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Predator Diablo Vs. Blackbear Tune


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I am not sure you can tweak a custom tune on the predator either. You might be able to but the tweaking is very limited. Engine wise you can basically change spark advance and fuel trims. But it will drive you nuts trying to get your LTFT correct. Every single time you check them they will be different. And once your ignition timing is set in the custom tune there shuold not be any need for adjustment. Most of the calibrations that make a custom ECM tune so great are not available to you on the predator.

 

I had a Predator on an 02 Avalanche. I felt it was a benefit to that vehicle, but that was because it had TCM support. I have never had a custom CMR tune on the predator. I am not sure if anyone offers custom TCM tunes on the older predators. I do not know if you can make adjustments on the TCM with a custom tune because the programming is not broken out into 2 stages like it is on the newer stuff. The newer stuff programs the ECM and the TCM seperately. On the 99 it just programs the PCM so if you are loading a custom CMR tune, I am not sure if you can make the same tweaks you can on the canned diablo tunes.

 

My advice is:

 

If you just want to play around with some settings on your own. Get the Predator.

 

If you want a definate performance boost with honest quality customer support. Go with BB.

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I see this has created some further discussion which was my intent. The OP was asking for opinions so I was providing other options for consideration. In order to give the OP the best options, I was asking who's had BOTH types of custom tunes to compare which is better. Comparing a canned Predator tune to a BB tune is no contest. BB wins everytime. How many out there have tried a BB tune AND a CUSTOM Predator tune? Those that have had both can give a better opinion which is best.

 

The five tune comparison was intented to bring all the possibilities on to a an even cost plain for consideration. The table attempts to provide the individual tuning cost options for one, two, three, four, or five tunes. I myself don't see the need for more than two tunes. Unless you race. In this case you may want more than two tunes.

 

What cannot be factored into the cost is the ability to make minor adjustments to the tune without sending the tune to the tuner. In this case, the Predator can do this on the fly. The Autocal option is faster than the three remaining options, but you need to data log, email, and wait for the tuner to return your custom tune.

 

As Jenna pointed out in a previous post, GM parsed out transmission control to the TCM in 2007. So older models, like my 2000 Silverado, the transmission is controlled by the PCM and both the Predator or a BB tune are valid options. Newer model GM trucks with a TCM shouldn't buy into the Predator. Their choices are left with the BB tuning options at this time. The Trinity by Diablo Sport still doesn't support the TCM at this time. The Predator never will.

 

I'm still waiting to hear from that one guy whose had both types of tunes: BB vs custom Predator tune by a CMR tuner.

 

i was also trying to explain this concept. BUT with the diablo custom tune you get free retuning, and extra tunes for as long as you own your truck. just as the BB

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i was also trying to explain this concept. BUT with the diablo custom tune you get free retuning, and extra tunes for as long as you own your truck. just as the BB

 

 

Just out of curiosity, can you make adjustments to the normal stuff like tire size and fuel trims and load the custom tune?

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I'm still waiting to hear from that one guy whose had both types of tunes: BB vs custom Predator tune by a CMR tuner.

 

I know there are a few folks on here who have had both...hopefully they will post up for you.

 

 

 

I'm one of those who have had both, and hands down, without a doubt, No comparison. BB is better :D It's as simple as that. All bull-puck aside.

 

I did like the diablo sport, but the difference was night and day. This was on an 07 Vmax. I tried to stay out of it, but I just couldn't any more.

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Alright, there's a lot of confusing comparisons going in this thread (and other threads). I have yet to find one comparison between a BB tune and Diablo Predator custom tune done by a CMR tuner.

 

First question; is there anyone who has had BOTH a BB tune AND a Diablo Predator custom tune (NOT A CANNED DIABLO PREDATOR TUNE) that can provide their opinion which is better or equal in performance? Of all the threads (including this one) I have read, I have yet been able to tell from posters comparing the two what they are basing the comparison on - a canned Diablo tune vs a BB tune or a custom Diablo tune vs a BB tune. There's no doubt in my mind that a BB tune vs a Diablo canned tune would be a BB tune beats a Diablo canned tune hands down.

 

This comparison is important to anyone concerned with costs. Add things up. A single custom Diablo Predator tune will end up costing you about $430 ($275 for the Predator, $50 for the cables, and $105 for the custom tune). That's the minimum for one custom tune. Additional tunes beyond minor adjustments will cost you another $105. The Predator will store up to five custom tunes. Given that, total gross cost potential for five custom tunes with the Predator is $850. Once you have the custom tune loaded, your Predator still allows you to tweak some parameters to fit your needs without sending it back to the tuner.

 

With a BB tune, it varies somewhat. Black Bear's website will sell you an Autocal for $549. The device will store up to five tunes but the website speaks to four tunes being included with that price. The fifth tune would carry a nominal fee they don't specify. One can only make assumptions what the total gross cost potential for five tunes may be in comparison with the Predator. Black Bear charges $300 for a data-logging tune. Assuming this, total gross cost potential for five custom tunes with the Autocal is $849. Once you have the BB tune loaded, you will need to send the tune to BB to tweak the tune more to fit your needs. One advantage with the Autocal over the Predator is the ability to tune up to eight different vehicles but I assume at an additional price they don't specify.

 

Black Bear's other options include a traditional tune ($200) where you give them some details and they write a tune for you, an in person tune ($250) where they use their equipment to log data from you vehicle while driving and write a tune, and a data-logging tune ($300) where you log data using their equipment and you send them this data to write a tune. These are net values given equipment or core charges are refunded.

 

So, here's how I see this shaking out:

 

Tuner One Tune Two Tunes Three Tunes Four Tunes Five Tunes

 

Predator $430 $535 $640 $745 $850

BB w/Autocal $549 $549 $549 $549 $849

BB traditional $200 $400 $600 $800 $1,000

BB in-person $250 $500 $750 $1,000 $1,250

BB data-logging $300 $600 $900 $1,200 $1,500

 

and why does your pricing continue to go up up up for the predator tunes?? I don't charge any extra for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 custom tunes... one price covers your vehicle for any future tunes/changes needed...

 

but yes, every custom tuner is different, so other's might...

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Very good point of pricing multiple tunes, but why would I need 5 custom tunes? 2 would probably be more than enough. 1 for economy and 1 for no holds barred fun. :thumbs: If I ever mess with tuning it will be a black bear tune. You failed to mention in your pricing that the predator can't tune the TCM (transmission module) so the predator should cost alot less since it only tunes half the overall product on the newer trucks.

 

 

Agre 100%

 

Custom diablo tune or not, the predator will only do half the tuning. The TCM tuning capability of the autocal is easily worth the extra $120 based on earlier posted prices.

 

It does not matter how many tunes these devices will hold because you store them on a computer and transfer them to the tuners as needed.

 

In my personal opinion it is a matter of principle against Diablo. They have always promised to provide TCM support for predator owners with a gmt900. Yet they are the only tuning company to not yet have TCM support for a gmt900. That just does not seem right... :D

 

 

 

but what about if we're talking about a 99 silverado? predator can tune the exact same parameters as bb autocal right?

 

 

yes!

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I am not sure you can tweak a custom tune on the predator either. You might be able to but the tweaking is very limited. Engine wise you can basically change spark advance and fuel trims. But it will drive you nuts trying to get your LTFT correct. Every single time you check them they will be different. And once your ignition timing is set in the custom tune there shuold not be any need for adjustment. Most of the calibrations that make a custom ECM tune so great are not available to you on the predator.

 

I had a Predator on an 02 Avalanche. I felt it was a benefit to that vehicle, but that was because it had TCM support. I have never had a custom CMR tune on the predator. I am not sure if anyone offers custom TCM tunes on the older predators. I do not know if you can make adjustments on the TCM with a custom tune because the programming is not broken out into 2 stages like it is on the newer stuff. The newer stuff programs the ECM and the TCM seperately. On the 99 it just programs the PCM so if you are loading a custom CMR tune, I am not sure if you can make the same tweaks you can on the canned diablo tunes.

 

My advice is:

 

If you just want to play around with some settings on your own. Get the Predator.

 

If you want a definate performance boost with honest quality customer support. Go with BB.

 

yes, you can still make your own changes/adjustments to a custom tune, just like you can with any of the preset Diablo tunes.. and very limited??? I think not.. the diablo tools offer the most adjustability of any handhelds...

 

as for tcm tunes on older predators/vehicles - older vehicles do not have a separate TCM module.. there is a single PCM that controls BOTH the engine and transmission settings.. so YES, the tranny settings are fully adjustable, and are completely customizable via custom tuning - ask me how I know :D

 

and yes, on the older vehicles, you can still adjust the tranny parameters yourself even with a custom tune...

 

wtf.. where does this bad/wrong/bogus info come from???!!!

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i was also trying to explain this concept. BUT with the diablo custom tune you get free retuning, and extra tunes for as long as you own your truck. just as the BB

 

 

Just out of curiosity, can you make adjustments to the normal stuff like tire size and fuel trims and load the custom tune?

 

 

YES!!

 

getting a custom tune does not disable the parameter adjustments in the tool :D:thumbs:

 

you can still make adjustments yourself with a custom tune installed, just like you can with one of the diablo tunes installed...

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I am not sure you can tweak a custom tune on the predator either. You might be able to but the tweaking is very limited. Engine wise you can basically change spark advance and fuel trims. But it will drive you nuts trying to get your LTFT correct. Every single time you check them they will be different. And once your ignition timing is set in the custom tune there shuold not be any need for adjustment. Most of the calibrations that make a custom ECM tune so great are not available to you on the predator.

 

I had a Predator on an 02 Avalanche. I felt it was a benefit to that vehicle, but that was because it had TCM support. I have never had a custom CMR tune on the predator. I am not sure if anyone offers custom TCM tunes on the older predators. I do not know if you can make adjustments on the TCM with a custom tune because the programming is not broken out into 2 stages like it is on the newer stuff. The newer stuff programs the ECM and the TCM seperately. On the 99 it just programs the PCM so if you are loading a custom CMR tune, I am not sure if you can make the same tweaks you can on the canned diablo tunes.

 

My advice is:

 

If you just want to play around with some settings on your own. Get the Predator.

 

If you want a definate performance boost with honest quality customer support. Go with BB.

 

yes, you can still make your own changes/adjustments to a custom tune, just like you can with any of the preset Diablo tunes.. and very limited??? I think not.. the diablo tools offer the most adjustability of any handhelds...

 

as for tcm tunes on older predators/vehicles - older vehicles do not have a separate TCM module.. there is a single PCM that controls BOTH the engine and transmission settings.. so YES, the tranny settings are fully adjustable, and are completely customizable via custom tuning - ask me how I know :lol:

 

and yes, on the older vehicles, you can still adjust the tranny parameters yourself even with a custom tune...

 

wtf.. where does this bad/wrong/bogus info come from???!!!

 

 

 

 

What bad info? My point was that on the older vehicles with a PCM I was unsure if you could make adjustments to the shifting and still utilize the custom tune. That is why I asked. I could see where you could use a DiabLEW tune and still make shifting changes if it downloaded in 2 phases. I was not sure if you had the same menu options on the predator with a custom tune.

 

On older vehicles the tuning is one step, the PCM download because that controls the entire powertrain. That is why it is called a powertrain control module. On the gmt 900's there is an ECM (engine contol module) and a TCM (transmission control module). The newer stuff is tuned in 2 stages. Each module is donwloaded seperately. Atleast from all the handhelds except Diablo. Where is the bad information?

 

The predator might have the most adjustability of any handheld, but the adjustments are still pretty limited. Like I said, a person can go crazy trying to dial in the LTFT's. They change every day with the weather, so what is the point really. Once you get a custom tune there would be no need to adjust anything more on the engine side of things. And since you offer no TCM support for gmt 900's. You practically have no more adjustability than anything else out there.

 

The only bogus info that has been thrown out is the promise of TCM support for Predator users. :D

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I am not sure you can tweak a custom tune on the predator either. You might be able to but the tweaking is very limited. Engine wise you can basically change spark advance and fuel trims. But it will drive you nuts trying to get your LTFT correct. Every single time you check them they will be different. And once your ignition timing is set in the custom tune there shuold not be any need for adjustment. Most of the calibrations that make a custom ECM tune so great are not available to you on the predator.

 

I had a Predator on an 02 Avalanche. I felt it was a benefit to that vehicle, but that was because it had TCM support. I have never had a custom CMR tune on the predator. I am not sure if anyone offers custom TCM tunes on the older predators. I do not know if you can make adjustments on the TCM with a custom tune because the programming is not broken out into 2 stages like it is on the newer stuff. The newer stuff programs the ECM and the TCM seperately. On the 99 it just programs the PCM so if you are loading a custom CMR tune, I am not sure if you can make the same tweaks you can on the canned diablo tunes.

 

My advice is:

 

If you just want to play around with some settings on your own. Get the Predator.

 

If you want a definate performance boost with honest quality customer support. Go with BB.

 

yes, you can still make your own changes/adjustments to a custom tune, just like you can with any of the preset Diablo tunes.. and very limited??? I think not.. the diablo tools offer the most adjustability of any handhelds...

 

as for tcm tunes on older predators/vehicles - older vehicles do not have a separate TCM module.. there is a single PCM that controls BOTH the engine and transmission settings.. so YES, the tranny settings are fully adjustable, and are completely customizable via custom tuning - ask me how I know :lol:

 

and yes, on the older vehicles, you can still adjust the tranny parameters yourself even with a custom tune...

 

wtf.. where does this bad/wrong/bogus info come from???!!!

 

 

 

 

What bad info? My point was that on the older vehicles with a PCM I was unsure if you could make adjustments to the shifting and still utilize the custom tune. That is why I asked. I could see where you could use a DiabLEW tune and still make shifting changes if it downloaded in 2 phases. I was not sure if you had the same menu options on the predator with a custom tune.

 

On older vehicles the tuning is one step, the PCM download because that controls the entire powertrain. That is why it is called a powertrain control module. On the gmt 900's there is an ECM (engine contol module) and a TCM (transmission control module). The newer stuff is tuned in 2 stages. Each module is donwloaded seperately. Atleast from all the handhelds except Diablo. Where is the bad information?

 

The predator might have the most adjustability of any handheld, but the adjustments are still pretty limited. Like I said, a person can go crazy trying to dial in the LTFT's. They change every day with the weather, so what is the point really. Once you get a custom tune there would be no need to adjust anything more on the engine side of things. And since you offer no TCM support for gmt 900's. You practically have no more adjustability than anything else out there.

 

The only bogus info that has been thrown out is the promise of TCM support for Predator users. :D

 

 

but older <07 trucks control shifting points and that stuff from the PCM right? cause i know a friend of mine has a predator in his 03 silverado and it changed the shifting points and did lots of things! it is a different truck runs like hell! with a "canned" predator... but that is for the older silverados! i know the new ones don't have TCM support... am i correct?

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I am not sure you can tweak a custom tune on the predator either. You might be able to but the tweaking is very limited. Engine wise you can basically change spark advance and fuel trims. But it will drive you nuts trying to get your LTFT correct. Every single time you check them they will be different. And once your ignition timing is set in the custom tune there shuold not be any need for adjustment. Most of the calibrations that make a custom ECM tune so great are not available to you on the predator.

 

I had a Predator on an 02 Avalanche. I felt it was a benefit to that vehicle, but that was because it had TCM support. I have never had a custom CMR tune on the predator. I am not sure if anyone offers custom TCM tunes on the older predators. I do not know if you can make adjustments on the TCM with a custom tune because the programming is not broken out into 2 stages like it is on the newer stuff. The newer stuff programs the ECM and the TCM seperately. On the 99 it just programs the PCM so if you are loading a custom CMR tune, I am not sure if you can make the same tweaks you can on the canned diablo tunes.

 

My advice is:

 

If you just want to play around with some settings on your own. Get the Predator.

 

If you want a definate performance boost with honest quality customer support. Go with BB.

 

yes, you can still make your own changes/adjustments to a custom tune, just like you can with any of the preset Diablo tunes.. and very limited??? I think not.. the diablo tools offer the most adjustability of any handhelds...

 

as for tcm tunes on older predators/vehicles - older vehicles do not have a separate TCM module.. there is a single PCM that controls BOTH the engine and transmission settings.. so YES, the tranny settings are fully adjustable, and are completely customizable via custom tuning - ask me how I know :lol:

 

and yes, on the older vehicles, you can still adjust the tranny parameters yourself even with a custom tune...

 

wtf.. where does this bad/wrong/bogus info come from???!!!

 

 

 

 

What bad info? My point was that on the older vehicles with a PCM I was unsure if you could make adjustments to the shifting and still utilize the custom tune. That is why I asked. I could see where you could use a DiabLEW tune and still make shifting changes if it downloaded in 2 phases. I was not sure if you had the same menu options on the predator with a custom tune.

 

On older vehicles the tuning is one step, the PCM download because that controls the entire powertrain. That is why it is called a powertrain control module. On the gmt 900's there is an ECM (engine contol module) and a TCM (transmission control module). The newer stuff is tuned in 2 stages. Each module is donwloaded seperately. Atleast from all the handhelds except Diablo. Where is the bad information?

 

The predator might have the most adjustability of any handheld, but the adjustments are still pretty limited. Like I said, a person can go crazy trying to dial in the LTFT's. They change every day with the weather, so what is the point really. Once you get a custom tune there would be no need to adjust anything more on the engine side of things. And since you offer no TCM support for gmt 900's. You practically have no more adjustability than anything else out there.

 

The only bogus info that has been thrown out is the promise of TCM support for Predator users. :D

 

 

but older <07 trucks control shifting points and that stuff from the PCM right? cause i know a friend of mine has a predator in his 03 silverado and it changed the shifting points and did lots of things! it is a different truck runs like hell! with a "canned" predator... but that is for the older silverados! i know the new ones don't have TCM support... am i correct?

 

 

yes, exactly....

 

can change all of the tranny settings with the predator itself, on <07 vehicles... can do it with the preset diablo tunes, can do it if you have a custom tune installed, etc. etc...

 

getting a custom tune does not stop the tool/parameter adjustments from being available.... you still have all of the same parameters available to adjust with a custom tune just like you do for any of the preset diablo tunes...

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  • 2 months later...

it really depends on YOUR preference, i have the diablo it does what I want it to do, i put in the 87 octane tune turned off my AFM, changed my tire size, and changed my speed limiter thats what i wanted it to do..... you can also have a custom tune done as well just like black bear, however with the diablo(or other handheld) when you want to have service done on your vehicle at the dealer you can put it back to stock if you want too, especially if your truck still has powertrain warranty because IF they find it your warranty is void. but again it is your preference. some say the dealer wont find it just by doing oil changes etc. however a friend of mine who has a dodge was in for an oil change and there was an update for his truck they installed which made him lose his tune and make his programmer useless (it was a power puck) the dealer actually came good for the programmer but in turn voided his warranty!! just somthing to think about!! hope this helps

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  • 2 weeks later...

I am trying to figure all of this out as well. I have a Predator with Canned Tune (adjusted LTFT's) on my truck now. I have thought about getting a custom tune for it because of the great things I hear about the custom tunes. But it is going to cost another $125 on a tool that already cost me $300. But come to find out, BB has an in person tune session going on in my area at the end of the month. So Im trying to decide if I should pork up the $549 on a BB Autocal or put another $125 into the Diablo for a custom tune. Honestly, I should have got a custom tune several months back, but debated. I have been happy with the Diablo so far. But with everyone saying how much better it is to go custom, I think it might be worth it.

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I am trying to figure all of this out as well. I have a Predator with Canned Tune (adjusted LTFT's) on my truck now. I have thought about getting a custom tune for it because of the great things I hear about the custom tunes. But it is going to cost another $125 on a tool that already cost me $300. But come to find out, BB has an in person tune session going on in my area at the end of the month. So Im trying to decide if I should pork up the $549 on a BB Autocal or put another $125 into the Diablo for a custom tune. Honestly, I should have got a custom tune several months back, but debated. I have been happy with the Diablo so far. But with everyone saying how much better it is to go custom, I think it might be worth it.

 

 

Do you want TCM tuned as well? I am assuming you are talking about your 2008 truck here.

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