Has Anyone Gotten Help From Gm With Coolant Loss

boreguard · May 2, 2008

I just bought an '04 GMC Z-71 with the 5.3 V-8 from the company I work for, it's in great shape, been well cared for, yet has 145 K miles on it. During the process of making the deal with my employer we FINALLY discovered why this truck used coolant, but didn't leak it. It seems that the dealer we'd been taking the truck to (this is in another state where it was last used) finally confirmed that this truck has the Castech heads that are problematic and mentioned in a TSB entitled Phantom Coolant Loss. However they said there was nothing they could do and that GM wouldn't do anything about it either.

I bought the truck any way with the plan to either repair or replace the engine, but prior to doing so I wanted to try my hand with GM since this is a manfature defect. Although this is a not so common issue, it's certainly prolific enough that GM had to create a TSB to address the issue of the coolant loss.

My question is have any of you tried to persue GM for help with repairs, and if so have you had any luck at all ? My thoughts are that even though the truck has 145 K miles on it the dealer failed to discover the problem back in the 100 K mile range when the coolant loss became eye catching. They told us (when the diagnosis was finally made) that this problem doesn't seem to present itself until the engine has higher mileage on it.

If it's a factory defect that brought about this problem do you think I have any hope ?

Many thanks for your feedback.

Dennis

Groondogg · May 3, 2008

I have the same truck with 40k miles and over the past year have noticed the coolant loss. I took it into the dealer and they could not find a leak anywhere. The filled up my coolant and put dye in it to hopefully figure out what is going on.... It sounds like the same problem.

jrrod2004 · May 3, 2008

Here is that TSB that you are referring to:

Service Information

2004 GMC Truck GMC C Sierra - 2WD | Sierra, Silverado (VIN C/K) Service Manual | Document ID: 1986750 #06-06-01-019B: Information on Gradual Coolant Loss Over Time with No Evidence of Leak Found - (Jun 12, 2007)

Subject:Information on Gradual Coolant Loss Over Time With No Evidence of Leak Found

Models:2004-2006 Buick Rainier

2001-2006 Cadillac Escalade Models

2001-2006 Chevrolet Avalanche, Blazer, Silverado, Suburban, Tahoe, TrailBlazer Models

2001-2006 GMC Envoy, Jimmy, Sierra, Yukon Models

2001-2004 Oldsmobile Bravada

2005-2006 Saab 9-7X

with 4.8L or 5.3L VORTEC® GEN III, GEN IV V8 Engine (VINs V, T, M, B, Z -- RPOs LR4, LM7, LH6, L33, L59)

This bulletin is being revised to include engine RPO L59. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 06-06-01-019A (Section 06 - Engine/Propulsion System).

Some vehicles may experience a gradual coolant loss over time. A very low percentage of cylinder head(s) manufactured with an embossed Castech logo may develop a porosity crack in a very specific area.

Inspect the cylinder head assembly to determine if the casting was manufactured by Castech. This can be accomplished by inspecting for their casting logo located on top of the intake port, under the rocker arm support rail and in the spring deck cavity portion of the cylinder head.

Important: If the cylinder head(s) are Not a Castech casting, follow normal diagnostic procedures in SI to determine the cause of the coolant loss.

Refer to the following illustrations on how to identify Castech casting and/or the very specific areas of the cylinder head(s) for a coolant leak from porosity.

Cylinder head(s) location of the Castech manufacturing casting logo (1).

Close up view of the cylinder head(s) showing the Castech manufacturing casting logo (1).

If the cylinder head(s) is a Castech casting (1), inspect the area around the five oil drain holes for witness marks indicating coolant seepage over time (2).

Important: If No evidence of coolant loss is found on inspection of Castech casting cylinder head(s), follow normal diagnostic procedures in SI to determine the cause of the coolant loss.

The crack location can be found in any of the five cylinder head(s) oil drains. This can be seen as a clean or shiny area, on an otherwise stained surface (1). Pressurizing the cooling system at this time may reveal coolant, air, or a combination, weeping in the described area. If inspection reveals evidence of coolant witness marks (1), replace the entire cylinder head(s) assembly.

GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.

WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION

at this point in the truck's life, I seriously doubt anybody would want to do anything based on what the truck might have been put through (liability issues)

jrrod2004 · May 3, 2008

Service Information

2004 GMC Truck GMC C Sierra - 2WD | Sierra, Silverado (VIN C/K) Service Manual | Document ID: 1566698 #03-06-02-005B: Engine Coolant Loss with No Visible Leaks (Reseal Injector Sleeve) - (Nov 18, 2004)

Subject:Engine Coolant Loss with No Visible Leaks (Reseal Injector Sleeve)

Models:2001-2004 Chevrolet Silverado

2001-2004 GMC Sierra

2003-2004 Chevrolet and GMC C4500/5500 Models

with 6.6L Diesel Engine (VIN1 - RPO LB7)

This bulletin is being revised to add technician cautions. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 03-06-02-005A (Section 06-Engine).

Condition

Some owners may comment on engine coolant loss with no visible leaks. Excessive white smoke or a coolant type odor coming from the exhaust pipe, along with low coolant levels, may indicate coolant in the combustion chamber.

Cause

Condition may be caused by engine coolant entering the cylinder due to a dirty or damaged seal between the fuel injector sleeve and the cylinder head.

Correction

Perform the following diagnosis to determine the cause of the coolant loss.

External/Internal Coolant Leaks:
1.1. Verify that there are no external coolant leaks. Refer to the Loss of Coolant procedure in the Engine Cooling section of the Service Manual.

1.2. If the vehicle is equipped with an Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) system, inspect the EGR valve and intake system for evidence of internal coolant leakage. Replace the EGR cooler if any condition is found. Refer to Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Valve Cooler Tube Replacement procedure in the Engine Controls -- 6.6L sub-section of the Service Manual.
Cooling System Pressurization:

2.1. On a cold engine with the cooling system depressurized, install the J 24460-01 Radiator Pressure Tester.

2.2. Start the engine and bring it to operating temperature.

2.3. Shut off the engine.

2.4. Using the J 24460-01 Radiator Pressure Tester, bring the cooling system pressure to 15 psi (103 kPa).

2.5. Allow the engine to cool. Observe for a drop in the cooing system pressure.

2.6. Disable the fuel system by removing the IGN 1 relay on C/K trucks or the IGN B relay on C4500/5500 trucks using the J 43244 Relay Puller Pliers.

2.7. Disconnect the 4-wire glow plug control circuit connector from the glow plug relay/controller assembly.

2.8. Remove the glow plugs. Refer to the Glow Plug Replacement -- Bank 1 and the Glow Plug Replacement -- Bank 2 procedures in the Engine Controls -- 6.6L sub-section of the Service Manual. Inspect for evidence of coolant on the glow plug tips. Note any cylinders that show evidence of coolant leakage.

Caution: Keep hands and face clear of glow plug holes while cranking. Hot liquid or gases may be expelled during cranking.

2.9. Place white paper in front of all the glow plug holes and crank the engine over for two compression strokes.

2.10. Inspect the paper for evidence of coolant and note the appropriate cylinders.

2.11. Release the pressure from the cooling system and remove the J 24460-01 Radiator Pressure Tester.
Cylinder Leakage Test:
3.1. Rotate the engine to bring the cylinder to be tested to Top Dead Center.

3.2. Install the J 35667-9 Cylinder Head Leakdown Adapter and the J 35667-A Cylinder Head Leakdown Tester to the cylinder.

3.3. Apply shop air to the J 3566-7 Cylinder Head Leakdown Tester and adjust according to the manufacturer's instructions.

3.4. Inspect for excessive cylinder leakage and air bubbles in the cooling system.

3.5. Repeat steps 3.1 through 3.4 for each cylinder. Note any cylinders that indicate leakage.
Inspection and Repair:
4.1. Remove the fuel injector sleeves of the cylinders that show evidence of coolant leakage. Refer to the Fuel Injector Sleeve Replacement procedure in the Engine Mechanical -- 6.6L sub-section of the Service Manual.

4.2. Inspect the inside of the fuel injector sleeve for damage to the fuel injector sealing surface. Damage to this portion of the fuel injector sleeve may indicate a loose injector caused by improper tightening or a missing copper washer. A loose injector will allow the fuel injector and the fuel injector sleeve to bounce inside the cylinder head, resulting in coolant leakage to the cylinder. If damage is found, replace the affected components.

4.3. Inspect the tapered sealing surface of the cylinder head and the fuel injector sleeve (1) for evidence of machining debris, carbon tracking, improper machining or damage. If improper machining or damage is found, replace the affected component. If there is machining debris found on the fuel injector sleeve or cylinder head sealing surfaces, clean the debris and reinstall the fuel injector sleeve. Refer to Fuel Injector Sleeve Replacement in the Engine Mechanical -- 6.6L sub-section of the Service Manual.

4.4. If no debris or damage is found on the fuel injector sleeve or the fuel injector sleeve bore in the cylinder head, remove the cylinder head and inspect the cylinder head and gasket for damage. Replace components as necessary.

Warranty Information

For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:

Labor Operation

Description

Labor Time

J0497

Sleeve, Fuel Injector - Right Bank - Replace

3.4 hrs

Add:

To Replace Each

0.1 hr

Add:

To Replace All

0.3 hr

J0498

Sleeve, Fuel Injector - Left Bank - Replace

4.4 hrs

Add:

To Replace Each

0.1 hr

Add:

To Replace All

0.3 hr

J0499

Sleeve, Fuel Injector - Both Banks - Replace

7.5 hrs

Add:

To Replace Each

0.1 hr

Add:

To Replace All - Both Banks

0.6 hr

GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.

WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION

Here is another TSB that may be related (or might be an earlier version of the one posted above)

jrrod2004 · May 3, 2008

I seriously doubt that GM will do anything at this point, especially since you are not the original owner and they can say 'that truck was ran hard'. I do not remember it coming up with any DVM field office reps or coming into the customer service complaint area

rib-tips · September 12, 2008

I have a 2005 Silverado LT 5.3 that had the same problem at approx 70K miles... Chevrolet did a rebuild on this motor. I have an extended warranty and had other items repaired at that time also, so I do not know if the deductible paid for it, or if Chevy "ate" the cost. The problem has since been fuel mileage. Prior to the rebuild, my MPG was 17 city, 20 hwy...post rebuild, 12.5-13.5 city, and 15-15.5 hwy. No one can seem to figure out the 5 MPG loss. We've tried reprogramming with new updates since then, but to no avail as of yet. The service manager I spoke with said there are/were approx 20,000 vehicles that have the Castech heads. TSB #06-06-01-019B Models: 2004-2006 Buick Rainier 2001-2006 Cadillac Escalade Models 2001-2006 Chevrolet Avalanche, Blazer, Silverado, Suburban, Tahoe, Trailblazer Models 2001-2006 GMC Envoy, Jimmy, Sierra, Yukon Models 2001-2004 Oldsmobile Bravada 2005-2006 Sabb 9-7x all above with 4.8L or 5.3L VORTECH GEN III, GEN IV V8 Engine (VINs V, T, M, B, Z --RPOs LR4, LM7, LH6, L33, L59) GOOD LUCK...God knows I still need it with mine!!!

csheatz · September 12, 2008

Damn now I have to go check mine because i fall into those groups.......

jrrod2004 · September 12, 2008

same here, the probable reason for the MPG loss is the new parts (Think like if it was a new engine), they probably have not broken in yet. (Or they used heavier parts than last time)

1ntimid8r · September 13, 2008

I have the same issue on my '01 Chevy. There is no way I'm going through the expense of replacing a cylinder head. I have never found coolant in the oil pan. I'm guessing this is such a minor crack that the coolant burns off.