Jump to content

A Myriad Of Trans Q's.

GQ-01

Recommended Posts

GQ-01 Enthusiast

GQ-01

Posted
Posted

A few months back, I was accelerating on an onramp from one highway to another and I noticed a metallic grinding sound. I immediately pulled over, and based on the sound, guessed that something might have happened to a brake rotor. One by one, I jacked the wheels up and spun them with all my manual might, but I couldn't reproduce the sound. Having had the transmission rebuilt once already at about 65,000 miles, I feared the worst and had the truck towed home. I did more diagnosing at home by pushing my truck around the parking lot and seeing what conditions reproduced the noise. Huge waste of time and energy, however, as I don't know anything about trucks or automatic transmissions, but the bet was on u-joints. I got the number of a trusted mechanic about a mile from home and drove my truck there. His prognosis was that the planetary gears in first gear are failing (my previous transmission suffered the same fate at 65,000 miles). He came to this conclusion based that the sound went away as soon as the truck shifted into second gear.

 

The mechanic offered to rebuild the transmission for about $1,600, but not having the money I declined. I just shifted into second gear and started off from there. I rarely drive my truck as my primary transportation is my Harley, so I wasn't overly concerned. Not too long ago, however, I only got about a block from home when my engine was cranking out rpm's, and not turning the wheels (as luck would have it, I had already crossed the intersection). Now you have the facts, here are my questions.

 

My first transmission failed at around 65,000 miles, and then at 122,000 miles, establishing a grim 65,000 mile interval. Is the planetary gear failure coming from another culprit, or is my powertrain just consistently unlucky? Both times, failure was sudden, much more so the first time. The first failure ended catastrophically on a highway miles outside of town, grinding violently and horribly. This time, like I said, it was a smooth grind, like a brake rotor dragging lightly (if you could hear that through the cab), ultimately ending in a slipping transmission. Now that the transmission isn't transferring power, there is no noticeable grinding.

 

Is the transmission slipping now because of the clutch somehow failing from all the second gear starts? Again, I don't hear any grinding coming from the transmission at all. The motor just performs beautifully.

 

Many transmission rebuilders in town have bad reports online. It begs the question, is rebuilding ever worthwhile or should I buy a new transmission? I started shopping on Summit Racing and eventually found an appealing match on GM Performance Parts: Part# 19156259 4L60E 4-speed automatic transmission. On that note, I'm driving a 2002 GMC Sierra 1500, extended cab, 6'6" fleetside bed, 2WD. So how can I tell if the Gen III/IV transmission will work for me, or will I need the Gen I/II conversion? Here's a link to the site where I found the prospect. It's the only 4L60E on the page; the rest are 65, 85, etc. Lastly for transmissions, will a new transmission be all I need or will I need a new torque converter, too? I don't even fully understand how the torque converter does what it does… or exactly what it does, for that matter. I just know a local shop here requires a new one in order to get a warranty on their work.

 

My next question concerns Tow/Haul mode, and transmission coolers. I think my truck originally had a hitch receiver on it, but it didn't when I bought it, used with 36,000 miles. I bought a GM weight distributing hitch online, and expect to do some towing in the future (the occasional move, and hopefully one day hauling bikes to/from tracks). A friend suggested that if the truck has a Tow/Haul mode button in the shifter (and lights up in the dash), that my truck has a transmission cooler already. Looking at the radiator, I see what appears to be a smaller radiator, low and in front of the engine's radiator. Is that an oil cooler or do I have a transmission cooler?

 

This was my first vehicle, and I'm extremely reluctant to give up on it. This truck and I have been through a whole hell of a lot together. I have over 122,000 miles on it, and I wouldn't mind taking it to 300,000 miles, but not if I have to replace the transmission every 65,000 miles! I appreciate any input y'all have.

Nytemare Senior Enthusiast

Nytemare

Posted
Posted

Ok...that is a lot of questions.

 

I would buy a GM replacement trans...as it has a 3 year warranty...and yes you have to buy a new torque converter.

The replacement trans is not that much more than the rebuild.

 

you have a gen III LS Style engine in your truck, provided you have a V8. Even if you have the V6...you still have the Gen III style trans.

 

The 4L60E trans is one of the most abundant transmissions out there. Pretty much everything that's auto and RWD/4X4 from GM has one...until you get into the 3/4 tonne realm and larger. But I haven't heard of them failing every 65K miles. They're not the greatest trans on the market, but they're stronger than that.

 

BTW...so you know....just because your shifter is in 2nd, doesn't mean your trans is in 2nd...it doesn't work like that...it will only shift up to 2nd...and if you rev it out far enough...it will still go to 3rd, that's a safety feature. What you lost as you crossed the intersection was the last remnant of your 1st gear...or maybe more of them, depending on your speed and RPM at the time.

 

The Tow/haul button is on all Auto Silverado's from 99 up....maybe before that. This doesn't mean you have a trans cooler...the small rad you see up front could be a "rad" for the power steering, depends on what lines are going into it...you have to follow them back.

jro909 Senior Enthusiast

jro909

Posted
Posted

the small radiator is for the tranny...look for z85 in the rpo codes in the glove box, thats for the heavy duty trailering package, which comes with a cooler and a hitch stock....the majority of people will say rebuild, me, i'd just buy a new one with a warranty....those trannys are russian roulette some go 20k some go 300k its just hit and miss, the main problem i've heard that goes out is the main planatary gear, most people rebuild with something called the beast...idk just get a new one from gm (**** the 60 go for the 65, it takes a bigger beating) or overhaul up to the 80, yes it bolts up.

Nytemare Senior Enthusiast

Nytemare

Posted
Posted

Depends...I have a trans cooler...but it didn't come with the trailer hitch. Or even wired for one. Its trailer hitch ready...and wired to the bumper, but the hitch and harness is dealer installed...or so I was told. I know its never had a hitch on it.

gmtech4 Senior Enthusiast

gmtech4

Posted
Posted

sorry ,the GM rebuilt tranny has a torque converter with it ,the tech will also flush the factory cooler and check the flow rate thru the cooler for warranty pruposes,and the 3yr warranty they come with ,I bought one before I left the dealer ,cost +10%,smokin deal

Nytemare Senior Enthusiast

Nytemare

Posted
Posted

Cool didnt know they came with the TC...that's an even better deal than...hell even if you have to pay full price for it..Its still worth it.

 

3 year warranty, complete with a TC and they flush all your lines and cooler...Sorry....But you'd be a Moron not to do this.

 

Whats the price for a fully installed replacement Rob...for someone that has to pay full price?

GQ-01 Enthusiast

GQ-01

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thanks for the quick response, gents. Sorry I forgot to mention I have the 5.3 L V8. You're certain 60 and 65 transmissions are interchangeable? Is it more reliable than the 60? My suspension is set up for 1/2 ton towing, and it's unlikely I'll change that because of how comfortable the ride is right now. So, would the 65 be a worthwhile investment?

Nytemare Senior Enthusiast

Nytemare

Posted
Posted

65 is basically the same trans as the 60 nut with a 5 pinion planetary set and stronger sun shell.

Basically its the factory upgraded 60

 

 

All the trans will interchange...even the 4L80E its just a matter of changing a few things...

Your best bet though is to go with a 65...you don't need any modifications to make it fit than.

GQ-01 Enthusiast

GQ-01

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Great, I want one, then. Any ideas about consistently breaking down at 65,000 miles?

Nytemare Senior Enthusiast

Nytemare

Posted
Posted
Great, I want one, then. Any ideas about consistently breaking down at 65,000 miles?

Karma???

 

Are you a heavy right footer? Do you engine brake a lot, (dropping it in a lower gear to slow down) cause that's not good for your trans.

Do stupid things like neutral drops, or brake burnouts?

 

 

If not you just have bad Karma.

GQ-01 Enthusiast

GQ-01

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Great, I want one, then. Any ideas about consistently breaking down at 65,000 miles?

Karma???

 

Are you a heavy right footer? Do you engine brake a lot, (dropping it in a lower gear to slow down) cause that's not good for your trans.

Do stupid things like neutral drops, or brake burnouts?

 

 

If not you just have bad Karma.

 

 

 

Ha, I lead a pretty good life, I think! I'm just worried that something's out of alignment.

gmtech4 Senior Enthusiast

gmtech4

Posted
Posted

July 08

 

'93 4l60E retails CDN $ 2475 without core charges,I paid $2001. ,

 

plus the taps cells should be cleared so the adaptive process can start again

gmtech4 Senior Enthusiast

gmtech4

Posted
Posted

sorry ,labour for a 4WD generally is gonna be 7.5 hrs to flip it ,includes the flush of cooler and scanner time

 

DO NOT QUOTE ME ON THIS ONE PLEASE ,but its close ya know lol

 

any diag will be extra,but if ya go in and say order me a SRTA and put it in ,then thats it plus oil and t- case gasket

 

I would as a customer want to see the labour in the book,being aware of any add ons if applicable

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing

  • Latest Articles

  • Posts

    • SFC Retired
      2023 DRW Wheel Liners

      By SFC Retired · Posted

      Did have to make 1 modification because of the WeatherTech rear mud flaps and that was needing 3 longer screws than what came with the install package. 😄
    • SFC Retired
      2023 DRW Wheel Liners

      By SFC Retired · Posted

      Picked up the liners yesterday. Installed passenger side WITHOUT any modifications. All mounting holes lined up perfectly. Rain is interfering today with drivers side. Very Happy! Will add pics when finished
    • KARNUT
      OCI, not when but why?

      By KARNUT · Posted

      As a matter of amusement I’ll leave this conversation with this. Do you beat the government average fuel estimate? Statistics are a guide to me. Not a rule. Someone once said I have to have the last word. If true and possible may be. I’ll blame that on working in a family business.
    • bluev8
      Intermittent no-code issues on 2022.5+ V8 trucks — what did the shop fail to capture?

      By bluev8 · Posted

      That is a fair point, and I agree that trying to log “everything in the truck” would be the wrong direction.   There are a lot of modules and a lot of traffic. If the product became a full-truck datalogger, the amount of data would get huge very quickly, and most owners would never use it.   I think the first useful version would need to be narrow: - powertrain-side event evidence - selected high-value parameters - communication / voltage / reset events - pre/post event window - short report first, raw log only as backup   One distinction I should make is between active OBD/PID polling and passive bus capture. If you are polling PIDs through OBD, then yes: the more parameters you request, the lower the effective sample rate becomes, and you are adding diagnostic traffic to a vehicle that is already busy running itself. With passive CAN capture, the recorder is not asking all the modules for data. It is listening to traffic that is already on the bus. So it does not consume vehicle bus bandwidth in the same way that a scan tool polling hundreds of PIDs would. But your point still applies in a different way.   Even if passive capture does not add bus traffic, the recorder still has limits: - processing rate - storage rate - timestamp accuracy - decoder workload - event filtering - report size - user attention span   So the answer cannot be “log everything and let the user figure it out.” The product would need to store enough raw evidence to be useful, but only decode, graph, and present the important parts around the event.   A practical report should probably show: - what triggered the capture - how much pre/post data was preserved - which selected parameters changed - how those values compared to baseline - whether the same pattern happened before - whether any voltage, reset, bus-off, lost-message, or communication fault occurred - selected graphs around the event - raw data only as supporting evidence   So I agree with you. More data is not automatically better. The real product is the reduction from raw data into a useful event report.
    • bluev8
      Intermittent no-code issues on 2022.5+ V8 trucks — what did the shop fail to capture?

      By bluev8 · Posted

      That makes sense, and I agree with most of that.   I think the product would need both: 1. a default powertrain template, so it is useful out of the box; 2. user-selected priority parameters, so the owner or shop can choose what they want to see first.   Different users are going to care about different things. One owner may care about oil pressure and voltage. Another may care about misfire trend, AFM/DFM behavior, or U-codes. A shop may want communication events and repeatability first. Your baseline point is probably the most important one. Raw data is not very useful unless the report can show what normal looked like for that vehicle under similar conditions.   The way I would think about it is: - start with a basic known-good baseline - learn normal behavior for that specific vehicle over time - allow the event to be overlaid against baseline - show whether the event was a one-time spike or a repeatable pattern - provide a simple severity level, but with clear limits on what that severity means   For example, early severity could be something like: - Info: event captured, no obvious abnormal pattern - Watch: value moved outside baseline, but not repeated - Warning: repeatable abnormal pattern under similar conditions - Critical: communication loss, voltage drop, bus-off, reset, or severe repeated event   I would not want the first version to say “replace this part.” That would be overclaiming unless there is repair-confirmed data behind it. It would be more honest to say “this pattern deserves inspection.”   On the OBD port question, I think OBD absolutely has a role. OBD is probably the right place for: - DTCs - freeze frame - VIN - calibration information - normal scan-tool parameters - Mode 6 / enhanced diagnostic data if available The reason I am still looking at an ECM-side recorder is that the failure may happen before anyone connects a scan tool. If the owner plugs in a scanner after the event, the pre-event evidence may already be gone unless the ECU happened to save it. So I do not see this as “OBD versus ECM-side.” I see it more like: - ECM-side recorder: always armed, rolling buffer, event evidence - OBD/DLC companion: DTCs, freeze frame, VIN, calibration, normal scan data - phone/cloud: status, notes, upload, report generation, notifications   I agree that phone connection and push notifications would be useful. I just would not want the phone or cloud connection to be required for capture. The recorder should save the event locally even if the phone is not connected. The phone should help with event marking, download, notes, upload, alerts, and report viewing.   For a default GM V8 event report, would this list make sense? - RPM - calculated load / MAP - throttle position - vehicle speed - gear / torque converter state if available - coolant temperature - oil pressure - oil temperature if available - battery voltage - commanded AFM/DFM state if available - actual AFM/DFM state if available - misfire counters / roughness by cylinder if available - fuel trims - relevant U-codes / communication events - bus-off / lost periodic message / module reset / voltage drop events Which of those would you remove, and what would you add?

  • GM-Trucks.com Clubs

  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...