's definitely better it's just extremely nerfed.

If you don't have the turbo diesel you won't break the mounts.

I had a 2019 Ram they're nice and smooth until they fail.

classic crappy Chrysler build qualit.y a shame there too because that transmission is actually exactly the same that they put behind what was their SRT charger and Challenger. (Now scat pack)

If you are thinking about buying a RAM I'll tell you right now do not buy one with 3.21 gears you will have a nightmare of problems. Get the 3.92. 3.21 is too abusive to the transmission behind the hemi. My transmission started to fail at 13,000 miles with slipping at the top of first. Was leaking fluid by the first oil change.

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Scotty Kilmer did say don't buy any FCA product lol. I had a 2017 Ford F150 with 3.5 eco and 10 speed. The transmission was very clunky and the engine had chain rattle at around 16,000 miles. Is there no car/truck that is quality anymore? The dealership is trying to get me into a 10 speed elevation. Will try it out before signing.

SilveradoRST · July 2, 2020

33 minutes ago, topgear1224 said:

Hence the class action lawsuit.

8sp speed was originally launched in a CTS-V it is designed for high torque high horsepower.

GM messed up when they put it in the truck and changed the tuning for warranty purposes. In the car applications its completely fine, but GM didn't want to risk blowing up G80s and axle hop so they tuned it to prevent warranty claims.

They did the same thing with the 10 speed. in the ZL1 shift times are 150 milliseconds which is 36% faster than a Porsche pdk. In the truck it has to be at least four or five times that.

The biggest offender is at Full throttle it's easily 3/4 of a second (750ms).

the problem with making a transmission that's designed to shift quickly shift slowly is wear and the only way to fix that wear problem is either delay the shift or have a Max shift timer. It's the timer that's making it slam.

don't worry although my 10-speed is nice and relatively calm it has a really nasty habit when accelerating.

Because of the obscene torque limit in first gear and the overly aggressive throttle ramp, what happens is you begin to accelerate next traffic pulls away so you give it more power.
the transmission still decides to go head and up shift and once it hits 2nd gear it tries to unleash 400 lb torque to the rear wheels which have now ripped my motor mounts at only 5,000 miles...... My transmission doesn't slam... my powertrain does instead! Sometimes it hits hard enough for the truck to stop accelerating while the computers figure out what happened.

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