Uaw Back At It Again

gave20 · September 24, 2007

Well I'd imagine the '08's will be a little slow rolling out since the factories have come to a halt, thanks to the UAW. Apparently they didn't like any of the concessions GM was offering and wanted assurances from GM on vehicle production numbers several years out. What company does that? GM-"Yes UAW, we guarantee will build 300,000 sierras in 2020, if not will pay you the difference." flippin' morons. They were also arguing over health care costs, a dead in the water topic, and reducing hour rates down to levels more closely resembling the foreign manufacturers. d**n GM for getting into this mess 20 years ago but d**n the UAW for bankrupting their employer. Toyota doesnt need to build a better truck than GM to be number 1, they just need a better union contract.

asilverblazer · September 25, 2007

Strike = Paid Vacation, just what they need. I'd like to see Gm call there bluff screw them all and hire new workers. Like they did here, only they left out the new worker part.

Zembonez · September 25, 2007

Unions will one day be the undoing of this country. I am not anti-union necessarily but I am "anti" the way they operate these days. Pure socialism... They no longer serve the hard working honorable members. They cater to the slacker members and kiss their butts. Time was when the unions were proud organizations that stood up for American workers. I respect that. Now they just nickle and dime jobs right on out of the country in droves. It sucks.

These days... If you want to make a bunch of workers into a bunch of mediocre performing robots... Form a union.

I know what is coming here... but before you guys that are in a union start writing in response, really read what I have written. I am not against you.

BigJayDogg3 · September 25, 2007

*sigh* Bring in the scabs.

What I don't understand in you have a decent amount of job security already. GM isn't going to take out a productive worker and replace them with someone that they then have to pay money to train.

This is when you just get rid of several plants fulls of workers and bring in others. This will send a message that GM has had enough, and this type of behavior won't be tolerated anymore.

Wingnut · September 25, 2007

While it would be tragic to thousands of families...The "HAHAHAHA!" guy in me would like to see them get canned and replaced by a VERY long line of people willing to do their job for $15 an hour and minimal benefits.

Heck, if they re-opened the plant here and offered $14 an hour with NO benefits, the line at their employment office would go halfway across the city.

Tucson_02Silverado · September 25, 2007

Unions, Collective bargaining are useless and dangerous today. The auto industry and several other industries are destined to become defunct with the current type of labor usage. GM and the others should not be the direct employers of assemblers and other such positions. Today, each manufactured model in any given year should be considered a project with a defined cost structure to produce. With such, there is a known labor cost/expertise needed to produce. The labor unions should be the labor employers that contract to the industry their given needs for that project for it's duration of a model year.

What is the difference of the facility maintainence staff, food service staff and others? These days major companies outsource such positions with usual 5-10 year contracts.

In a massive collective bargaining situation, how are non productive employees handled? Union contracts usually have personell hands-off clauses to the company that is suppose to be the employer. If a slacker exists, how easy is it to be working beside them knowing they get paid the same, doesn't have job pride, probably didn't even join you on the picket lines.

HR costs, pension costs, medical insurance costs should be the resposible of the union or as it should be "outsourcer".

And Oh what about all of those half finished vehicles on the lines that are destined to be the lemons that will cause future sales slumps forcing GM to start plant closures or reduced production #'s because of the bad build quality. Couldn't the unions at least negoiate on a phased strike based upon complete vehicle build? That there spits in the face of auto buyers saying pay our labor costs and you get what you get, and it's entirely the big behemouth companies fault, us little sheep unions had nothing to do with it.

Chuck S. · September 25, 2007

I have been a Union construction Electrician for 24 years, here in St. Louis. I alot of work in the GM van plant, and the Chrysler plants, among other places. I own a house worth 150k, an '05 Silvy, '00 Transam, and a '67 Caprice. I am hardly a rich man. I make a decent wage, because of a Union contract. We have NO job security-if you don't produce, you are down the road.

Scab electricians in the area earn about 50-60% of what we do. Many are illegal immigrants, because that is about all they can find to do this work for $15/hr here. Hell, we have a tough time finding young folks to do this work for $30/hr!

I have always been pro-union with anyone looking to better themsevles, but, with what I have read about GM's offer, it really isn't too bad. Not bad enough to strike over.

And, NO, a strike isn't a PAID VACATION! That is pure bullchit. If you ever have been on strike, you would know how silly that sounds. Yes, they might have a very meager, small "strike fund" set up, but, more than likely, its about enough to pay for groceries--if that.

I get a kick out of folks here, that have no actual knowlege of Unions, or how they work, saying assinine stuff like "unions are not needed". Wow. If anything, they are needed more than ever. How many people here have your spouse working, and kids shuffled off to a sitter? Do you know why that is? All of the good paying jobs are leaving, forcing us to have our wives working to make ends meet. Jobs that have been union, and, well paying. I can go on a BUNCH more over this.

Zembonez · September 25, 2007

I have been a Union construction Electrician for 24 years, here in St. Louis. I alot of work in the GM van plant, and the Chrysler plants, among other places. I own a house worth 150k, an '05 Silvy, '00 Transam, and a '67 Caprice. I am hardly a rich man. I make a decent wage, because of a Union contract. We have NO job security-if you don't produce, you are down the road.

Scab electricians in the area earn about 50-60% of what we do. Many are illegal immigrants, because that is about all they can find to do this work for $15/hr here. Hell, we have a tough time finding young folks to do this work for $30/hr!

I have always been pro-union with anyone looking to better themsevles, but, with what I have read about GM's offer, it really isn't too bad. Not bad enough to strike over.

And, NO, a strike isn't a PAID VACATION! That is pure bullchit. If you ever have been on strike, you would know how silly that sounds. Yes, they might have a very meager, small "strike fund" set up, but, more than likely, its about enough to pay for groceries--if that.

I get a kick out of folks here, that have no actual knowlege of Unions, or how they work, saying assinine stuff like "unions are not needed". Wow. If anything, they are needed more than ever. How many people here have your spouse working, and kids shuffled off to a sitter? Do you know why that is? All of the good paying jobs are leaving, forcing us to have our wives working to make ends meet. Jobs that have been union, and, well paying. I can go on a BUNCH more over this.

Spoken like a true Union member.

I say PHOOOEY.

For the record. Most of the rustbelt jobs left BECAUSE of the unions. Doesn't take a PHD in economics to see why. I for one believe in a free market. Unions are PURELY SOCIALIST organizations designed for the benefit of members only... screw the public. This isn't my opinion.. it is fact.

Who can blame union members who are reaping the benefits for being loyal??? Sure... it's great when YOU are getting all of the fluff but it's not great for the rest of us who are taking it in the A-- when a strike makes auto supplies short or union wages and benefits drive prices through the roof.

Not all unions are bad or corrupt organizations. I know that. This also isn't an attack on Chuck. Had I been the recipient of the union's benefits for 24 years I might think differently but my belief is that most unions (UAW especially) are willing to blackmail companies for "better benefits" while they screw the rest of the country... Who can blame companies for taking jobs overseas?

Unions are fast becoming a thing of the past. Just look at their membership numbers if you don't believe me. Thank god I live where they don't have us by the shorthairs. (and never will)

bryanhunt · September 25, 2007

I have been a Union construction Electrician for 24 years, here in St. Louis. I alot of work in the GM van plant, and the Chrysler plants, among other places. I own a house worth 150k, an '05 Silvy, '00 Transam, and a '67 Caprice. I am hardly a rich man. I make a decent wage, because of a Union contract. We have NO job security-if you don't produce, you are down the road.

Scab electricians in the area earn about 50-60% of what we do. Many are illegal immigrants, because that is about all they can find to do this work for $15/hr here. Hell, we have a tough time finding young folks to do this work for $30/hr!

I have always been pro-union with anyone looking to better themsevles, but, with what I have read about GM's offer, it really isn't too bad. Not bad enough to strike over.

And, NO, a strike isn't a PAID VACATION! That is pure bullchit. If you ever have been on strike, you would know how silly that sounds. Yes, they might have a very meager, small "strike fund" set up, but, more than likely, its about enough to pay for groceries--if that.

I get a kick out of folks here, that have no actual knowlege of Unions, or how they work, saying assinine stuff like "unions are not needed". Wow. If anything, they are needed more than ever. How many people here have your spouse working, and kids shuffled off to a sitter? Do you know why that is? All of the good paying jobs are leaving, forcing us to have our wives working to make ends meet. Jobs that have been union, and, well paying. I can go on a BUNCH more over this.

There is a huge difference between the UAW and the true trade unions. I haven't seen an Electrical or Carpentry union that didn't make sure their workers were well trained and the best in the area. I would hire a union electrician or carpenter in a heartbeat.

The UAW is a completely different beast and most of the things you hear about them, are true. I work at a plant in the midwest that is firmly anti-union. Its not because my company brings in union busters, the UAW firmly knows that the people of this community wouldn't stand for it. Just 20 miles away where many of their friends and family worked was a couple companies that were suppliers to the big three. They were UAW. When they went on strike they lost their contracts and went under. It was a disaster for the community and the people really ended up getting to know where their union dues were going, it wasn't to help them but simply to fatten the wallets of the UAW.

The kicker is that you'll find that a good number of degreed engineers are making less UAW machine operators with fewer benefits and less job security. The GM heathcare plan is more than adiquate to cover the needs of current and retired workers and yet the UAW wants guarentees from GM on employment, while there are still people in the JOB BANK. I'm sorry but if GM goes belly up because it's costs them twice as much as toyota in labor costs then there won't be any jobs left for the UAW to squable over.

So where an electrician, metalworkers, carpentry union provides training and certification and helps maintain a consistant quality of labor for contractors the UAW is basically there to do nothing but suck the money of its members and the company's they work for.

OUMike · September 25, 2007

Okay, so anyone who can help me understand chime in..

In the case of UAW, as I understand it anyone who pushes a mop makes $15 an hour. So if a UAW strike occurs like now, is it really foreseeable to just can everyone and bring in new meat? Would that benefit the public. I almost think you'd be breaking even, because of training expenses but your workers at least wouldn't be union.

Sounds to me like no more UAW = better, less expensive automobile.

OUMike · September 25, 2007

I have been a Union construction Electrician for 24 years, here in St. Louis. I alot of work in the GM van plant, and the Chrysler plants, among other places. I own a house worth 150k, an '05 Silvy, '00 Transam, and a '67 Caprice. I am hardly a rich man. I make a decent wage, because of a Union contract. We have NO job security-if you don't produce, you are down the road.

Scab electricians in the area earn about 50-60% of what we do. Many are illegal immigrants, because that is about all they can find to do this work for $15/hr here. Hell, we have a tough time finding young folks to do this work for $30/hr!

I have always been pro-union with anyone looking to better themsevles, but, with what I have read about GM's offer, it really isn't too bad. Not bad enough to strike over.

And, NO, a strike isn't a PAID VACATION! That is pure bullchit. If you ever have been on strike, you would know how silly that sounds. Yes, they might have a very meager, small "strike fund" set up, but, more than likely, its about enough to pay for groceries--if that.

I get a kick out of folks here, that have no actual knowlege of Unions, or how they work, saying assinine stuff like "unions are not needed". Wow. If anything, they are needed more than ever. How many people here have your spouse working, and kids shuffled off to a sitter? Do you know why that is? All of the good paying jobs are leaving, forcing us to have our wives working to make ends meet. Jobs that have been union, and, well paying. I can go on a BUNCH more over this.

If you read the article it states the UAW carries a $1 billion dollar strike fund. It also states that the UAW represents 180,000 workers. I'm not a mathematician but I think that works out to a lot more than enough to pay for groceries.

Unions are not needed. This isn't an opinion but simply a fact. Unions were created back in the 1800s to help protect workers against things like unsafe work practices, long hours and unfair wages. In modern times we have federal laws that protect workers against things that unions were initially formed to do. It is exactly like Social Security. Today people want to retire off it, but that was not its intended purpose.

I understand that some unions (like yours) may still serve a purpose in todays times, but unions like the UAW are doing nothing except poisoning the American auto industry. And people wonder why everyone drives around in Toyo's and Hondas .

overlord1 · September 25, 2007

Unions today are an anachronism and will be the downfall of the US auto industry imho. It doesn't matter that GM makes world class vehicles that are superior to the Japs in many cases. GM, Ford and Chrysler pay MUCH higher wages and provide expensive benefits demanded by union contracts that Toyota, Honda and Nissan do not have to pay. Auto workers should be paid the prevailing wages in their area for the work they do, period. Let the free market decide wages, not socialistic unions. This is what the Jap auto manufacturers do and they are much healthier financially than GM, Ford or Chrysler. I'm certain all workers in the US would like a written guarantee from their employeer that they will have a job in X number of years and that they will make X number of $$$. GM is suppose to predict market forces well into the future and guarantee jobs without even knowing IF there will be an auto industry left after the global warming wackos destroy our economy. I wish GM would call their bluff and give the unionists 24 hours to resume work or risk losing their job. I would bet that if GM canned the striking workers and posted employment offers starting at $15 per hour they would be inundated with applicants who would be grateful for such a job.

Zembonez · September 25, 2007

Unions today are an anachronism and will be the downfall of the US auto industry imho. It doesn't matter that GM makes world class vehicles that are superior to the Japs in many cases. GM, Ford and Chrysler pay MUCH higher wages and provide expensive benefits demanded by union contracts that Toyota, Honda and Nissan do not have to pay. Auto workers should be paid the prevailing wages in their area for the work they do, period. Let the free market decide wages, not socialistic unions. This is what the Jap auto manufacturers do and they are much healthier financially than GM, Ford or Chrysler. I'm certain all workers in the US would like a written guarantee from their employeer that they will have a job in X number of years and that they will make X number of $$$. GM is suppose to predict market forces well into the future and guarantee jobs without even knowing IF there will be an auto industry left after the global warming wackos destroy our economy. I wish GM would call their bluff and give the unionists 24 hours to resume work or risk losing their job. I would bet that if GM canned the striking workers and posted employment offers starting at $15 per hour they would be inundated with applicants who would be grateful for such a job.

AMEN, AMEN, AMEN!

Chuck S. · September 25, 2007

I have been a Union construction Electrician for 24 years, here in St. Louis. I alot of work in the GM van plant, and the Chrysler plants, among other places. I own a house worth 150k, an '05 Silvy, '00 Transam, and a '67 Caprice. I am hardly a rich man. I make a decent wage, because of a Union contract. We have NO job security-if you don't produce, you are down the road.

Scab electricians in the area earn about 50-60% of what we do. Many are illegal immigrants, because that is about all they can find to do this work for $15/hr here. Hell, we have a tough time finding young folks to do this work for $30/hr!

I have always been pro-union with anyone looking to better themsevles, but, with what I have read about GM's offer, it really isn't too bad. Not bad enough to strike over.

And, NO, a strike isn't a PAID VACATION! That is pure bullchit. If you ever have been on strike, you would know how silly that sounds. Yes, they might have a very meager, small "strike fund" set up, but, more than likely, its about enough to pay for groceries--if that.

I get a kick out of folks here, that have no actual knowlege of Unions, or how they work, saying assinine stuff like "unions are not needed". Wow. If anything, they are needed more than ever. How many people here have your spouse working, and kids shuffled off to a sitter? Do you know why that is? All of the good paying jobs are leaving, forcing us to have our wives working to make ends meet. Jobs that have been union, and, well paying. I can go on a BUNCH more over this.

Spoken like a true Union member.

I say PHOOOEY.

For the record. Most of the rustbelt jobs left BECAUSE of the unions. Doesn't take a PHD in economics to see why. I for one believe in a free market. Unions are PURELY SOCIALIST organizations designed for the benefit of members only... screw the public. This isn't my opinion.. it is fact.

Who can blame union members who are reaping the benefits for being loyal??? Sure... it's great when YOU are getting all of the fluff but it's not great for the rest of us who are taking it in the A-- when a strike makes auto supplies short or union wages and benefits drive prices through the roof.

Not all unions are bad or corrupt organizations. I know that. This also isn't an attack on Chuck. Had I been the recipient of the union's benefits for 24 years I might think differently but my belief is that most unions (UAW especially) are willing to blackmail companies for "better benefits" while they screw the rest of the country... Who can blame companies for taking jobs overseas?

Unions are fast becoming a thing of the past. Just look at their membership numbers if you don't believe me. Thank god I live where they don't have us by the shorthairs. (and never will)

Jim, I am glad for the decent responce. Normally, this is where it turns ugly, but, you are obviously a Gentleman that has a different opinion, and, thats cool by me.

I didn't say I agreed with the UAW on this one. I do, however, think Unions are a vital part of our economy.

In my Union the IBEW, we have in our agreement, that if you install the poorly, or, not correct, you repair it on your OWN time. Bonus for the customer.

We have no senority. If you are a slacker, you get smoked. Period.

Anyway, thanks, Jim, for the reply.

Chuck

Chuck S. · September 25, 2007

Unions today are an anachronism and will be the downfall of the US auto industry imho. It doesn't matter that GM makes world class vehicles that are superior to the Japs in many cases. GM, Ford and Chrysler pay MUCH higher wages and provide expensive benefits demanded by union contracts that Toyota, Honda and Nissan do not have to pay. Auto workers should be paid the prevailing wages in their area for the work they do, period. Let the free market decide wages, not socialistic unions. This is what the Jap auto manufacturers do and they are much healthier financially than GM, Ford or Chrysler. I'm certain all workers in the US would like a written guarantee from their employeer that they will have a job in X number of years and that they will make X number of $$$. GM is suppose to predict market forces well into the future and guarantee jobs without even knowing IF there will be an auto industry left after the global warming wackos destroy our economy. I wish GM would call their bluff and give the unionists 24 hours to resume work or risk losing their job. I would bet that if GM canned the striking workers and posted employment offers starting at $15 per hour they would be inundated with applicants who would be grateful for such a job.

Ed, Jim, you both use the word "Socialist". Why?

Isn't Socialism a from of government? Unions are made up of, controlled by, and run by individuals. Not a government.

A big item you all need to remember is this. IF you drop the union, and wages go to $15/hour, were do you stop?? When will $15/hr be too expensive, when the Japs shift to Chinese manufacturing, where, in most areas, have a "minimum wage" of between 80 cents to a buck ( US ) an hour. Then, GMFORDCHRYSLER whine about "competing" in the world economy. Would you be willing to lower your lifestyle to that of the average Chinese worker?? Maybe live at a dorm, in the plant? No safety rules. No future.

Like I said, where do you anit-union folks draw the line? I was raised to believe in the American way of life. A new car, nice house, and being able to send my kids to college. FIFTEEN FRICKEN BUCKS AN HOUR WON'T DO THAT!

Not all of us can be engineers (even they being outsourced to Asia), or CEO's. Some of us are destined to work for a living.

Anyway, I'm not a socialist. That is a term that, in my opinion, has been run into the ground by right wing radio in the past 15 years. Prior to Rush Limberger, that word was VERY rarley used. Im' neither a Democrat, nor Republican either.

Chuck