how else to stiffen things up?

sdeeter19555 · February 7, 2017

Timbrens only need to contact the perch, they barely compress from there. They give a lot less squirm than air bags (personal experience with both). Timbrens add what, "5k pounds" per pair like airbags...and they don't have that habit of pogoing.

I don't feel there is enough difference in carrying capacity between airbags and Timbrens that you would notice. The only thing airbags really have as an advantage is being able to deflate them for an OE ride...

I have no experience with Sumosprings...

I didn't suggest shocks because they pretty much fall out of the equation once the sumosprings/timbren/airbag start carrying the weight. There is too much weight for them to control...even high dollar ones.

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Cowpie · February 7, 2017

Sumosprings only add 1000 lb capacity, Jon? Really? Not in anything I have read about them. Of course, they do come in differing varieties and models for differing applications. Just looked up the Sumo's for my particular pickup. There are 1500#, 2500#, and 4600# versions available. One can choose what works best for their particular application.

And the Sumo's for mine ride directly on the axle. They are starting to compress and resist right out of the gate. No gap for the spring to drop before contact and compression like is typical of Timbrens. A gradual increase in resistance as opposed to "all of a sudden you are there" like with the Timbrens. Sumo's actually fit in the middle ground between Timbrens and Air bags. They have similar properties of each and avoid some of the issues of each. They don't try to be the same thing as either. They are not a hard rubber that is being flexed alone like a Timbren. They are micro cellular polyurethane foam that has millions of air pockets throughout that offer a similar to air bag performance but require no air input from the driver. Like I stated, kind of a middle ground between the two other options. A "install and forget" feature like Timbren, but air type of suspension like an air bag via the micro cellular foam approach. With the added feature that if they are punctured in any way, it does not affect them. Supersprings bored a 1.5" hole completely thru a Sumospring to prove the point.

I suppose air bags are relatively cheap, compared to a lot of things. But since I paid $170 for a set of Sumo's for the back end of my pickup, I am hard pressed to find air bags of any quality that come close to matching that. And to really make air bags convenient, also calls for on board compressor and even self adjusting valves based on vehicle height. Firestones offer the compressor option but only manual adjustment from the seat. Air Lift has not only a compressor option, but load leveling valve that automatically adjusts the pressure in the bag on the fly to keep things right. Even airing up each bag individually based on the load on each bag. Very similar to factory commercial truck air suspension systems. But they are sure proud of their product and it will lighten your wallet considerably going that route. If I was using a pickup for commercial travel trailer pulling from factory to dealers, I could justify going that route. Spending ten times what I paid fro the Sumo's wasn't really a viable option. Since all I do is local heavy hauling in the bed and equipment and dump trailer use where loads are different several times a day, and then, only done infrequently, no real cost benefit to that. So the Sumo's got chosen.

What it really comes down to is that there are a number of different approaches to dealing with the archaic spring suspension system we have. All of them work to varying degrees, but are just bandaids on the problem. With spring suspensions, there is a massive aftermarket in stuff to address the problems in one way or another. When it comes to factory air suspension systems, all you really hear from the aftermarket is crickets because there is no demand for anything to correct suspension problems like springs suspensions need. But until GM pulls it's head out of it's corporate rear end and gets into the 21st century regarding stuff like this, we will be stuck with only regular spring suspensions and not a factory air suspension option.

Edited February 7, 2017 by Cowpie

gmckenzie · February 7, 2017

Looking at the SumoSprings, for the 1500 series, they only add 1000 lbs. But I'm wondering if that matters? I'm looking to help with bouncing and those do look interesting. I'm (slightly) under my payload so adding more than 1000 lbs seems overkill for me, but it's the ride quality I want to improve when towing. My trailer is pretty long (~35 feet) and I've had some interesting drives over poor roads pulling it. For the most part it is fine, but Jasper to Banff was brutal last year.

How much do they impact the ride unloaded?

sdeeter19555 · February 7, 2017

The bouncing is called pogoing...you might try some stiffer shocks. That might help in your case, since you are at your rated capacity.

Again, I know very little about SumoSprings.

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Cowpie · February 8, 2017

Looking at the SumoSprings, for the 1500 series, they only add 1000 lbs. But I'm wondering if that matters? I'm looking to help with bouncing and those do look interesting. I'm (slightly) under my payload so adding more than 1000 lbs seems overkill for me, but it's the ride quality I want to improve when towing. My trailer is pretty long (~35 feet) and I've had some interesting drives over poor roads pulling it. For the most part it is fine, but Jasper to Banff was brutal last year.

How much do they impact the ride unloaded?

You didn't look hard enough. The Sumo's are offered in 1000, 1500, and 2800 lb varieties for the 1500 series pickups. I just looked it up on their site.

They do not negatively impact the unloaded feel or handling. Unlike a more firm type of thing like Timbrens, they are progressive in their resistance as they are compressed. Unloaded, they actually absorb some of the road jolt that goes on. They do not reach maximum resistance until compressed 50%. On most stock pickups, that would equate to right at where the pickup is level under a full load.

Here is a snapshot of the Sumo's offered for the 1500......

Edited February 8, 2017 by Cowpie

Roscopcoletrain · February 8, 2017

Yeah its not Pogo'ing I'm having issues with. It's more so a squirmy being moved around feeling. The trailer is big & tall, and when it moves, the truck moves.

My sumosprings are "Capacity 2500 lbs at 50 percent compression"

sdeeter19555 · February 9, 2017

What load range are those LT tires and are they an AT or MT?

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Roscopcoletrain · February 9, 2017

What load range are those LT tires and are they an AT or MT?

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E rated AT

sdeeter19555 · February 9, 2017

You might just be at the limits of that suspension and truck weight (actual weight of the truck, not capacity).

I was looking at the possibility you were getting tire or tread squirm.

Have you scaled it to know what kind of weight you have on the rear axle? Could it be too light? I run with no WDH, and with a guess of 700 to 800 pounds of tongue weight, I get very little feedback from the camper.

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Roscopcoletrain · February 9, 2017

You might just be at the limits of that suspension and truck weight (actual weight of the truck, not capacity).

I was looking at the possibility you were getting tire or tread squirm.

Have you scaled it to know what kind of weight you have on the rear axle? Could it be too light? I run with no WDH, and with a guess of 700 to 800 pounds of tongue weight, I get very little feedback from the camper.

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I have been over the scale and I've got it set up very well with my WDH. I do believe that Im at the limits for the truck. I was hoping maybe something might just help a bit, snug things up somehow, but more than likely, I think it's just too much trailer from a 1/2 ton.

gmckenzie · February 9, 2017

I have been over the scale and I've got it set up very well with my WDH. I do believe that Im at the limits for the truck. I was hoping maybe something might just help a bit, snug things up somehow, but more than likely, I think it's just too much trailer from a 1/2 ton.

What are the specs on the trailer? Weight, length etc. It does look pretty big, but then so does mine at ~35 feet. Don't have a picture handy.

Roscopcoletrain · February 9, 2017

What are the specs on the trailer? Weight, length etc. It does look pretty big, but then so does mine at ~35 feet. Don't have a picture handy.

32.5 feet long, 7000lbs dry.

gmckenzie · February 10, 2017

32.5 feet long, 7000lbs dry.

Yeah, I'm 8,200 loaded. Scaled at about that weight. I think that is max for the NHT 1/2 ton as it put me right at my payload limit.

Roscopcoletrain · February 10, 2017

when I had it measured it was

Front Axle 3300 lbs

Rear Axle 3760

Trailer axle 6880

Total 13940

Im pretty much at the limits.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Roscopcoletrain

gmckenzie · February 12, 2017

You didn't look hard enough. The Sumo's are offered in 1000, 1500, and 2800 lb varieties for the 1500 series pickups. I just looked it up on their site.

Going back to this, has anyone found a supplier of SumoSprings in Canada that carries the higher duty parts?

I can find the SSR-209-40 on Amazon and other online retailers, as well as at Lordco ($50 more), but I can't find anyone who lists the other 2 that sells to Canada. Looking on Amazon.com, the supplier there does not ship into Canada.

And do I need to worry about it, or just get the 1,000 lb ones? The more I read on them vs. Timbrens, the more I like these and the price seems pretty good.