Dealer Issues / Rusted Brake Lines

T1ME_Killa · October 28, 2011

BTW....... Re to, "i called the NHTSA and put in a report about the instant loss in braking ability".......

Are you saying that the brake line actually corroded through and you lost your brakes while driving???? Seems kinda weird that you left that bit out in your 1st post...... anyway, that changes everything (if that's the case).... pics would be really helpful here.

There is a huge difference between, "Oh, help me, my brake lines are rusty" and "Hey.... I could have been killed here!!!!"

ya sorry Ive been running around attempting to collect all the paperwork i have on the issue but yes it was an instant loss in breaking ability, the lines were rusted/corroded enough to crack and one did.

T1ME_Killa · October 28, 2011

OK this is the complaint i sent to the BBB

Complaint Details

I purchased my 04 silverado from this dealership on 6/2/11. Under 5 months later (10/20/11) one of the four hard brake lines ruptured underneath the pickup truck. Due to this ruptured line I could not stop the truck with the regular brake system and needed to activate the emergency brake. I was extremely close to the dealership when this occurred and was able to get the truck to the dealership using this method showy. The dealership wanted me to pay between 2800 and 3000 dollars to repair all four brake lines and they wanted to possibly replace my fuel lines because they were quote unquote crispy extremely crispy due to the amount of rust formed on the lines. It is impossible that in the 5 months that the I have owned this truck the brake lines could've gone from safe to sell to a customer to so unsafe and rust covered that they crack. Someone did not inspect this vehicle properly before it was sold to me. I had several oil changes done at this dealership and on my last oil change on 10/07/11 they failed to check off anything under the brake system box. Note in quotes it specifically states lines hoses and parking break. nobody mentioned on the goodwrench multi point vehicle inspection the brake system needed attention, the only thing mentioned on the sheet is a transmission flush. The sheet also has a box for the fuel system but according to the sheet there was nothing wrong with the fuel system the good box is checked off. I had my vehicle towed to another repair center for a second opinion and it only cost me 1000 dollars to repair the brake lines. The other repair center agreed that the fuel lines were definitely rusty but did not need to be replaced right away. I feel like I was lied to and the dealership took advantage of the trust I had in them. They did not want to repair this issue and hoped that it would occur well after my warranty way later down the road.

Desired Outcome/Settlement

Desired Settlement: Refund-Check

I want to be reimbursed for the 930 dollars it took to repair my brake system 227 dollars for the rental car I need to use to get to work and whatever the cost is going to be for the fuel system at a different repair center because of the dealership believes it should be repaired now it should have been done before I purchased vehicle.

Edit: i read this thing like 50 times before i submitted it and am just know seeing my grammar and spelling issues.

MikeInCtown · October 28, 2011

Ok, I don't see anything in your complaint about it being a certified used vehicle. That should have been one of the top things you mentioned. I would have also researched exactly what the "certified used" means as normally it does include a 12/12,000 warranty.

Second, you piled stuff in there that not only didn't make sense, but was completely unnecessary. Also, that should have been broken up into 3 paragraphs or more with details only, in easy to read format.

I hope you get a resolution, but you really need to read the paperwork from your "certified" vehicle. the BBB is useless and you will probably wind up taking the dealership to small claims court. Since they didn't do the job they were supposed to do regarding the inspections, and because rust usually happens mostly in the winter months, the lines should have been noticed when the inspection was originally done.

BTW, it seems odd that a single ruptured line would make for no brakes at all. This is why you have two lines coming off the master cylinder and why the front and rear are seperate.

T1ME_Killa · October 28, 2011

Ok, I don't see anything in your complaint about it being a certified used vehicle. That should have been one of the top things you mentioned. I would have also researched exactly what the "certified used" means as normally it does include a 12/12,000 warranty.

Second, you piled stuff in there that not only didn't make sense, but was completely unnecessary. Also, that should have been broken up into 3 paragraphs or more with details only, in easy to read format.

I hope you get a resolution, but you really need to read the paperwork from your "certified" vehicle. the BBB is useless and you will probably wind up taking the dealership to small claims court. Since they didn't do the job they were supposed to do regarding the inspections, and because rust usually happens mostly in the winter months, the lines should have been noticed when the inspection was originally done.

BTW, it seems odd that a single ruptured line would make for no brakes at all. This is why you have two lines coming off the master cylinder and why the front and rear are seperate.

i tried to separate stuff but the BBB just puts it into a paragraph whatever you submit. i just C/P the complaint

one line cracked and all of my fluid came out i do believe the job of the master is to attempt to re distribute fluid and pressure to keep the lines working correct? but yes i could not stop. no brakes besides the e brake. i was hearing hissing every time i pressed the breaks.

it was dealer certified not gm certified i was mistaken on that point witch is why i did not send that to the BBB

what was not needed?

ChevyTech77 · October 28, 2011

One line should have only emptied one master cylinder reservoir, yes.

You should have had reduced brake abilities, but still some braking, yes. It's a proven fact on how the system operates but no matter what, 2 working brakes will never work as well as 4. It's science.

Dealer certified? Good luck. They should be taking care of you, not the BBB. You need to take the dealer to court. A BBB complaint only seems like it would do anything, to me anyway, AFTER you lost to the dealer through arbitration.

wavery · October 28, 2011

Again...... don't waste any time. Sue the "Dealership" (sounds like non GM dealership). If the vehicle was sold with some sort of warranty or statement that guarantees the condition of the vehicle, you may stand a chance at winning.

Look over your purchase agreement very carefully. If the vehicle was sold, "As-is" you may have a difficult time proving your case.

I hope that you kept the old brake lines. If you didn't, I doubt that you have any case at all. The fact that one brake line may have failed due to rust (or some other cause) does not necessarily dictate that all brake lines must be replaced. If you bring in a bunch of rusty brake lines from your vehicle that show obvious signs of decay, you will have a more compelling case.

As far as the BBB is concerned.......... the BBB works for the best interest of the City Counsel. Automobile complaints are ignored by most BBB. People make frivolous complaints to the BBB about automotive establishments at an alarming rate (I'm not saying yours is). Maintaining an automobile can be expensive at times. All too often people get upset about the cost of repairs and try to take it out on the very establishment that is trying to help them. The BBB is not set up and does not have resources to handle these complaints.

T1ME_Killa · October 28, 2011

Again...... don't waste any time. Sue the "Dealership" (sounds like non GM dealership). If the vehicle was sold with some sort of warranty or statement that guarantees the condition of the vehicle, you may stand a chance at winning.

Look over your purchase agreement very carefully. If the vehicle was sold, "As-is" you may have a difficult time proving your case.

I hope that you kept the old brake lines. If you didn't, I doubt that you have any case at all. The fact that one brake line may have failed due to rust (or some other cause) does not necessarily dictate that all brake lines must be replaced. If you bring in a bunch of rusty brake lines from your vehicle that show obvious signs of decay, you will have a more compelling case.

it is a gm dealership, i am going to see if the repair shop still has my old lines.

wavery · October 28, 2011

it is a gm dealership, i am going to see if the repair shop still has my old lines.

When you state, "it is a gm dealership"...... are you saying that you purchased the vehicle from a GM dealership or that it was a GM dealership that performed the repair?

You had this repair done how long ago? I'm sure that the tech is required to clean his stall on a daily basis. If the repair was done yesterday, you may find the lines in their dumpster.

In most states, there is is place on the repair order that asks if you want the old parts back. In CA, the customer is required to initial that request if they do not want the parts back. Look at the repair order.

T1ME_Killa · October 28, 2011

it is a gm dealership, i am going to see if the repair shop still has my old lines.

When you state, "it is a gm dealership"...... are you saying that you purchased the vehicle from a GM dealership or that it was a GM dealership that performed the repair?

You had this repair done how long ago? I'm sure that the tech is required to clean his stall on a daily basis. If the repair was done yesterday, you may find the lines in their dumpster.

In most states, there is is place on the repair order that asks if you want the old parts back. In CA, the customer is required to initial that request if they do not want the parts back. Look at the repair order.

Im sorry i thought you ment the place i bought the truck, I purchased the truck from a Chevrolet dealership and i had the repair done last weekend at a local shop in Worcester ma.

redjewel2ss · October 28, 2011

no offense, but i think your wasting your time taking it to court. this is why:

1. truck was most likely sold to you "AS-IS" meaning once you take it off the lot, its your problem, not theirs. the only way i would change my opinion is if the truck had an extended warranty.

2. its been 5 months since you bought it. if the dealership was nice and wants your business again in the future, they might have fixed it for free if your brakes failed within a month of you buying it.

3. just because an inspection sheet from an oil change shows no problems, doesn't make it their responsibility to replace something on their dime that breaks a couple weeks later.

so i don't think your going to get your money back! this is why a lot people take a used vehicle they're interested in buying to an independent mechanic to have them thoroughly inspect it BEFORE signing the paper work. because, like i said, if it was sold "as-is" its now your problem, not theirs.

just because the dealer called it certified used does not mean it wasn't sold as-is. since they called it "certified used" it must have come with some kind of warranty, right? if not, you fell for one of their scummy sales gimmicks. if it did, how long is the warranty and what does it cover? look over your paperwork, and good luck!

wavery · October 28, 2011

no offense, but i think your wasting your time taking it to court. this is why:

1. truck was most likely sold to you "AS-IS" meaning once you take it off the lot, its your problem, not theirs. the only way i would change my opinion is if the truck had an extended warranty.

2. its been 5 months since you bought it. if the dealership was nice and wants your business again in the future, they might have fixed it for free if your brakes failed within a month of you buying it.

3. just because an inspection sheet from an oil change shows no problems, doesn't make it their responsibility to replace something on their dime that breaks a couple weeks later.

so i don't think your going to get your money back! this is why a lot people take a used vehicle they're interested in buying to an independent mechanic to have them thoroughly inspect it BEFORE signing the paper work. because, like i said, if it was sold "as-is" its now your problem, not theirs.

just because the dealer called it certified used does not mean it wasn't sold as-is. since they called it "certified used" it must have come with some kind of warranty, right? if not, you fell for one of their scummy sales gimmicks. if it did, how long is the warranty and what does it cover? look over your paperwork, and good luck!

Although I agree with this logic and 2010TexasEdition is right in his statements, courts take a dimm view on dealerships that sell a used vehicle that has a failure like this soon after the sale.

IMO, you should lose a case like this...... even if you do have evidence....... However, I have seen judges come down hard on dealers (myself included) that did not perform due diligence and sold an "Unsafe" vehicle to a customer.

Anyone has the right to sue in Small Claims Court. If you really feel that you were somehow taken advantage of, you can file a claim, pay the court fees and have your day in court. Chances are, the dealership representative may not even show up. In that case, you will have a judgement against them........ Then you have to go about collecting (which shouldn't be hard).

If the Service Manager or Used Car Manager shows up with the attitude of , "This car was sold as-is", the judge will tear him apart. I've seen it a dozen times (doesn't mean he will lose though). If they take the position that the damage was not apparent at the time of inspection and he produces an inspection report and/or the tech that inspected the vehicle, you may have a problem...... especially if you don't have those brake lines. If you have the brake lines and they are as bad as you say, you could get a judges attention. It's one thing to over-look a rusted spot on a brake line. It's something else if the brake was dangerously corroded at the time of inspection but the U/C Manager declined to spend the $ on the replacement of the lines.

Bottom line is, if you really feel that you have been knowingly harmed, you have the right to pursue compensation if you feel it is worth the time, court costs and stress that goes with all that..

T1ME_Killa · October 28, 2011

no offense, but i think your wasting your time taking it to court. this is why:

1. truck was most likely sold to you "AS-IS" meaning once you take it off the lot, its your problem, not theirs. the only way i would change my opinion is if the truck had an extended warranty.

2. its been 5 months since you bought it. if the dealership was nice and wants your business again in the future, they might have fixed it for free if your brakes failed within a month of you buying it.

3. just because an inspection sheet from an oil change shows no problems, doesn't make it their responsibility to replace something on their dime that breaks a couple weeks later.

so i don't think your going to get your money back! this is why a lot people take a used vehicle they're interested in buying to an independent mechanic to have them thoroughly inspect it BEFORE signing the paper work. because, like i said, if it was sold "as-is" its now your problem, not theirs.

just because the dealer called it certified used does not mean it wasn't sold as-is. since they called it "certified used" it must have come with some kind of warranty, right? if not, you fell for one of their scummy sales gimmicks. if it did, how long is the warranty and what does it cover? look over your paperwork, and good luck!

Although I agree with this logic and 2010TexasEdition is right in his statements, courts take a dimm view on dealerships that sell a used vehicle that has a failure like this soon after the sale.

IMO, you should lose a case like this...... even if you do have evidence....... However, I have seen judges come down hard on dealers (myself included) that did not perform due diligence and sold an "Unsafe" vehicle to a customer.

Anyone has the right to sue in Small Claims Court. If you really feel that you were somehow taken advantage of, you can file a claim, pay the court fees and have your day in court. Chances are, the dealership representative may not even show up. In that case, you will have a judgement against them........ Then you have to go about collecting (which shouldn't be hard).

If the Service Manager or Used Car Manager shows up with the attitude of , "This car was sold as-is", the judge will tear him apart. I've seen it a dozen times (doesn't mean he will lose though). If they take the position that the damage was not apparent at the time of inspection and he produces an inspection report and/or the tech that inspected the vehicle, you may have a problem...... especially if you don't have those brake lines. If you have the brake lines and they are as bad as you say, you could get a judges attention. It's one thing to over-look a rusted spot on a brake line. It's something else if the brake was dangerously corroded at the time of inspection but the U/C Manager declined to spend the $ on the replacement of the lines.

Bottom line is, if you really feel that you have been knowingly harmed, you have the right to pursue compensation if you feel it is worth the time, court costs and stress that goes with all that..

I'm checking in with auto laws in mass and is looks like you cant sell a car "As is" in this state but i need to look further into it.

ChevyTech77 · October 28, 2011

O.K., enough drival on this, let me just put this out there.....

Would you have paid for the repairs before the lines rusted out and started leaking? What if this happened a year or two down the road? While I can understand how you might be pissed that you just bought a used truck from a dealership that just cost you nearly $1400 in repairs and rental fees (not to mention probably a pair of underoo's), 5 months after buying it, you DID buy a nearly 10 year old truck, in a salt state. There are a lot of things rusty under there, I'm sure. I've driven cars in the great state of Michigan my entire life that have never lost a brake line due to rot but they sure didn't look pretty either. I guess part of it is the risk we take everyday getting behind the wheel.

grogman45459 · October 28, 2011

O.K., enough drival on this, let me just put this out there.....

Would you have paid for the repairs before the lines rusted out and started leaking? What if this happened a year or two down the road? While I can understand how you might be pissed that you just bought a used truck from a dealership that just cost you nearly $1400 in repairs and rental fees (not to mention probably a pair of underoo's), 5 months after buying it, you DID buy a nearly 10 year old truck, in a salt state. There are a lot of things rusty under there, I'm sure. I've driven cars in the great state of Michigan my entire life that have never lost a brake line due to rot but they sure didn't look pretty either. I guess part of it is the risk we take everyday getting behind the wheel.

Amen brotha. Yeah it sucks, what you gonna do? I just went through this last week with my dad's '02 Silverado HD. I walked out on my driveway after dinner and looked down to see his truck literally pissing itself all over my driveway. lol. he was furious - he keeps it clean beyond belief, couldn't believe it. The way that the lines run along, and on the frame rail it's gonna happen.

Got it to our mechanic and for around $600, fresh lines bent and replaced everywhere and we're good to go. Mechanic mentioned that they have coated lines out now but he didn't know enough about them, so we opted not to go that route.

T1ME_Killa · October 28, 2011

O.K., enough drival on this, let me just put this out there.....

Would you have paid for the repairs before the lines rusted out and started leaking? What if this happened a year or two down the road? While I can understand how you might be pissed that you just bought a used truck from a dealership that just cost you nearly $1400 in repairs and rental fees (not to mention probably a pair of underoo's), 5 months after buying it, you DID buy a nearly 10 year old truck, in a salt state. There are a lot of things rusty under there, I'm sure. I've driven cars in the great state of Michigan my entire life that have never lost a brake line due to rot but they sure didn't look pretty either. I guess part of it is the risk we take everyday getting behind the wheel.

honestly if it happened a year 1 or 2 years down the road i would not care as much woildent even make a stink about it needing to be replaced. would probrably bitch at the cost but any unexpected cost is a pain in the ass. its more the point that they are now finding these problems when the lemon law is now out of effect for me, the gas system was fine to sell to me but now i need to change out the lines, all the break lines are safe enough to sell to a customer and then one breaks because of rust. im aware that im probrably going to need to suck it up in the end and deal i just dont understand how people can do this kind of stuff and get away with it. in the end i will probrably just need to wat and see if the highway saftys investigation helps out (and yes there is a current investigation about the prone to rust brake lines)