steering pump noise after multi bleeds & vacuum process...

Babyhauler · December 19, 2011

Hey guys,

I did a flush & fill about a month ago w/ regular GM ps fluid. I ran that a week & did a flush & fill to Amsoil synthetic. I did this because my 02 5.3 ecsb 2wd has 188,000 miles & I drive about 25k per year. It would get a little louder after interstate driving but no problems. My 95 Impala SS improved greatly after a flush & fill & a ps cooler. To flush, I removed the return line & started the eng & returned under the hood to keep it topped off like I did the SS, but the fluid was gone. It blew it out fast & was empty by the time I got to look. So I turned it off quickly. I do not know if this very short "dry" run would cause my noise I am getting now, but you need to know about it. It was a little louder the week with the regular fluid. I did the swap to Amsoil the same way without emptying the resevoir as before. I did the bleed by lifting the wheels & turning the wheels L & R 10-12 times. The groaning noise increased during the first week to it's max & current level. Somethng is wrong. I have kept the fluid level correct. Earlier this week I put screw clamps on the rubber lines as they were loose & probably letting air in. Today I followed the GM bleed process with my Mityvac. It would hold 20 hg for 5-6 minutes. With the vac on, eng off, i would turn the wheel L to R without hitting the stops. Lots off bubbles would flow up as I slowly turned back & forth. Release the vac. & put the cap on, it still was groaning away, getting louder when the wheel was turned. After 2 cycles, I started the engine & turned the wheel with it raised & the front wheels started oscilating rapidly & would continue unless I held the wheel for a few seconds. Anyway, after 3-4 vac bleeds, it still groans & appears to have a nice froth in the ps fluid. I do not know if it groans because air is getting in somewhere or the pump is bad or the Amsoil fluid is not on Cardone's approved GM fluid list. Per the GM sheet, other culprits could be to put clamps on the return lines, done. O-rings on the return & pressure lines, (where), gear cylinder line o-ring (?), resevoir to pump o-ring. I am not sure if anything is bad beyond the pump, since I did not really have a problem untill I did the flush & fill. Any ideas on my next step to fix this would be appreciated.

Babyhauler

jaredlucky16 · December 20, 2011

Probably from it running dry I know on the traverses if it goes dry youll vener get the whine out of it

ChevyTech77 · December 20, 2011

Might have hurt the pump but I kind of doubt it.

Take the boots off the steering gear and look for leaks from the steering gear end seals. Common issue that won't show a leak until the boot overflows with fluid. Those seals can pull air when leaking like that, as well, which would cause your issue. If nothing is found you can just put the boots back on the gear and use a zip tie to hold the boot on the gear in place of the factory metal clamp.

If the gear isn't leaking like that, I'd try a pump.

Babyhauler · December 20, 2011

Thanks guys,

The fluid still looks aerated. I have not experienced any leaks before or after. I put the clamps on two rubber hoses. Are there any others that need a clamp to replace the factory spring clamp? What and where are the o-rings they are referrng to on the GM bulletin? I will check the gear boots first. I really did not have a problem before, but maybe the F & F caused something to start the air leak. As stated before, it got louder daily for about a week to it's present level. That is what makes me think an air leak has appeared. Chevytech, should I chase any line leaks which might have happened or go ahead and change the pump, which is the most obvious part like you stated before? Of course, after checking the seals.

Any other ideas or experiences?

Thanks for the replies.

"Squalling" Babyhauler

ChevyTech77 · December 20, 2011

O.K. I might have mis-understood some here so before we jump off the "Let's replace something!" bus, let me ask one question that I need answered with 100% accuracy. Did the truck have any similar, or non-similar, steering related noises before you flushed the fluid?

Babyhauler · December 20, 2011

I would say no. It would only get a little louder in the summer after a 30 minute plus interstate run, 2000-2200 rpm. It would go back to normal after being in traffic for a few minutes. Compared to other Chevy's I am around regularly, mine was normal. 188,000 miles, drove and sounded fine.

Babyhauler

jblakeney · December 21, 2011

Andy,

If you had noise, before this flushing. Drain a quart out and add a quart of Lucas PS Fluid. I have had systems foam during bleeding and have trouble bleeding them. You would probably have to run a power steering pump for a few minutes dry before you got a noise that can not be cured.

I know about amsoil and its following. And yes Cardone says "NO", and they will return a pump that they verify having it in the system (the consumer doesn't see it, people like me do, on our billing at the end of the month).

Lucas is on the approved list. And it does work for system noise. Also, I have had good luck bleeding systems with it over the years. It is quite thicker than just power steering fluid........... A quart or pint usually cures noise that is not caused by a bad pump or rack and pinion with high tolerances from wear. Try it in a Ford system, it works to keep them quite. And yes I have put just pure Lucas in a system before with no issues.

Not that amsoil is a bad oil product. It is just like compressors if it doesn't have the right oil in the system and free-on no credit will be issued. SO DON'T flame me for ragging on amsoil. IT IS IN MY ATV'S....

FOAM = NOISE & FOAM = AIR is still trapped in the system & Hard spots in the steering loaded on the ground = AIR.

Jbo

Edit: I forgot, do the L-R with the front suspension lifted. Then I do the same bleed while backing up slowly then forward...... Several times. And I usually Only turn the wheel L-R 2 or 3 times then kill the vehicle and allow the air and fluid to separate (i.e. the foam to go away and the red fluid look return). After it is a nice froth it is more difficult to bleed.

Babyhauler · December 22, 2011

Thanks agan for the help.

No extra noise before, just F & F because of miles. I noticed something else that may give a hint. I have wiped off the filler neck many times recently and I believe fluid is seeping out of the cap. Also, when I take it off hot or warm, it sort of burps or pops the cap. Almost like a soft drink. Not from the spring pressure of the cap, like a cap off a warm radiator & you hold it down tight even past the cam locks on the cap and slowly release the pressure. With a liquid getting hot, it must expand, but this has been a clean engine and I do not recall the filler neck being moist like this. I know the cap is vented, but which way? Yes, the fluid level is on cold when cold & hot when hot. Will extra air pulling in make it purge more air out if I have an air leak? Also, no harder steering effort or jumps or bumps when on the ground like it should with air in it. I have not had a chance to check the seals.

Babyhauler

jblakeney · December 22, 2011

If you have air pockets, you will encounter more fluid film on the cap than normal. As more air purges than normal.

Try Lucas. . . . . . Systems I have problems bleeding get a quart of Lucas..... the added thickness of the fluid seems to help.

Jbo

Babyhauler · December 22, 2011

I bought a pint before I saw this post today. I think it only took a quart to refill the system. So is it a pint or quart? I'll try a gallon and put it on my smoker for 6 hours if it will help! My wife siad it sounded like a run over cat under my hood when I pulled in the carport last nite. USM? Golden Eagles?

Thanks again,

Babyhauler

jblakeney · December 23, 2011

I wouldn't be scared of a completely full system of Lucas. But a pint is roughly half the system, if I remember right how much I put in mine last year when I flushed it. Is the fluid still foamy after running?

Also, I thought about this, I don't know what brand fluid you bought it or what color amsoil PS fluid is. I use Sta-Lube PS fluid and it is dyed red. So as not to cause confusion.

When I rebuilt the front steering and suspension early this year on my 87, I bleed and bleed and bleed that system, over several weekends. Drove it every other week back and forth to work from it was either January or February till now. I went to Cruising The Coast on October 8th. I burped an air pocket in the system out..... Was in moving traffic swung right hard then LEFT to the lock and spun around and changed directions (ya ya I know it was a U turn) after I made the fancy U turn and started to straighten up I realized was BOWING up pretty aggressively in order to get the wheel back straight. I pulled over and check to make sure I didn't sling the belt or bust a hose. Reservoir was full, belt was on the truck and still tight, and left me scratching my head, cranked the truck watched the fluid for a minute debated pulling the belt off with my knife. Shrugged my shoulders and got back in the truck and man handled the truck for a little while and then I went to turn left and it was hard (no help) and all at once in the turn it was back loose (aid from the pump had returned). Geeeeeez, I am never going on the weekend again.

Hm,,,,,, run over cat??? hm, interesting, vivid description. I have heard that in the last month.

Yup, no doubt... Southern Miss, To The Top!..... Ya I am an USM student, maybe one day I will finish (a class or two a semester takes awhile, not to mention how crumbie the job market is). Yah, my TV will be on ESPN Saturday at 7 CST. My cousin will be on the field cheering for USM. Hopefully, we win and all will be good at my house.

Jbo

Babyhauler · December 23, 2011

The amsoil is red in the bottle, mine is a lite red with the froth in it. Lucas is a dark red. I may buy another pint. Get out all I can & fill it up w Lucas. I still want to check those boots on the rack for leaks. I wonder if you seal & pressurize the system like a radiator test if the air leak spot would show with fluid seeping out. Or would that just blow the seals out and put more air in the system. I'll tinker with it as I get time during the holidays.

"Crazy as a run over dog" was one of grandma's sayings. She lived near Scooba. "crazy as a sprayed roach" is a new one I've heard.

I have a friend from over here that played baseball at USM around 80-82. Long time ago. Keep plugging away at it. You will finish. Took me forever, but I did it.

later

Babyhauler

ChevyTech77 · December 23, 2011

Power steering systems are checked for leaks with a vacuum test instead of a pressure test.

Babyhauler · December 24, 2011

I gues I was thinking out loud on the pressure test. It would make it easier to find the leak that way. Maybe the engne air leak test where you spray some carb cleaner around untill the engine revs up. Oh well, it's a thought. Maybe I'll have some time tomorrow to work on it instead of typing about it.

Thanks again,

Babyhauler