Diablo, Black Bear Or Custom Tune? Vortecmax 6.0l

Phillynate · April 13, 2010

I own a 2007 Crew Cab Vortec Max Silverado.

Saw that a fiew people suggested I get the 6.0L tuned because of lag, factory chokedown, etc.

Between the Diablo and Black Bear, what do you recommend and what experiences have you had with both? Results?

Also, my past vehicle was a C5 Z06 Vette with the LS6 motor in it. Had a very knowlegable buddy tune that car and got amazing results. Would he be a safe bet to tune my Truck now? Again, he is very good at tunes...and gives me a steal of a deal...that will cost alot less than buying a predator or black bear.

Thanks!

Nate

66nova · April 13, 2010

Black Bear all the way!

Click on the link in my sig that says "Kool-Aid Video". That is enough said.

SeirraRR · April 14, 2010

Black Bear all the way!

Click on the link in my sig that says "Kool-Aid Video". That is enough said.

+1

MS3DALE · April 18, 2010

Black Bear all the way!

Click on the link in my sig that says "Kool-Aid Video". That is enough said.

+1

+2

Mike74 · April 18, 2010

I have the Diablo with a LEW custom tune. Its really based on what you want. I have heard good and bad things about the black bear tune along with the predator. If I was basing a decision soley on that koolaid video, I would not be impressed. A 15 mph increase in 4 seconds is not a big deal. As for which one, the only thing I can give you is what each requires:

Black Bear Tune:

Tune = $250?

Cost to ship TCM and ECM to Jason $30ish (unless you get a group tune locally. He is never in my area)

Expense of buying a second set of computers $250 (TCM and ECM for going to the dealer)

PITA time to swap computers (some say they can swap them in the time it takes a diablo tune to install)

If you change anything on your truck from the original info that is used for the tune, then you ship it to jason again, and pay extra for the new tune. Then you are without a tune while it is being done. (pretty sure he doesnt retune for free, but I would verify that)

No resell value other than the puters because no two trucks have the same tune.

$500 + for it. Now this is just a guesstimation and may not be accurate.

Diablo:

Handheld $279 (unless you go used, I got mine for $150 with the pc interface kit)

PC interface kit $40

Custom LEW tune $100

Lew will also retune for free for the life of ownership if you make changes, with the exception of a few things.

No waiting for the new tune either, its all downloadable of the pc.

Diablo has no transmission controls though and I think Black Bear does.

Diablo can be resold once you unlock it from your vehicle.

Its really in what you want and what you are willing to spend. For me, it wasnt worth the extra expense. Once my truck is out of warranty, I may go with a bear tune. Also, this is not ment to piss anyone off, nor am I saying one is better than the other, just saying what my experience has been. I think both are quality.

MS3DALE · April 18, 2010

I have the Diablo with a LEW custom tune. Its really based on what you want. I have heard good and bad things about the black bear tune along with the predator. If I was basing a decision soley on that koolaid video, I would not be impressed. A 15 mph increase in 4 seconds is not a big deal. As for which one, the only thing I can give you is what each requires:

Black Bear Tune:

Tune = $250?

Cost to ship TCM and ECM to Jason $30ish (unless you get a group tune locally. He is never in my area)

Expense of buying a second set of computers $250 (TCM and ECM for going to the dealer)

PITA time to swap computers (some say they can swap them in the time it takes a diablo tune to install. They are liars!)

If you change anything on your truck from the original info that is used for the tune, then you ship it to jason again, and pay extra for the new tune. Then you are without a tune while it is being done. (pretty sure he doesnt retune for free)

No resell value other than the puters because no two trucks have the same tune.

$500 + for it. Now this is just a guesstimation and may not be accurate.

First off....Its Justin,not Jason

Second.....You don't have to buy new modules.

Third....You CAN swap the modules in the time it takes for the Diablo to install,They simply snap out,and back into place,Can't get much easier than that! (I can have mine out in a couple minutes)

And forth....He DOES retune for free for life,We just had our third tune meet up here in Pittsburgh and he "tweaked" a couple guys trucks that were previously tuned.

Fifth....Black Bear does have TCM support

Also...That video,although well done,does NOT do the Black Bear tune justice,Its amazing what Justin does with these trucks!!!

Mike74 · April 19, 2010

I have the Diablo with a LEW custom tune. Its really based on what you want. I have heard good and bad things about the black bear tune along with the predator. If I was basing a decision soley on that koolaid video, I would not be impressed. A 15 mph increase in 4 seconds is not a big deal. As for which one, the only thing I can give you is what each requires:

Black Bear Tune:

Tune = $250?

Cost to ship TCM and ECM to Jason $30ish (unless you get a group tune locally. He is never in my area)

Expense of buying a second set of computers $250 (TCM and ECM for going to the dealer)

PITA time to swap computers (some say they can swap them in the time it takes a diablo tune to install. They are liars!)

If you change anything on your truck from the original info that is used for the tune, then you ship it to jason again, and pay extra for the new tune. Then you are without a tune while it is being done. (pretty sure he doesnt retune for free)

No resell value other than the puters because no two trucks have the same tune.

$500 + for it. Now this is just a guesstimation and may not be accurate.

First off....Its Justin,not Jason

Second.....You don't have to buy new modules.

Third....You CAN swap the modules in the time it takes for the Diablo to install,They simply snap out,and back into place,Can't get much easier than that! (I can have mine out in a couple minutes)

And forth....He DOES retune for free for life,We just had our third tune meet up here in Pittsburgh and he "tweaked" a couple guys trucks that were previously tuned.

Fifth....Black Bear does have TCM support

Also...That video,although well done,does NOT do the Black Bear tune justice,Its amazing what Justin does with these trucks!!!

See this is what I was talking about, dont get your panties in a bunch. I appologize I got his name wrong, it was an honest mistake. As for having to get more computers, you are correct, you do not have to if you do not want to go to the dealership for warranty work. If you think you will, then YES YOU DO. Tweaking and rewritting a tune are completely different, if he does rewrite tunes after you change parts on your truck, then I stand corrected and if I were the OP, I would call and verify that info. I also went out and looked at my ecm, and it does snap in, but I did not look at the tcm. I appologize for saying they are liars, I ASSUMED they screwed in like everything else I have ever worked on. I cant believe I never saw that before. Also, I specifically said that diablo has no tcm and that black bear DOES, so not sure why you added that statement other than to reiterate what I said.

MS3DALE · April 19, 2010

I have the Diablo with a LEW custom tune. Its really based on what you want. I have heard good and bad things about the black bear tune along with the predator. If I was basing a decision soley on that koolaid video, I would not be impressed. A 15 mph increase in 4 seconds is not a big deal. As for which one, the only thing I can give you is what each requires:

Black Bear Tune:

Tune = $250?

Cost to ship TCM and ECM to Jason $30ish (unless you get a group tune locally. He is never in my area)

Expense of buying a second set of computers $250 (TCM and ECM for going to the dealer)

PITA time to swap computers (some say they can swap them in the time it takes a diablo tune to install. They are liars!)

If you change anything on your truck from the original info that is used for the tune, then you ship it to jason again, and pay extra for the new tune. Then you are without a tune while it is being done. (pretty sure he doesnt retune for free)

No resell value other than the puters because no two trucks have the same tune.

$500 + for it. Now this is just a guesstimation and may not be accurate.

First off....Its Justin,not Jason

Second.....You don't have to buy new modules.

Third....You CAN swap the modules in the time it takes for the Diablo to install,They simply snap out,and back into place,Can't get much easier than that! (I can have mine out in a couple minutes)

And forth....He DOES retune for free for life,We just had our third tune meet up here in Pittsburgh and he "tweaked" a couple guys trucks that were previously tuned.

Fifth....Black Bear does have TCM support

Also...That video,although well done,does NOT do the Black Bear tune justice,Its amazing what Justin does with these trucks!!!

See this is what I was talking about, dont get your panties in a bunch. I apologize I got his name wrong, it was an honest mistake. As for having to get more computers, you are correct, you do not have to if you do not want to go to the dealership for warranty work. If you think you will, then YES YOU DO. Tweaking and rewriting a tune are completely different, if he does rewrite tunes after you change parts on your truck, then I stand corrected and if I were the OP, I would call and verify that info. I also went out and looked at my ecm, and it does snap in, but I did not look at the tcm. I apologize for saying they are liars, I ASSUMED they screwed in like everything else I have ever worked on. I cant believe I never saw that before. Also, I specifically said that diablo has no tcm and that black bear DOES, so not sure why you added that statement other than to reiterate what I said.

Oh my panties aren't in a bunch.

He does rewrite tunes for free.

On the Diablo TCM part,I know you said they didn't have support,but in your post you said..."I think Black Bear does",Like you wasn't sure,So I was just verifying that they do support TCM changes.

00_Extended · April 19, 2010

And the war is on. I think good points were brought up about both. All subjects I think about while still trying to decide myself. I am thinking of buying a Diablo from Summit and trying it out and returning it if I don't like it. The extra $100 and PC interface for the tune brings you to about a $450.00 difference after shipping, so depending on ECM cost and shipping you have a difference of about $50-$100 between the two.

I like the Diablo and the fact that I have it in my hand and own it. It’s a tangible thing I guess plus I can remove the tune and put it back for dealer service. If Diablo had TCM support I would have bought one already.

I like the Black Bear because it's custom to your driving style and truck and you can't argue with the many satisfied customers. I like that it has TCM control. I like that both will make changes for life. If I can by a Diablo from Summit and return it if I don't like it I might go this way first, if not I am thinking Black Bear first and no ECM or TCM modules. If I like the tune I can buy them and send them for tune installs for free. If I can get the Diablo and use it and return it because I am not impressed then BB might be the total answer.

The one other thing I like about the Diablo is the that it’s scan tool of sorts and you can read and clear codes with it. More info on this part would be of good use since this could make the Diablo a very good investment as tool and tuning device.

Joe

MS3DALE · April 19, 2010

I must agree...If you want to go with a handheld,Diablo sounds like the best choice. I can tell you Hypertech is NOT!!

Stevens03 · April 19, 2010

I can tell you without a doubt that if your thinking diablo or BB for you 6.0... Go BB. I just got my truck tuned Saturday and owned diablo with a custom tune from one of the tuners on the site and I can tell you hands down, the BB tune yeilds more power, smoother, stronger and the TCM changes are beyond awesome for the transmission. With the reduction of Torque management, the truck just jumps off the line. Sooooo Glad I made the swap. Its like having a new truck all over again and it's so fun to drive again.

I still believe diablo makes one of the best handhelds out and offers a flexible option, but what Blackbear does with his tunes and how he sets up the transmission is just nothing short of awesome. My truck drives like a completely different truck. Its just as smooth, but hits hard when you nail it. No comparison between the two.

Edit:

And one more thing,... the hesitation that the truck has stock (HORRIBLE) or tuned with diablo (better) is completely gone with the custom tune from BB. Diablo helps, but nowhere near gets rid of it. Something else to consider.

66nova · April 19, 2010

I have the Diablo with a LEW custom tune. Its really based on what you want. I have heard good and bad things about the black bear tune along with the predator. If I was basing a decision soley on that koolaid video, I would not be impressed. A 15 mph increase in 4 seconds is not a big deal. As for which one, the only thing I can give you is what each requires:

Black Bear Tune:

Tune = $250?

Cost to ship TCM and ECM to Jason $30ish (unless you get a group tune locally. He is never in my area)

Expense of buying a second set of computers $250 (TCM and ECM for going to the dealer)

PITA time to swap computers (some say they can swap them in the time it takes a diablo tune to install)

If you change anything on your truck from the original info that is used for the tune, then you ship it to jason again, and pay extra for the new tune. Then you are without a tune while it is being done. (pretty sure he doesnt retune for free, but I would verify that)

No resell value other than the puters because no two trucks have the same tune.

$500 + for it. Now this is just a guesstimation and may not be accurate.

Diablo:

Handheld $279 (unless you go used, I got mine for $150 with the pc interface kit)

PC interface kit $40

Custom LEW tune $100

Lew will also retune for free for the life of ownership if you make changes, with the exception of a few things.

No waiting for the new tune either, its all downloadable of the pc.

Diablo has no transmission controls though and I think Black Bear does.

Diablo can be resold once you unlock it from your vehicle.

Its really in what you want and what you are willing to spend. For me, it wasnt worth the extra expense. Once my truck is out of warranty, I may go with a bear tune. Also, this is not meant to piss anyone off, nor am I saying one is better than the other, just saying what my experience has been. I think both are quality.

To start, I am not pissed at you or anyone else that chooses a handheld and defends their choice of product. I think that is absolutely great that you are happy with your handheld. I often defend diablo as being the best handheld option available. At least until Autocal is available. I just feel as if I should clear up a few apparently common misconceptions.

First, off the point of the Koolaid video is not to show how rapid my truck can accelerate with a Black Bear tune. It was purely to show the torque that was unleashed from a dog stock tune. It was to show an otherwise stock CrewCab truck with 20inch wheels and 3.73 gears, start spinning the tires at 18mph and shifting into 2nd with traction control on. It would be incorrect to draw any conclusions from the mph increase from that video for two reasons. One, the traction control was on. As soon as the tires start to spin the computer decreases power. Two, with a vehicle with VSS its hard to accurately judge where you mph is actually when the tires are spinning.

As far as the price for Justin's tunes, they range from $200 to $300 depending on which tune you get (Mail order $200, scan cable $300 or live$250).

A spare set of computers ECM $160 and TCM $60.

Retunes are free for life. No matter the reason. You can change motors, add a blower, a cam, headers, change you mind about what you want, etc.

Yes if you want to go back to stock you have to switch out computers, but the ECM/TCM is within arms reach, right next to each other on the drivers inner fender. They are merely clipped in and can be swapped in minutes.

If you go to resale your computers you should be able to get close to $220 out of the pair.

If you truly want someone to talk to about this, send a PM to Stevens07. He replied above. He has a Vmax truck and just replaced his custom diablo tune with a Black Bear tune.

For the OP, I don't think you can go wrong with either tune, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what my recommendations are.