Jump to content

DEF Tank - Frozen

ArrowsmithPML

By ArrowsmithPML
in 6.6L Duramax Diesel (L5P)

 Share

Recommended Posts

ArrowsmithPML Enthusiast

ArrowsmithPML

Posted
Posted

So it was -40C this morning and after getting my wife's '21 3.0L Yukon warmed up I elected to warm up the 6.6L and take it to get fuel. Got there, made the fill and upon restart, DEF tank warnings - DEF froze up. 

 

It has been in the heated shop all day and now it still has codes. It has previously survived -50 without issue so this is strange. Yes it is plugged in, has fuel conditioner and quality fuel.

ArrowsmithPML Enthusiast

ArrowsmithPML

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Well at this point that seems obvious. The dealer is keeping it over night

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

gemarsh Senior Enthusiast

gemarsh

Posted
Posted

What year? There is an updated tsb for the early 22's and back. Had to do with a bad electrical connector for the def tank that would melt.

ArrowsmithPML Enthusiast

ArrowsmithPML

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Its a 2021. Do you have a TSB?

Edited by ArrowsmithPML
formatting
ArrowsmithPML Enthusiast

ArrowsmithPML

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Update:

2 of the 3 elements in the tank were melted prior to the TSB that was issued to replace the wiring harness and lower the amperage thru the wire. So when the 3rd element quit, the DEF fluid froze and the tank split open. 

 

Now, new harness, new tank and heating elements and I'm told to keep the tank full and the truck plugged in without a timer when below -15 C. 

 

Now, the wife's 3.0L is suffering from some kind of DEF sensor failure as the tank is full (added 20 L to it recently) and it is still showing near empty even after 5 hours of sitting in a heated shop.

 

This DEF tank design is clearly flawed for cold weather.

gemarsh Senior Enthusiast

gemarsh

Posted
Posted

2 things. What good reason did they give you for plugging the block heater in, since def tank is electrically heated and not coolant heated?

 

2nd, how will a full def tank help from freezing and breaking the tank? Closer to empty for expansion of frozen piss water makes more sense. But then again, I didn't stay at a holiday inn last nite. ;>)

 

 

 

ArrowsmithPML Enthusiast

ArrowsmithPML

Posted
  • Author
Posted

The fender mount plug powers electric heat elements on the DEF tank (apparently - I've not seen a wiring diagram). Does makes sense though. 

 

 

ArrowsmithPML Enthusiast

ArrowsmithPML

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I'm getting used to the coffee at the dealer - going back tomorrow. This time to pick up the 3.0L diesel Yukon (def tank sensors frozen today) and to drop off the 6.6L (again). This time, and new this afternoon the HVAC vents on either side of the steering wheel only provide cold air! Big issue when it's -30 outside. 

 

Getting frustrated... No CEL, I'm not going to bother running my scan tool as the dealer is 10 minutes away. They can do it.

 

Cold weather like this sucks.

ArrowsmithPML Enthusiast

ArrowsmithPML

Posted
  • Author
Posted
1 hour ago, gemarsh said:

2nd, how will a full def tank help from freezing and breaking the tank? Closer to empty for expansion of frozen piss water makes more sense. But then again, I didn't stay at a holiday inn last nite. ;>)

Based on what I know of the tank, the filler neck and the system in general which is clearly not designed for this environment, the higher the volume in the tank, the less issue one has with the heater elements being exposed and useless and therefore less of an opportunity for freezing. I've had the filler neck freeze solid a few times before but it normally behaves itself with some warm air or one of those warm water under carriage truck washes (if one can be so lucky to get an oversized 3500 in there). 

I'm not new to diesels but everything I've owned was older than 2012 and didn't have this fool DEF. So, I too didn't fall off the turnip truck either. 

 

I will get to the bottom of this tomorrow but my patience is wearing thing. The coffee at the dealer isn't bad and it is warm inside so there is that... LOL...
 

1 hour ago, gemarsh said:

 

 

 

 

gemarsh Senior Enthusiast

gemarsh

Posted
Posted

It sure would be nice if epa would allow something like clear winter washer fluid and urea mix for def replacement in cold climates. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ArrowsmithPML Enthusiast

ArrowsmithPML

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Or just get off their high horse and recognize that it doesn't work and should be deleted.

gemarsh Senior Enthusiast

gemarsh

Posted
Posted

Deep cold justs sucks. Lost power at 3:30 this am. So hard on everything getting generator running for heat and water.

 

 

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Forum Statistics

    250.4k
    Total Topics
    2.7m
    Total Posts

  • Member Statistics

    342,759
    Total Members
    8,960
    Most Online
    DM22
    Newest Member
    DM22
    Joined

  • Who's Online   7 Members, 0 Anonymous, 1,689 Guests (See full list)

  • Latest Articles

  • Posts

    • KARNUT
      OCI, not when but why?

      By KARNUT · Posted

      As a matter of amusement I’ll leave this conversation with this. Do you beat the government average fuel estimate? Statistics are a guide to me. Not a rule. Someone once said I have to have the last word. If true and possible may be. I’ll blame that on working in a family business.
    • bluev8
      Intermittent no-code issues on 2022.5+ V8 trucks — what did the shop fail to capture?

      By bluev8 · Posted

      That is a fair point, and I agree that trying to log “everything in the truck” would be the wrong direction.   There are a lot of modules and a lot of traffic. If the product became a full-truck datalogger, the amount of data would get huge very quickly, and most owners would never use it.   I think the first useful version would need to be narrow: - powertrain-side event evidence - selected high-value parameters - communication / voltage / reset events - pre/post event window - short report first, raw log only as backup   One distinction I should make is between active OBD/PID polling and passive bus capture. If you are polling PIDs through OBD, then yes: the more parameters you request, the lower the effective sample rate becomes, and you are adding diagnostic traffic to a vehicle that is already busy running itself. With passive CAN capture, the recorder is not asking all the modules for data. It is listening to traffic that is already on the bus. So it does not consume vehicle bus bandwidth in the same way that a scan tool polling hundreds of PIDs would. But your point still applies in a different way.   Even if passive capture does not add bus traffic, the recorder still has limits: - processing rate - storage rate - timestamp accuracy - decoder workload - event filtering - report size - user attention span   So the answer cannot be “log everything and let the user figure it out.” The product would need to store enough raw evidence to be useful, but only decode, graph, and present the important parts around the event.   A practical report should probably show: - what triggered the capture - how much pre/post data was preserved - which selected parameters changed - how those values compared to baseline - whether the same pattern happened before - whether any voltage, reset, bus-off, lost-message, or communication fault occurred - selected graphs around the event - raw data only as supporting evidence   So I agree with you. More data is not automatically better. The real product is the reduction from raw data into a useful event report.
    • bluev8
      Intermittent no-code issues on 2022.5+ V8 trucks — what did the shop fail to capture?

      By bluev8 · Posted

      That makes sense, and I agree with most of that.   I think the product would need both: 1. a default powertrain template, so it is useful out of the box; 2. user-selected priority parameters, so the owner or shop can choose what they want to see first.   Different users are going to care about different things. One owner may care about oil pressure and voltage. Another may care about misfire trend, AFM/DFM behavior, or U-codes. A shop may want communication events and repeatability first. Your baseline point is probably the most important one. Raw data is not very useful unless the report can show what normal looked like for that vehicle under similar conditions.   The way I would think about it is: - start with a basic known-good baseline - learn normal behavior for that specific vehicle over time - allow the event to be overlaid against baseline - show whether the event was a one-time spike or a repeatable pattern - provide a simple severity level, but with clear limits on what that severity means   For example, early severity could be something like: - Info: event captured, no obvious abnormal pattern - Watch: value moved outside baseline, but not repeated - Warning: repeatable abnormal pattern under similar conditions - Critical: communication loss, voltage drop, bus-off, reset, or severe repeated event   I would not want the first version to say “replace this part.” That would be overclaiming unless there is repair-confirmed data behind it. It would be more honest to say “this pattern deserves inspection.”   On the OBD port question, I think OBD absolutely has a role. OBD is probably the right place for: - DTCs - freeze frame - VIN - calibration information - normal scan-tool parameters - Mode 6 / enhanced diagnostic data if available The reason I am still looking at an ECM-side recorder is that the failure may happen before anyone connects a scan tool. If the owner plugs in a scanner after the event, the pre-event evidence may already be gone unless the ECU happened to save it. So I do not see this as “OBD versus ECM-side.” I see it more like: - ECM-side recorder: always armed, rolling buffer, event evidence - OBD/DLC companion: DTCs, freeze frame, VIN, calibration, normal scan data - phone/cloud: status, notes, upload, report generation, notifications   I agree that phone connection and push notifications would be useful. I just would not want the phone or cloud connection to be required for capture. The recorder should save the event locally even if the phone is not connected. The phone should help with event marking, download, notes, upload, alerts, and report viewing.   For a default GM V8 event report, would this list make sense? - RPM - calculated load / MAP - throttle position - vehicle speed - gear / torque converter state if available - coolant temperature - oil pressure - oil temperature if available - battery voltage - commanded AFM/DFM state if available - actual AFM/DFM state if available - misfire counters / roughness by cylinder if available - fuel trims - relevant U-codes / communication events - bus-off / lost periodic message / module reset / voltage drop events Which of those would you remove, and what would you add?
    • Grumpy Bear
      OCI, not when but why?

      By Grumpy Bear · Posted

      I went to the county a few years back to dispute my property taxes. To do that I hired an appraiser and a lawyer. The County Assessor wished to argue that the homes in my neighborhood the appraiser used were all 'distressed properties" and not representative of the "Market Average".    My response was," Of the 50 homes in our subdivision 43 of them were "distressed properties" under bank foreclosure and as such "Distressed IS the market". Lawyer about choked on his coffee and handed the Assessor the 'receipts'.    I won that case on the evidence provided by the Lawyer and the Appraiser.    We have the same thing going on here. My statements were based on the GOVERNMENTS NATIONAL DATA and yours on local markets in areas of your interest. They are both correct....   Thing is, this divergence was based on NATIONAL and not on LOCAL. I think you even understand that. But like you said, we are both stubborn and hardheaded.    I do not see any advantage to disengagement.  But that said we can step back to compose ourselves. 
    • revmanii
      Looking at ordering a '26 WT because I want a std cab, std bed

      By revmanii · Posted

      Trust me I appreciate the comments and concerns. It's what I was looking for to help me evaluate the situation and what I want to do. I have decided to move forward with the BORA hubcentric slip on 3/8" (.375") with the extended lugs nuts. Fedex says they should be here Monday :). Meanwhile, the dealer got the remote start and Patriot spray in bed liner done over the last couple of days. Also, I installed an inline stop/start eliminator today. Starts back up in what whatever mode you shut it off in, so you don't have to hit the button every time you fire up.

  • GM-Trucks.com Clubs

  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...