Tow Ratings For HD's- Per Standard Now?

[Blue2500CC]

So on another forum a member was asking why a Tundra has a lower tow rating than a HD 6.0 truck, when the Tundra has a higher rated motor and steeper gearing.

 

Another member posted it is because Toyota is going by the new(er) tow rating standard while GM is still doing their own thing for the HD's. I can not find any info for the HD's that is proof that GM is indeed using the standards for the HD's like they are for the 1500's. Anyone have a link to a press release from GM or similar? Don't want to just reply that they are using the standard "because that's what I read somewhere on the net".

 

TY!!!

[newdude]

To my knowledge, GM did adopt the SAE J2807 tow rating procedure for 2015 on 1500 trucks: http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2014/Jun/0619-silverado1500.html

 

For 2016 model year, the HD's confirm to SAE J2807 as well: http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2015/aug/0819-sierrraHD.html

 

Here is where it gets funky...the 1500 trucks lost anywhere from 0-400lbs depending on cab and gears. 2500hd gas and diesel trucks, went from 13,000lbs for all cabs ball hitch, to anywhere from 13,000-14,500lbs depending on cab. Yep, they went up, 0-1500lbs.

[crankman]

Blue2500cc to me there comparing apples to oranges. The Tundra is a 1/2 ton truck compared to the 6.0 3/4 ton truck. Im not being negative just there looking at motors and gears but there more of a larger truck in the 6.0.

[Blue2500CC]

TY 15!!!

 

 

Blue2500cc to me there comparing apples to oranges. The Tundra is a 1/2 ton truck compared to the 6.0 3/4 ton truck. Im not being negative just there looking at motors and gears but there more of a larger truck in the 6.0.

I totally agree!!! I posted the 4spd vs 6spd trans chart that one if our members made and stated the trans has a lot of impact also, not just the motor and axle ratio. The person was asking about a proper rated tv for a 10k oh gvwr tt.

 

TY!!!

[Nathan79]

Yeah, Toyota Tundra owners like to think they own an HD - see it posted all the time - and is about the dumbest idea I've ever heard. They are not even close to an HD. There is more to towing than horsepower. The 6.0 HD'S are rated to tow up to 14k lbs and will do it day in day out without a care in the world except regular stops at the gas pump.

[Cowpie]

And payload is a factor on what one can actually tow, unless one is using a dead tongue on a grain wagon. 3/4 ton payload is substantially more.

[Willx]

To my knowledge, GM did adopt the SAE J2807 tow rating procedure for 2015 on 1500 trucks: http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2014/Jun/0619-silverado1500.html

 

For 2016 model year, the HD's confirm to SAE J2807 as well: http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2015/aug/0819-sierrraHD.html

 

Here is where it gets funky...the 1500 trucks lost anywhere from 0-400lbs depending on cab and gears. 2500hd gas and diesel trucks, went from 13,000lbs for all cabs ball hitch, to anywhere from 13,000-14,500lbs depending on cab. Yep, they went up, 0-1500lbs.

 

The issue is that the 2500s lost thousands of pounds in the 5th wheel towing capacity. roughly 2200lbs from many of them in the 4x4 except the reg cab diesel long box got an extra 100 or 200 pounds?

[StinkyCheese]

Yeah, Toyota Tundra owners like to think they own an HD - see it posted all the time - and is about the dumbest idea I've ever heard. They are not even close to an HD. There is more to towing than horsepower. The 6.0 HD'S are rated to tow up to 14k lbs and will do it day in day out without a care in the world except regular stops at the gas pump.

 

I wouldn't say it's just Tundra owners that do that. Many 1500 owners of any brand think they can tow HD numbers in half tons.

[Chevor]

What do you mean? The Tundra can pull the space shuttle on a oversized air brake trailer with no modifications.

[Wintersun]

The tow and the load ratings are based on the weakest link. It may be the engine and it may be the transmission (same truck will often have a higher rating with an automatic), it may be the bearings and it may be the differential and it is definitely going to include the frame. With 2011 GM and 2013 Ram 3/4 and 1-ton trucks the frames were made considerably stronger and stiffer to handle greater towing loads.

 

The GM diesel 3/4 ton trucks have more horsepower and more torque but also beefier Allison transmissions and oversized drive shafts and beefier front suspension components and larger anti-sway bar and larger differentials and larger brakes than the gas powered GM 3/4 ton trucks.

[Jon A]

 

The issue is that the 2500s lost thousands of pounds in the 5th wheel towing capacity. roughly 2200lbs from many of them in the 4x4 except the reg cab diesel long box got an extra 100 or 200 pounds?

 

That's likely because they were payload limited and the standard required 20% pin weight for the rating. The good news is they revised the standard earlier this year to use only 15% for the ratings, so I expect they will go up in the future.

[Willx]

 

That's likely because they were payload limited and the standard required 20% pin weight for the rating. The good news is they revised the standard earlier this year to use only 15% for the ratings, so I expect they will go up in the future.

 

The Tow weight rating and the payload are not calculated together. The Payload did not go down, or was it effecting the tow rating as you suggest for Pin Weight. They simply did not pass the performance testing at the weight that was originally suggested (2015) but in J2807 which gives actual standards for testing towing capacity including acceleration and maneuvering under load. My 5th or Gooseneck has a PIN Weight at the Scales and it has a Total Loaded weight. I can effect the PIN Weight in the loading of the trailer, I cannot change the loaded weight. So you might be able to get your payload to a safe range through proper safe loading procedures, but you can't change the weight of the trailer.

 

The ONLY way they are going to get the Towing capacity to go up is by changing physical components on the truck. The weights were over stated according to the new standards.

[Jon A]

 

They simply did not pass the performance testing at the weight that was originally suggested (2015) but in J2807 which gives actual standards for testing towing capacity including acceleration and maneuvering under load.

 

You have somebody from GM who has confirmed this? Or are you merely speculating?

 

 

The Tow weight rating and the payload are not calculated together. The Payload did not go down, or was it effecting the tow rating as you suggest for Pin Weight.

 

They are calculated together in the standard. You can pass all the acceleration/braking tests at a really high GCWR, but if your GVWR (or RGAWR) won't allow the pin weight the rating goes to the lowest result of the three:

 

 

The second equation on the top line--basically your payload minus 300 lbs for driver and passenger minus hitch weight divided by 0.15 minimum for pin weight. In prior revisions that was 0.20. That's enough to make 4-5,000 lbs difference in TWR for typical 3/4 tons so it's no longer likely to be the limiting factor.

[Willx]

 

You have somebody from GM who has confirmed this? Or are you merely speculating?

 

 

They are calculated together in the standard. You can pass all the acceleration/braking tests at a really high GCWR, but if your GVWR (or RGAWR) won't allow the pin weight the rating goes to the lowest result of the three:

 

The second equation on the top line--basically your payload minus 300 lbs for driver and passenger minus hitch weight divided by 0.15 minimum for pin weight. In prior revisions that was 0.20. That's enough to make 4-5,000 lbs difference in TWR for typical 3/4 tons so it's no longer likely to be the limiting factor.

Yes I understand exactly what you are saying but the conversation was directly with General Motors on a 3/4 ton Crew Cab truck. It was that if you towed a 15,500 pound 5th wheel that in 2016 that the warranty would be void as it is posted (with equipment) to tow 13,900. The prior year the same truck towed 16,400 pounds (yes plus or minus a few hundred pounds for options, everything we haul with goes to the scales for verification of actual weights and sometimes loading checks related to payload).

 

We tow lots of trailers with different trucks, the weights did not change with our Ram trucks during the last few years on 3/4 tons. We were told that we required a 1 ton now (by General Motors) to tow the same trailer that we towed with a 3/4 ton in 2015.

 

Don't get me wrong, it was a 1 ton single rear wheel Denali that got purchased to do the job, but they were pretty clear if we ordered a 2017 that none of this would change. It was not GMs "way of calculating" anything to do with the trailer weights it is that all GM, Ford and Ram comply now with J2807 (Society of Automotive Engineers) standardized testing. I was not told exactly what aspect needed to be changed as acceleration emergency manoeuvres heat generation/dissipation etc are all tested, and they simply ratchet down the weight until the vehicle passes.

 

It could be something as simple as needing to upgrade brake callipers and rotor (which I doubt the 2500 Duramax has great brakes) or it might need a new drive train? They were explicit that something mechanically needed to change in order for the trailer weights to change.

 

So I don't know about this pin weight change and yes on some trucks that might change the tow capacity but on a 2500 Duramax with 3.73 and in a crew cab Denali, we were instructed that we now needed a 1 ton to tow it and that was confirmed calling the regional service rep as well because I didn't believe it. Maybe it changes in a year but that is the story with the 2016 and what we knew about a 2017 in early August

[Willx]

Edited my post, quoted 17,100 pounds down to 14,900 from memory but that was the double cab change. Change was 16,400 to 13,900 pounds on a crew 4x4. Actually went and checked all the notes as this conversation went on for weeks.

 

Personally I am glade they did this, 1 standard for all trucks makes it so the manufacturers can't simply "claim" better but need to prove it. If I need to tow my trailer with a 1 ton, great happy to comply. Couple hundred bucks difference in the price was all we needed to pay and the ride quality was close.